FWIW, according to Wikipedia conductivity chart, I read electrical conductivity of Nickel, the main metal element in Mu-MEtal, to be about 1/4 that of copper or silver. The second largest metallic component, Iron, has even lower electrical conductivity. |
For example, I used DSP for my work office system. It started out sounding OK but not realistic, just like before HD wires in the shill cases here. Then I applied the DSP to try to get it to sound the way I know it can. DSP made things 300% better. Clearer, detailed and more dynamic. A night and day transformation. The DSP I used was inexpensive computer software, that already may come bundled into many peoples home computer so no cost there to at least try and see. |
...forgot the smiley face...:^) |
Tbg,
Shilling might be unseemly but is legal in these parts it seems. |
DD,
What amp, speakers, source devices? It sounds very interesting. Can you post a system listing with a couple pictures? Thanks.
Ideals001! |
Tbg, yes.
And fix your system link here while we are at it. It's broken! |
tbg,
Sorry if my posts continue inconvenience you.
You can continue to smugly dismiss them and I will continue to do my thing. It is what it is.
I usually find yours interesting at least in that you are very open to new things. Except opposing viewpoints that is. Ironically I'm not sure we even have one in this case? Oh well. I suppose you have all the bases covered on your own so who needs any opposing views? Certainly not you it would seem.
How much have you invested in the HF products in your system again? unfortunately there can be no value judgements without a cost factor.
Always happy to discuss such things. We are all pretty irrelevant in the grand scheme of things I would say. |
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" We are all pretty irrelevant in the grand scheme of things I would say."
Actually I can only speak for myself in this regard, not others. All opinions are relevant that are offered in good faith and in consideration of all the facts, not just those that might be most convenient for the argument at hand. |
"Were you the fat kid in grade school? "
Pitiful comment. I would not touch any product you endorse with a ten foot pole. That's a fact! |
In all fairness, all high end expensive wire makers have a job to do to convince some to buy. They only need a few believers to make money though I would bet. Its a fact that profit margins on wires most people would buy are huge. Accessories like wires have ALWAYS been where audio dealers make the most money. Electronics the least, and speakers somewhere in between. I know this from having worked in multiple shops that were part of larger chains years ago. It was a well documented FACT back then. All items we sold had cost and retail price listings that indicated which items were most profitable and not. I doubt it has changed much over the years, except to have been taken to new extremes in regards to asking price.
When one has a 5 or 6 digit system to start with , it seems to only make sense that some reasonable percentage be spent on the wires, power conditioning, etc. HF offers unique products in that category no doubt. I am happy for those who can afford such systems and enjoy them. The one or two pure intolerant shills on this thread are probably NOT doing the company any favors though. |
Trav, populist viewpoints don't hold much water when it comes to "high end". Good luck! These are hallowed grounds.... |
Trav it is a different design using an alloy designed to support the magnetic conduction principle of these wires. It might lower signal levels in some cases as related as part of that. But I don't think it would be fair to label them defective by design. All designs have advantages and disadvantages. |
Magnetic or otherwise it still must conduct electricity.
I would think the material used as the conductor would allow one to determine the expected resistance in that resistance or conductivity parameters of various materials including copper silver and metals like nickel and steel that would be used in a my metal like alloy are well known.
In the case of these products one might even measure with and without magnets to compare if the magnets were removable. Or if the alloy used is known then the difference between its textbook resistance and what is measured could be attributed to the advertised magnetic conduction effect.
Or if they just work and sound great then it really does not matter how they measure I suppose. |
I find my system almost always sounds different, sometimes for the better when I change most any wire. Some changes more so than others. But its only a fine tuning/tweak compared to getting all the rest right. So I would say it can and often does matter but can only help out to a limited extent if the rest not right. It can be important but not as important as the rest. YMMV. Plus any change can only be judged compared to what came before it. So not all changes are created equal. many wires might sound more similar than different. A lot often has to do with gauge, materials used to some extent, and noise shielding characteristics, assuming everything is hooked up well/properly in all cases. Then there is magnetic conduction which is clearly a totally different beast. |
"Mapman, pictures don't make sounds."
Really? Can't argue that one for sure!
Tbg, you must be DDs guardian angel.
I really don't doubt DD has a nice setup. Just making a point. Brag on DD. LEt us know when it stops sounding better every day. Then we can all plan a trip to come hear the holy grail of all customized home audio systems. But it would be a haul for me to Texas were I invited so I'd rather do it just once and know I am not missing out on anything more.
TBG, by the way I noticed you posted a system recently. I do like it. I have no doubt it sounds really good as well. |
Shame to think of all those really good really expensive high end systems that according to the will never reach their full potential without magnetic conduction. There is always something better, no matter what one has.
Its the audiophile curse. Like vampires are cursed to crave blood, audiophiles may be cursed to always make their system better. As opposed to music lovers that are probably more likely to be satisfied at some point.
Its a tough job but somebodies got to do it. :^) |
Hopefully it will not offend anyone if from now on I refer to Geofkait as "Jesus of Tweaks". "CD tweaks" at a minimum.
Unfortunately many of the zealots are turning to computer audio and ripping these days so there is need for a new messiah there I think. :^) |
Hey its a high fidelity thread so the sky is the limit here. |
Reading the material on what the magnets do on the vendor's site, I'm guessing what the magnets do to the circuits they are attached to probably takes more time to play out fully than other cables. |
What is this realism that is referred to?
How can anyone measure how close to it they are?
Having heard many live events of many kinds in many venues over the years, including various live instruments at home, I know that each sounds different based on many factors as do systems meant to reproduce recordings.
I can understand someone perceiving their rig sounds better than before or not but not how to measure % of realism.
If I had to I'd say mine sounds 98% real. Of course teh recording alone has a lot to do with how real or not something might sound.
Also most of us especially those who are older have limits to their hearing well under the 20khz HF upper bound that most systems have attempted to reproduce with various degrees of success since the beginning of hifi. Assuming a component does extend beyond to start, how can any of us hear it? Are you asking your dog?
Sounds like a bunch of meaningless hyperbole to me with absolutely nothing concrete to substantiate it even possible.
Just spend more money on HF products and one can extend teh limits of nature itself I suppose.
What a bunch of c--p. |
"Mapman, I read you last post over and over but it still made no sense."
Oh well. At least I tried.
What don't you understand about it? I'd be happy to try and shed some light. |
Tbg,
I would like to hear but have no doubt it sounds very good.
One could argue that those things are heard on most good systems although never exactly the same way on any two. Personal preferences are of course a factor. That's why you can't know what you like best until you hear it. |
I will assume it sounds very very good to you and most likely would to me as well given the investments in both time and money that have been put into it. So would most systems in these parts where others have made similar investments in the interest of achieving good sound.
Hyperbole is not meant to be taken literally. So why use it? Chances are greater that it will lead others to disappointment. Its good for sales and advertising perhaps but that's about it.
Just saying. |
"it's always interesting reading how different people have different perceptions on similar topics"
That's for sure. As long as the listeners are human, perceptions are one part of the equation that can never be factored out. That's what helps make it an art beyond just an exercise in technology. |
Stereo sounds great. Have not changed a thing. Just a lot of time enjoying the music. |
It's an open forum. Best to just enjoy things in private if people's responses are bothersome. The same as one would normally do for most things.
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"@mapman go use your chicken wire and play with your etch-a-sketch. Grown folks are talking!"
If you say so. |
There is a difference between ones system that others cannot hear or know by reading a forum like this and what is written in the forum, which is seen by all.
FWIW. The "you can't hear it so your comments do not matter" argument really does not apply to what one writes here. We can all read and make of it what one will.
Just saying... |
No comment.
Enjoy the music! |
When do the field coil versions come out? |
Tbg,
You definitely have a "laboratory" mentality it seems when it comes to this stuff. Nothing wrong with that, but realize that a lot of what happens in a laboratory ends up being of little value to most.
I disagree that we know so little about producing lifelike sound at home. Come hear my system. That is my goal and I think I have achieved it pretty well.
I'm just not so pessimistic that this stuff is as hard as it is often made out to be. The devil is all in the details. Labratories might produce some new recipes still, but will they really be any better than the ones those in the know already are using?
Just some food for thought. Laboratories is where most all new innovations do start out after all. But it usually takes some time for the good stuff to get adapted by the masses. The average music lover would probably be wise to not jump on every new thing that finds its way fresh out of a lab. |
Dd becomes the star child.....this weekend....be there,
Segue way to also sprach Zarathustra.........
πΆπ¦π§π·π―π’π₯π₯π½π½π½π½ |
"How does one describe going from the greatest sound ever imagined to incredibly superior to that???"
I think you said how earlier: acid trip maybe???? |
TBG,
No doubt it is "different" in concept and execution. A different approach has potential to yield different results. Reminds me of Walsh drivers in that regard. Or the DNM ICs that I like. OR the Pangea power cords that I use that are less radical in design but seem to do what is advertised ie lower noise levels via shielding and provide excellent value for the results achieved I find in practice.
Many ways to skin these cats. We all hear differences all the time trying different things.
More power to those who are satisfied with their results.
Fplanner obviously has put some good thought into his system overall. That means a lot.
Shilling and raving on a product with no context around it means little. At least to me.
Where's the beef, as they say? FPlanner appears to have some. So one has to take that seriously. Nicely done!
Words alone mean little though especially when stakes are higher which they are with products like these.. |
Is it out of bounds to discuss the actual measurable electrical properties of the product to try to understand things better? Especially in the context of trying to understand a reported issue?
If so fine. It's not worth rattling swords about. We all like what we like. In the end nothing else really matters. π |
"In the past 2 years, mind-blowing improvements have been a regular occurrence here at Tweak Central.
Two months ago a regular listener (and audiophile) said my system was the best it's ever been. Since then I've made at least half dozen large improvements. It sounds better this week than last and I have some big improvements planned for this week and next. (and next month, and during the summer and next fall)......"
Great. Of course , we see none of any of this to support your bragging rights so you could have a 90s vintage JVC boombox with some magnets stuck to it for all we know.
A posted system with pics and supporting info would be useful. Then at least we know there is something more to what you say than a bunch of hot air. Otherwise, that's basically all I can discern from it. |
"Because they are so diffuse in their sound presentation, I am not surprised that you can't tell much difference much finer distinctions that quality cabling brings."
That's not what I meant. I can tell a difference in most cases. In some cases the differences are more marginal. I hear the differences with all my speakers including OHM.
The more recent OHM Walshes within the last 15 years or so are the ones that have best imaging and soundstage. Gen 1 from the 80s were more diffuse as you describe. They are not as sensitive to placement as many but careful placement does make a difference. As does everything upstream if things are working as they should. |
"I love music when it is involving, visceral, emotional, moving.. otherwise
the car radio would be enough."
I would agree.
The interesting thing is that surely no two people are the same in terms of what it takes to become emotionally engaged with the music. It's even possible I suppose that some might not have the makeup to ever accomplish that. Its an interesting topic. What does it take? Surely largely a function of teh individual themselves as much as any technology or gear used to make music. |
Does Rick send people who does not say nice things about his products to the cornfield?
That would explain it.
Sorry couldn't resist that one. I'm a bad man.... π |
Don't let all those magnets deflect your sense of humor, ok? π |
It's GOOD that Rick made some adapters that a poor Shlub like me might even afford. It's very good!!!π |
