Help me understand "the swarm" in the broader audiophile world

@northman
Others have indicated valid possible answers to your question regarding DBAs being (or rather not being) offered at dealers.

So I will just share with you my experience with the Swarm.

My first listening room had a low ceiling and was 10 x 12 minus closets. Of the many subs I tried, none could contribute quality bass response.
As soon as the sub volume was high enough to hear some bass, it was boomy, ringy, etc.
It was like everything was being overwhelmed.

Just over a year ago I asked about a subwoofer solution on this forum and found out about the DBA. Knowing there was absolutely no way I could place 4 subs on the floor in that small room, I decided to pass on it.

Then, I saw a thread about placing one or more of the subs up high facing the ceiling. Not for aesthetics or to save floor space.
The reason was that any ceiling facing subs will contribute to dispersion in the vertical plane.

The next day, I called Duke at AudioKinesis, had a great conversation and ordered a Swarm.

I placed 3 of the subs up high on metal shelving units facing the ceiling and one on the floor next to my desk supporting my lamp.

The one sub on the floor, with such a small footprint is the ONLY additional component taking up space.
AND, it is smaller than your typical sub.

The added storage gained from the metal shelving units actually helped organize some gear while acting as diffusers in each front corner.

The sound honestly amazed me.

I immediately noticed two things.

First:
At most any reasonable volume level, I heard more detail from cellos, bass guitars, etc. This greater detail also extended up into the midrange.

Second:
The sound stage got bigger and fuller.
The holographic (3D?) effect was more convincing.

The speakers I regularly rotate are:
KEF LS50s, B&W 801 Matrix S2s, Ologe 5s, Magnepan LRS and Harbeth SHL5+40th Anniversaries.

Music: mostly classical, jazz and some rock.

Volume level: varies quite a bit


These are 5 significantly different speaker designs.
With the DBA, each of the 5 speakers provided tight, fast and accurate bass along with the bigger soundstage and greater detail.

I have recently moved to a house with a bigger listening room (14 x 16). While this room was being finished, I set up my system in a smaller room (12 x 15).

I am now in the finished larger room and now have 2 subs on the floor.
In all 3 rooms, with all 5 speakers, the DBA noticeably raised the performance in the above mentioned ways.

Interestingly, the DBA provided the greatest percentage of improvement in the smaller room.

I then read some more about the multiple bass source concept and discovered there is science behind why this is so.

Thought it was just my initial excitement.

Hope this helps you with your decision!

@mapman

That’s a nice collection of speakers you are rotating.

What determines which ones get played?

I have ls50s. Interested in your impressions versus others.

Thanks.

Other than having fun swapping around gear, nothing really determines which get listened to.

But the Harbeths are what I listen to most often.

However, impressions are easy to describe.

The LS50s are noticeably the best at imaging.
They project the smallest soundstage on their own but not far from the rest except for the B&Ws and especially the LRS.

The LRS is also more airy and enveloping.
Sounds a little faster than the LS50s.
Less accurate imaging.
These only have about 40 hours so may still be breaking in?

The Ologe5 is a different animal.
3 tweeter array in each main projects the widest sweet spot.
Non parallel cabinet walls.
More relaxed than the LS50s. Perhaps better for jazz/classical.
A little taller and wider soundstage.
Not nearly as accurate imaging as the LS50s.
Despite the two bigger drivers, the LS50s punched nearly as hard.

These are now being used as my left and right front HT mains in the living room.


The B&W 801 Matrix S2s just have this accuracy and flatness beyond my other speakers with the Harbeths being the possible exception.
But nothing I have can touch these when it comes to feeling the dynamics. The room really pressurizes with them.
Really big soundstage.

The LS50s sound much smaller and less neutral.


The Harbeths have greater extension above and below where the LS50s can go.
This is an extremely neutral speaker. Probably comes closest to the LS50s with accurate imaging.

Something about the sound though is just uniquely inviting.
Not sure how to describe it but the midrange in particular is intoxicating. The super tweeter makes it almost as open an airy as the LRS.
Overall much deeper and taller soundstage.
Probably one of the best balanced speakers I have ever owned.
Also, has the least coloration of any box speaker I have heard or owned.
The LS 50 comes close in this regard.

I also swap around a Hegel H190, Forte1A, Michael Yee Audio PA-1 and a Bryston BP26 controlling a pair of Ampzilla 2000 Second Edition monoblocks.

Note, the B&Ws really needed the 300wpc monoblocks to shine.
The Hegel was actually not far behind.

So can only provide impressions with the two amps.

The other 4 speakers were fine with any of the amps listed above.

The LS50s had the most performance gains with the DBA.
All that accurate imaging was presented in a taller, deeper, wider an fuller soundstage.

This is a really impressive speaker. With the DBA, it is pretty much holding it’s own enough to be in the regular rotation.

If you are considering any of these other speakers, I would be happy to provide more detailed info, listening impressions, etc.

@tyray
 Then reading more in agon Duke did suggest to the things he told you to do with your subs, then I can't remember if it was Duke on some other reading but 'if you can raise one up towards the ceiling'. What!

Yes, that was Duke who suggested raising one or more subs up towards the ceiling here on agon.

I had decided against the Swarm for my 10 x 12 room until I read the same posting.

It was in that small room that I used a metal shelving unit in each front corner to place a ceiling facing sub with about 4" clearance.

A third ceiling facing sub was mounted on a shelf above and behind my listening chair.

After minimal placement adjustments, I had really great bass response in the small room.

No other single sub worked.  I was literally in a state of awe and shock at how the 4 subs significantly improved my listening experience across different kinds of music at most any volume.

Now in the new house, with a bigger listening room (14 x 17) I have 2 subs on the floor but still have 2 up high facing the ceiling.

I agree with you about being glad you actually tried and elevated a sub.  It really does work!

The ceiling facing subs do noticeably contribute to the vertical plane dispersion. The shelf units in each front corner provide some diffusion and are great for housing gear too!

I have a monoblock at the bottom of each shelf unit which helped streamline the crowded gear rack between my mains.

@tyray 
Thanks!
Yes, I do have the swarm.

I have my mains placed on the long wall with a ceiling facing sub in each front wall corner.

These two subs are on the top of metal shelf units. What's nice is being able to place a monoblock lower down on each shelf.
The shelves also provide some diffusion in each corner.

One floor sub is flush against the right wall facing forward just shy of the first reflection point.
(Duke recommends facing them towards the wall with about 3" clearance.  I figured facing them forward allows them to be closer to the wall)

The other floor sub is flush against the rear wall behind me and to my left.  This sub is facing to my left.

Since the metal shelf units allow for shelf height adjustments in one inch increments, I have staggered the heights of the two ceiling facing subs.

I lowered the left front ceiling facing sub so that it is just a little closer to the ceiling that the floor. 

FWIW - I find that the ceiling facing subs need a bit more than 3" clearance.  I tried facing them away from the ceiling which helped a little.
But lowering the right another 6" and the left another 18" really made a noticeable difference.

I am now considering raising one of the two floor subs up to just under halfway to the ceiling.

Despite the different elevations, Duke's recommendation for reversing polarity on the sub farthest from the mains and removing the port plug on one of the subs in the corner works really well.

Though it is difficult to A/B test due to the time it takes to move a sub, adjust the shelf height and muscle the sub back up on the shelf,
I can hear a tighter and more even integration with the mains.

Can't really describe it other than the music sounding more "correct".
Probably because the two ceiling facing subs, due to their lower heights are closer to me and also my ear height while seated in my listening chair.  

Perhaps, like staggering drivers in some speakers for better time alignment, I am achieving similar results.

Now that I have a second Dayton, the next step will be running two subs off each at 90 degrees out of phase. 

@noble100  
Always a +1!

+1 also to millercarbon for his advocacy in addressing the simple, inexpensive (and at times free) tweaks that most of us tend to ignore.  
I would just add for those out there attempting the sub elevation route to do the crawl method for any subs on the floor first.

In my 9' ceiling 14' x 16' room, I varied elevation of the two ceiling facing subs as a simplified "vertical crawl" method.

Latest interesting experiment has been angling the ceiling facing subs to 45 degrees relative to the ceiling.  

Not sure if this is an accurate description but it seems to have further evened out the tonal balance across the mid to lower frequency range.

There is a bit more realism as well in holographics and venue specific acoustics.  

Also apparent is an increase in sharpness (clarity?) in terms of  instrument location and soundstage height.

Lower midrange to low presence ringing that I noticed before are now significantly reduced.

Working on a ceiling mounted subwoofer isolation system that will allow horizontal and limited vertical placement in any direction.

Hanging 2 or more subs from the ceiling would likely exploit the possible sub placements in a truly 3D manner.