High end stereo preamps? Worth it?


So we know the higher end preamps don’t include dacs and phono stages.  Highly desirable noise free devices.  I hear wonderful things about these preamps, Luxman, Accuphase, Audio Research, etc.

Are they as good as represented? 


emergingsoul

Showing 4 responses by itsjustme

@sokogear-@itsjustme - no - I was talking about going straight from a phono stage to a power amp.
Not clear what you are saying "no" to.  Precisely what i was talking about.  RIAA --> Power amp is "no preamp".

No matter just a bit confused.

Ah the "great preamp vs no preamp" question.
So how can anything be better than zero distortion?  Its tough, but possible in one of three ways.

1. It adds a euphonic distortion that you like.. nothing wrong with this, its what a Piano's sounding board does.
2. Its gain allows other components to work within their ideal range
3. It provides needed impedance matching
So is not crazy, but in an otherwise well balanced and engineered system (huge caveat in real life) its a tall order
I use one. Of course i have prototypes stuffed everywhere :-)
G
Worth is a subjective question.  Relative worth may be easier to deal with. I always ask the question "if i have $1000 to spend, where do i get the biggest benefit".  That depends, basically, on where the biggest problems are. And its exactly why i'm leery of most expensive tweeks, including cables and similar doo-dads.

Speakers traditionally have the greatest compromises. Unfortunately you need not only money but tolerance for size to move up with speakers.
IMO sources (turntables with carts) and DACs are also ripe for improvement. And both are fairly complex so it make sense.  As i work on DAC designs, the number of small to medium pitfalls is large. power. grounding. Isolation. Filtering. Blah, blah.  never-ending.
The best amps and pre-amps ought to be nearing perfection.  nearing, not there.  Sadly, many are not.  But the declining marginal returns are in full force over $2k for pre-amps IMO. Amps are more complex to answer since some speakers, in some rooms demand lots of power - and power you buy by the pound to a degree (transformers, output devices, heat sinks, and a chassis to hold all that heavy stuff!)
Right now i have a prototype integrated making the rounds. Its ~ 40w/ch/8 ohms and is targeted to sell for $2000-2500 "depending". It has qualities where it is superior to and others where it is slightly inferior to, $7-11k worth of separates. 

Now, nothing i design will "wow" anybody with lots of seductive distortion.  That's not my thing.  I want it to disappear, erring toward "never be obnoxious". So if what you want is a ton of euphonic harmonics, go for it, but that's a 'whole different kettle of fish.
But the best answer is - listen and trust your ears. As a great sommelier once told me when i asked the best way to really learn about wine: "pop a lot of corks".
Happy drinking.
G


Is anyone aware of these types of components, and have you heard them, and are any available at a more reasonable price level?
Funny, if you are asking about an integrated amp, with a direct plug-in RIAA option, it's my current design project.   (also a direct plug in discrete headphone amp for "personal audio".  Moving slowly due to other "paying the bills" projects. On the other hand it is (targeted to be...) fully remote, in part because the approach i am taking ought to simplify the signal path down to a pair of resistors. And i want remote capability and presume others do too.

Target is ~$2500 + RIAA. Not sure if you call that reasonable. And, of course, i don't count pricing o performance chickens until they hatch. Could be a colossal dud - but the basic unit, sans remote capabilities, is floating around getting independent appraisals. SO far, so good compared to ~ $10k and up combinations.
yep simpler is (generally) better.
One caveat, as a noted above, all that assumes that the simplified system remains properly impedance matched between stages and operates within its optical range. This is not always true.
G