High End is Dead?


Browsing used audio sites such as Audiogon and the Marts, high end gear ads are dominated by several dealers. Non-dealer ads are usually people trying to push 15+ year old off-brand junk at 60-70% of MSRP (when they were new). They don't sell anything. You could slash Wilsons, Magicos, etc, 50% off retail and no one will buy them.

No one buys if it costs more than 1k. It's not that they're not interested -- the ads get plenty of views. It's that the asking prices are just way over the ability of buyers to pay. Fact is, if you see a high end piece for sale it's probably by a dealer, often times trying to push it at 15% off retail because its a trade in, but also often they are taking a good chunk off the price 30, 40 sometimes 50% off. They can be famous brands with a million positive reviews. No buyers.

Are we just poor, and that's all there is to it? 
madavid0

Showing 3 responses by kthomas

I don't know about HEA, but the effectiveness and utility of this site as a way to buy and sell used gear has greatly diminished in recent years.  The number of daily ads is way down, and if it wasn't for all the repeat dealer ads, it would be a trickle compared to the "old days".  

I'm not sure what this means.  Maybe that used audio is still a vibrant market, but it happens somewhere else?  Maybe that after relentless luxury upgrading over the past few decades, and all the new competing luxury items to buy, that people are happy with what they've acquired already?  Maybe that the prime market for HEA is aging and worried more about a secure later life?

There is no doubt in my mind that the market has changed considerably, that there are far fewer B&M dealers than 20 years ago, and that the high end of high end has moved to the stratospheric.  I think the notion of HEA being "dead" is just semantics - lots and lots has changed, but what area of life hasn't?
I don't know how I'd measure the health of HEA.  The number of dealers with real shops is way down in my experience.  The used market it much less vibrant than it used to be based on my awareness of sites that sell used HEA gear.  The number of people I personally know who have any interest in gear, over multiple decades, has always been either zero or one, so not much indication there.

HEA shows seem to be doing well.  The magazines seem healthy and relevant.  The amount of people designing and producing high-end gear seems to be as robust as ever.  

Unless one wants to define the specific criteria, I don't think you can say whether it's thriving, dying, or in-between.  It's definitely changing, but so is everything else.
@michaelgreenaudio
@fleschler 

Really nice posts!  I really enjoyed all of them.

My view of the state of any of this is just through personal experience.  I live in the midwest, so I don't know how that colors my perception.  It certainly limits the number of B&M audio salons.  As in zero in all of Kansas City.  I grew up in Lawrence, KS, home of Kief's, which appears to have gone out of business after decades of success.

Music would appear to be thriving, both live and recorded.  I could go to an excellent concert 150-200 nights a year if I wanted.  No shortage of extremely talented musicians.  Access to 40-50 millions songs at the touch of a button.  More "audiophile" recordings available that I'd love to listen to than I'll ever get to, with easy mechanisms to catalog and retrieve.

Audio would appear to be thriving.  I run into approximately the same number of people who are proud of and excited about their Sonos system, and there appear to be numerous competitors who have come out with compelling offerings.  Bluetooth speakers, I guess the modern boombox in some ways, are everywhere, and people seem to enjoy carrying their libraries around on their phone and be able to play them back almost anywhere they are.  It seems like music has become an important aspect of peoples' lives at least to the extent it was back in the day.  And, while I sometimes offer up that you don't have to spend a lot to get good sound, I always tell people that what I'm most interested in is whether they like to listen to music, in any setting and playback method, and what they like.

HEA seems more or less as prevalent (or not) as ever, albeit the top end seems to have gone up in price by an order of magnitude.  I enjoyed @ghasley in his description of the audiophile stereotype, but I hope he doesn't know too many people like that :-)  I've never had a good friend that was into gear, and I've only ever had a few acquaintences who enjoyed it.  So, today seems just like 30-40 years ago to me. 

I recently moved to a new house that has a large, nice area in the lower level that I've set up exactly how I want it.  I've never been a tweaker, but I do believe excellent gear sounds way better than modestly priced gear, and you need the space set it up so the physics can do their thing.  It has a huge TV integrated into the setup, and everyone I show it to tells me it looks like a blast and they'd love to have it.  None of them are saying that because of the specific gear.  In any case, it's a completely different physical experience to listen on "the big rig".  I don't know if it will ever convert anyone to say, "how do I get that", but that's not my goal.  I like to listen to it, and honestly, while I love having my wife listen with me (and she does regularly), I don't want to talk for stretches of time, and I don't want to worry about whether it's too loud, etc.  It's perfect for me because I really, really enjoy it all.

As long as music is an important aspect of peoples' lives, (HE) Audio will do just fine.