High expectations when listening to an orchestra

Correct (natural) instrumental timbre and micro dynamics are the two aspects of reproduced orchestral sound most important for me. Putting those aside, one of the most commonly cited problems with reproduced orchestral sound is the inability of sound systems to reproduce the grand scale /size and power of an orchestra going full tilt. Of course, a large part of the blame needs to be placed on the limitations of most listening rooms’ acoustic capabilities; this, due to size, dimensions and/or poor treatment. Some of the resulting distortions of realistic sound staging have been described in the posts here.

It has always been interesting to me that the most realistic renderings of orchestral sound staging and the RELATIVE sense of orchestral power has been from sound systems that present the recording on a smaller scale. In most average sized audiophile listening environments, it is the smaller systems, those that give a mid to rear of the hall perspective that seem to create the most realistic illusions of orchestral scale and placement (side/side and front/back) of instruments. Some systems with speakers that may be too large for the room seem to create individual instrumental images that are too large within the size of the overall acoustic presented; with the result being a feeling of instrumental sections and individual instruments sounding crowded and without enough (natural) space/air between them. This creates a feeling of a kind of acoustic overload independent of volume level. Worse still, it can damage the music. Orchestral music in particular is conceived by composers with the blending of individual orchestral colors very much in mind. Instrumental sounds need to travel some distance to the ear before the individual timbres blend correctly to essentially create a new sound. I am not sure why, but the obvious negative effects of of mic placement which is often too up close seems to be compensated for to at least some degree by speakers that are appropriately sized, or have appropriate dispersion characteristics for a given room. ,

This is one of the reasons that why I love my Stax F-81 electrostatics so much and am willing to live with their limitations in the available volume and bass power departments. Very realistic and detailed mid hall rendering of soundstage and much smaller scale than my Maggie’s and, most important to me, extremely natural midrange and top end.

**** and let me tell you that much talent produces a vibe and you feel it and for the first time in my life it was like who the f--k cares about the sound it’s the fricken ..... ****
Yup!

hilde45, apology if I misinterpreted what you wrote.  Your comment seemed to me to suggest what I wrote.  Obviously, I was mistaken.

hilde45, they are not opposed at all.  So, you are suggesting that since absolutely perfect realism cannot be achieved that one shouldn’t at least try to get a good part of the way there?  For me, realism means correct (or, as close to it as possible) reproduction of the timbre of instruments (tone and texture) and nuanced dynamic expression.  Soundstaging effects come in a distant third in my order of priorities; they may be more important to others; but, for me those have little to do with the musical content.  It is obvious to me that some pieces of equipment and/or combinations of equipment do a much better job of reproducing timbre and subtle dynamic changes than do others.  So, according to you, since perfection in those areas can never be achieved one should simply not bother at all and throw in the towel.  Makes no sense to me.  Although, this would explain why some systems that I have heard sound so bizarre and so far removed from the sound of live music.   

I’m tempted to ask: “And this is news?”

I guess I just did. Of course it won’t sound like the real thing. Who would expect that it would? It’s a recording. I do, however, find it surprising that some are so willing to give up and not strive for as much realism as possible. A good orchestral recording can do a pretty darn good job of conveying the musical content; if not all of the sonic fireworks as heard live.

**** Have you ever heard a 12-year-old, who cannot reach the pedals without a booster play Gershwin’s Rapsody in Blue so well that you want to throw every version in your collection away? These kids are astounding. ****

No. I agree, some of these kids today truly are astounding....for their age. But, play so well that they make me want to throw away every version in my collection away? Throw away my Previn/London? Or, my Thibaudet/Baltimore? Or, Bernstein/NY? Or......? Not a chance in hell. Of course, if the sound of the recording were more important to me than the playing, then yes. Thankfully, superlative playing can easily survive the inevitable sonic compromises of the recording.