Higher-End Class A/B vs. Class A Integrateds

@zlone,

That's why I've been questioning the whole Class A thing vs. Class AB.  I had noticed integrated amps at close to $10,000 that were Class AB.  I thought, once you got into that price range they would surly be pure Class A.  

I found out that that's not the case and that there are obviously very rich sounding class AB out there to consider.

@noodlyarm,

I once owned a Krell KSA Pre w/phono.  It was a great pre and one piece of equipment I wish I never parted with.

The K300i sounds very intriguing.  The only thing that turns me off is the fact that it has no volume knob.  That could be something I could get used to.

@boxcarman 

Right! I see a lot of the Hegel's up for sale some around that price or lower and listeners seem to love the Hegel sound.

@audioman58 

My speakers are Sonus Faber Lumina III's.  These will probably be upgraded some time in the future but I'm happy with them for now.

The specs are:  

• Sensitivity: 89 dB SPL (2.83V/1m)
• Nominal Impedance: 4 ohm

My listening room is 13'L x 12'W x 8' H

My listening position is about 7' from the front of the speakers

I do listen loud at times.

@noodlyarm  

I mostly use my remote as well.  Sometimes playing vinyl, I like to lower the volume  with the knob when I get up to change or flip a record but I don't think it should be a deal breaker.

Ok, as far as my friend’s PBN power amp. I asked him and he couldn’t find out much other than it’s the PBN Olympia Mini ( he thinks). I think he’s a little fried from his days of playing in bands in the 80’s and 90’s. From what I’ve been able to find, it is not a class A amp. It’s class AB. It weighs close to 100lbs.

It did sound good to me but was that because I was convinced it was class A at the time or was it that it has more power than what I’ve been using? IDK.

You folks gave me much more to consider as far as an integrated amps go. I feel now, that I can find one that does not have to be Class A and hopefully will be just as satisfying.

@soix

I am presently using the Classe CP-50 pre with the McCormack DNA 0.5 DE. Was trying to keep things cool in the Texas summer.

I may put the tube power amp in soon for a change of pace.

Anyhow, in my original post, I mentioned that I’m looking at moving away from separates and looking to get a nice sounding integrated. The only reason is that I heard a friend’s system where he’s using a PBN power amp (don’t know the model) and he claims it’s class A. I doubt that it’s all class A but I’ve no idea how many watts are class A. I did like the sound though. It seemed more pleasing to my ears. Smooth like going from a well scotch to an 18 yr. single malt. Effortless. And vocals on some recording made the hair on the back of my neck stand up.

That’s why I’m curious as to whether I need to go Class A for that sound or will some Class AB designs fit the bill.

My room is fairly small and I sit fairly close to the speakers.

I listen to mostly Rock and Jazz so yes, I tend to listen loud a lot.

Thanks for all the advice and suggestions.  I realize now that I'm not tied down to class a.   My tubed power amp puts out 40wpc with the EL34 tubes in.  I can get more with the kt88's but I don't seem to need the extra power.

It seems the Krell K-300i puts out supposedly 90 watts class a power so it appears that is pretty much my only option if I want class a power to spare.

After reading some good folks posts, I'm more open to the idea of a smooth sounding class ab integrated that won't sound puny in comparison to a low watt class a amp.

@ronboco 

I could be wrong but I think the Krell K300i is made in the US.  Their lowest model is made in China I believe.

@curiousjim 

Hegel still intrigues me. They're not off my list anyway.  Especially if they will be available for a good price. 😁

Pass is now sounding intriguing as well.  

I just put my Black Ice Audio 3502P tube amp in with EL34 tubes.  After listening with the McCormack DNA 0.5 solid state amp all summer, it sounded warmer but sluggish(?) especially with rock music.  Small Jazz ensembles, acoustic music and vocals sound fine.  

I'm going to try the Gold Lion KT88's in to see if they make much of a difference.  

I'm trying to determine if I need a higher powered integrated than most Class A amps provide.

Update:

I ended up buying a demo unit Kinki Studio EX-M1+ from a small dealer in Michigan.

I’m beginning to feel I made a mistake. I know it’s Chinese but that’s not the reason for my feeling.

The unit was purported to have less than 20 hrs. on it and and I estimate that I may have put an additional 40 hrs. (?). The manual states 300 hrs. for burn-in. I’m not exactly sure how the sound is going to change but as it stands now, I have to say it sounds a bit underwhelming and disappointing.

This version does not have a gain switch. According to the manual the volume adjusted by steps up to 100. To get any decent volume for my relatively small room of 13’L x 12’W x 8’H and sitting approx. 6’ from the speakers I have to put the volume at least 60. Usually even higher.

The Kinki integrated is rated at 215 W rms (8 ohms) 290 W rms (4 ohms) both channel driven. Damping factor of 2000.

My speakers are Sonus Faber Lumina III’s rated at 89db sensitivity and 4 ohm nominal impedance.

To experiment I swapped the Sonus Faber for an old pair of ACI Sapphire III’s that are rated at 90db and 6 ohm, nominal impedance: 4.7 ohms.

Other than sounding different, the ACI’s were basically behaving the same way with the Kinki.

Before, I was using a McCormack DNA- 0.5 power amp with either a Classe Audio CP-50 preamp or Rogue Audio Model 99 Magnum pre. I didn’t have to move the volume up as much to get much volume or excitement out of either of these speakers and the McCormack is rated at 125W rms.

Could it be that the Kinki needs the full burn-in time or is that it sounds so smooth and laid back compared to what I went from that I am not getting very excited while listening? It is dead silent compared to the other combos and I’m picking up some subtle details that I wasn’t aware of before, unless that’s just because I’m listening more intently/critically since the amp is new to me.?

I’d appreciate any words of advice. I know one poster here owned the Kinki, albeit an older version I think. I recall him speaking of a gain switch which as I mentioned before, this version does not have.

Thanks,

Nick

It seems the KInki may be better suited to a speaker with higher efficiency and more like an 8 ohm load.

The reviews I’ve read, all very positive btw never mentioned it having a problem driving certain speakers. In retrospect, perhaps I should have paid more attention to the speakers they were using in their review.

That said, I wouldn’t mind owning a pair of speakers that are easy to drive with almost any amplifier. It would give me more options.

I bought my Sonus Faber speakers at Audio Concepts in Dallas.  They sell Luxman, D'Augostino, Boulder, McIntosh, Naim and Moon by Simaudio.

I'll have to try and see if they can set me up with a direct comparison using my speakers.

I appreciate the replies. I have heard a friend’s Class A PBN amp (not integrated). I liked the sound I heard but yes, it would nice to do a direct comparison..

I don’t know how much power it puts out in Class A and I asked him and he doesn’t know.

It’s a huge, heavy amp with a single meter that I think indicates current not db’s.

He has money and just buys stuff. LOL!

I’m looking to spend no more than $5000 preferably used.

@jeffreyw 

Thanks for the advice.  I may want to upgrade my speakers sometime and I would like an amp that can drive my future speakers without having to upgrade the amp ... again.