The Question:
It appears Tmsorosk is asking why do high efficiency speakers have poor bass when compared to low efficiency speakers..
The answer;
Because all high efficiency speakers have an uneven bandwidth when being driven. In order to have good fequency balance from top to bottom and good dynamics you always end up losing some efficiency..
There are exceptions , there always are, IMO to have all 3 will require multiple (5+) drivers, no 2 driver system Will do it.
By high efficiency, I'm describing speakers over 94db/2.83v/m (anechoic)
Regards, |
Timlub,
The VMPS and the Legacy have multiple drivers so i can see them being able to achieving all 3. Klipsch ? I don't think so...
Regards, |
The latter will probably remain linear to a far higher SPL than most similar-sized low-efficiency home audio woofers.
-Audiokinesis
Please define Low efficiency,
Have to disagree here, most domestic homes speakers ( good ones) will not have any issues with power induced linearities at domestic listening levels.
regards, |
It will take a multiple driver system to have 90+ db sensitivity and have good bass.
Regards, |
Hello Tim,
I'm sure that speaker was not 97 or 99 db 1w/1m @ 30 hz or even 50 hz, very unlikely. Now put it in a 2 way system where it's bandwidth is as high as 500-700 hz, there is no way it will maintain that kind of sensitivity at 30 hz without somekind of EQ. compensation.
If you want to do it right and with low distortion it would require multiple bass drivers IMO, can it be done without , yes and draw the kind of comments mentioned by the OP...
Regards, |
Take a look, then say "ok way". -Timlub
Huh? OK WAY... LOL...
Regards, |
Tim,
"
AAC Acoustic Society Applications of Composites, now owns the brand Audax took over the manufacture of certain models. We will show you very soon on this site"
I might still have a few Audax manuals from way back when they used to supply us with drivers. I'm sure that model is listed, easy to model what you say ...
Interesting, 98-99 db output at 30 Hz/M/W and flat to 500 hz ?
Let me see if i can find those manuals....
regards, |
TImlub, read what i asked, was it flat from 30hz- 500hz, it was not, so why all the vitriol and condescension in your response, is this how you want to have a technical discussion.
Good grief ..... |
Thanks Atmasphere and my original statement was that it would have to be a multiple driver system not a 2 way for it to work and have good bandwidth..
regards, |
Atmasphere, I'm not disputing what you say about the TAD system, it is a multiple driver system not a 2 way, go back and look at my original response, i said the correct way is with a multi-driver system , no one driver is going to go from 30-500+ hz IMO and still produce high sensitivity it would also produce 2 much distortion IMO.
The OP wanted to know why weak bass, this is what we are attempting to discuss not bashing, but we do have a few insecure text book nimrods on board who believe we all should be Horn Borgs and any disagreement is bashing or hating, of course present company is excluded .. :) |
Dan does your horn system have bigger woofers than your Aerial? |
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But more recently I have heard some field-coil powered 15" drivers that are even faster and more transparent, and cover the same range yet are more like 98 or 99 db -Atmasphere
Interesting and thanks for the info and response
Regards, |
Wes, absolutely! :-)
The Aerials use a 10" woofer, and that damn port. The midbass has a 15" driver and the bass uses an 18" driver.
I understand that field coil works the best down on the low side. Some say it is the best bass possible. I haven't been fortunate to hear this yet, but I've heard that it is fast, dynamic, and detailed. And way above my paycheck. :-)Dan_ed
Dan,
Precisely what i had suggested , multiple drivers is the way to go IMO, i have no doubt in what you have described, have fun ...
regards,
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01-27-11:
Hi Unsound,
Its all perception my friend.
I think of low as 82 to 86
mid as 87 to 91
mid-high as 92 to 94
high as 95 + -Timlub
I would be in agreement here and efficiency mean different things to different topologies, a linesource for eg, 88 db would be very efficient IMO with a linesource after factoring the typical 9-12ft listening distance . |
Duke , it does seem to me that you are discussing speakers designed for corner placement, if not how would this apply when speakers are setup and voiced away from the walls.
regards, |
Isn't Bose doing the same thing with his 901, he uses the walls to great effect.
regards, |
Personally and absolutely speaking, I have never heard a sealed enclosure sound better than vented, now if you are running tube gear then there is some advantage in using a sealed enclosure. |
Duke,
Bass localization is detectable indoors, get the math wrong and you will know, phase is absolutely critical.
regards, |
Hello Roscoeiii
Could you tell us the speaker ?
regards, |
Hello Unsound ,
Are you talking acoustic or time , the rise time on a sealed cabinet is slower than that of a reflex, compare the square wave response.
Now if running tubes, subjectively there is some argument, tubes have poor damping and hence very little bass control to speak off , a sealed enclosure might be an advantage here, TL too , due to the loading.
regards, |
Phase is audible in the bass region only to the extent that it impacts frequency response. So when you hear a difference after adjusting the relative phase of your subs, or their distance relative to the mains, what you are hearing is the effect on the frequency response. - Audiokinesis
Ok Duke ... LOL, Hence Bass localization.
Now if you move the woofer outputs closer to mid ceiling the effect will be minimized to almost nothing.
Bass column-circa 1988
Regards, |
It was certainly the case for me that an Atma-sphere S-30 gave me much improved bass over the solid state amp (Pass Aleph 30) I had previously, which had a much higher damping factor. With my 96 dB efficient drivers in a ported box, the Aleph overdamped my bass. -Roscoeiii
Roscoeiii, Are you saying the S30 had more bass or improved Bass?
Atmasphere:
The vented box will need an amp with good bass control to sound proper, especially after roll off.
I cannot see the bass from tubes having more control, well actually never heard that before, i know yours are OTL's and most tubes are not , but your amplifiers do have a high output impedance, based on such i would prefer to run your amplifier with 16 ohm bass speakers, which will half your output power, but allow better control and less distortion due to impedance mis-match.
A question , any reason why 6LQ6 tubes are no longer being used today..
regards,
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Hello Atmasphere,
what's the story regarding 6LQ6 tubes, any reason why they are no longer being used ? |
