Help me build speaker cables please!
@toddverrone - another very quick burn-in update.. They say "man should learn something every day" So here's what I learned today... - In an earlier post I mentioned the effect of phasing on instrument placement i.e. changing position in the image - what I forgot about was the effect phasing would have on bass - since we all know if you connect the speakers out of Phase then bass suffers So after about 48 hours of burn-in I noticed a marked improvement in bass performance - much more full bodied and much deeper - still very controlled and very dynamic It will be very interesting to hear your observations of the effect of different gauges of signal conductors. If I had to guess I would say the finer gauge would provide better details and more clarity - but it would be just that - a guess I don't know if gauge has an effect on bass performance, since my bass has improved significantly. Gotta love this hobby - especially when things go as planned :-) Chat Later |
Just took another look at signal cables.. they actually look like very good cables, especially for the money. I'm sure you've seen that their silver cables are half stranded silver and half stranded copper, I believe the idea is to help keep the sound relaxed versus having all silver conductors, which can be bright from what I've heard. They're 10awg, which for me, is great. But I'm about to experiment and see whether a large signal cable is best or if it's just the fatness of the neutral that matters. I have heard great things about signal cables, and, if you're not OCD like me and aren't into DIY, they seem like a great solution for speaker cables. |
@JRUNR I've only tried Signal's Silver Revolution power cables, but I was impressed, i.e. for a commercially available product. I've heard good things from other members about their silver IC's, so I would have to believe their speaker cables would right up there. I do know a lot about KLE Innovations (KLEI) products, which are extremely good - the best I've ever auditioned/reviewed. I would highly recommend those - but they are a little more expensive than the Signal Cables products. KLEI are not as big as the likes of Kimber, Cardas, etc, but are seriously better and they are gaining momentum, following some very positive reviews by some serious audiophiles. Take a look at their web site and click on the reviews link... https://kleinnovations.com/ I do actually have their gZero2 and gZero6 speaker cables (both 3 meters) which I plan on selling very soon if you are interested. I've just finished building speaker cables of my own design, which will be replacing both sets of gZero's in my A/V and two channel systems Regards... |
@toddverrone - you know what it's like in this hobby - one past glory funds the next adventure :-) I didn't want to "colour" your own assessment of your cables by stating what I thought about my own DIY Helix cables, but suffice to say, they surpassed the gZero6's by a considerable margin and from what I recall they also outperformed their TOTL zPURITY8 speaker cables I still really like KLEI products and will continue to promote them to people not of the DIY mindset - I just found that my DIY's are better. So yes - I'm selling both sets - gZero2 and gZero6 speaker cables to recoup some of their expense. BTW - you could have knocked me over with a feather when I heard them I hope you experience the same level of performance :-) Cheers |
@williewonka I bought the materials to make some silver helix ICs. Pure Harmony and solid silver with the OCC copper that @steakster posted for the neutral. I'm excited! Did you open up the helix at all after you wound it on the fiberglass dowel? I just made one double 12awg helix and it is surely not open enough to have 1/2" of space all around the signal. I think I'm fine with the spacing as it is, I'm just curious what you did. |
@toddverrone - Oooops! - I was not very clear on this, but I was simply talking about using two conductors the same length and running them side by side with a 1/2" air gap between them The neutral should be wound "snugly" around the signal conductor My apologies P.S. - I just got the bananas, so I can finally finish the cables. Second set is in progress Regards... |
@toddverrone - here;s a link to my Helix Speaker cables construction details http://image99.net/blog/files/d048bbacfce9bcad4a025be804771d9a-76.html Enjoy :-) |
Damn, you're fast! Great write up. I made my first iteration last night. I wound mine by hand.. should have used a drill! The first iteration has the 2 x 12awg silver plated copper in teflon as the neutral and one run of cat 5 cable as the signal. The combined cat 5 equates to 13awg. Next I'll try 12awg Romex as the signal, to compare a signal made from many individual insulated strands to a solid signal conductor. Unfortunately I haven't really had a chance to listen to this first version properly, just a bit last night at low volume. My kids are off school now, so my 6 hours of blissful quiet each day where I could sneak in a listening session are over until August. But what I did hear sounded fantastic.. As of now, I'm planning on 12awg x 2 and 14awg x 2 silver plated copper neutrals on each cable, then a run of 14awg silver in Teflon and a run of 12awg silver in teflon as the signal conductors, so I can biwire. The 14 gauges will go to the mids and tweeters and the 12 gauges will go to the woofers. But, I'm going to experiment a bit with gauge size and whether to go individually insulated strands, stranded, or solid for the conductors. If solid isn't as good, then I'll have to change up my signal conductor plans.. but, as long as I can make it work, I'll biwire. BTW, did you solder the BFAs on? They don't look crimped. Which is nice. |
Man, my amazing wife took the kids out and I’m sitting here listening.. these sound so good! I just want to settle on a final design and build them, but I definitely need to spend the time to find the right geometry & materials. Ah, the endless search for perfection. I will say, though, that I made a pair of jumpers from the silver plated 12awg and some gold plated brass nakamichi banana plugs I had laying around. They sounded ok, but I wasn’t that impressed. I was doubtful of the cables at that point. I decided to take out the bananas and just use bare wire. That made all the difference. I’m looking forward to the silver plated BFAs once I settle on a design.. |
@toddverrone - They get much better after 100 hours :-) BTW - I updated the web site to include my hypothesis as to why they work. It makes sense to me - finally (LOL) http://image99.net/blog/files/d048bbacfce9bcad4a025be804771d9a-76.html The Silver plated BFA's are amazing - but they also took a couple of days to burn-in and reach their best The silver plated 16 gauge Cryo Mil_spec I used for the signal is excellent - I see no reason to move to solid silver for the signal. Enjoy the music :-) |
Man, you and your blog! Chock full of info. It's funny, I found that before I ever got on Audiogon... I did notice that you mixed up your neutral and signal conductors in your parts list. You listed the twisted pair as your signal and the silver plated copper as you're neutral. Which is understandable since you busted that out in a day. Your reasoning for the performance of the helix cables seems spot on. I never thought of the first point.. |
@toddverrone - I’m now getting an incredibly cohesive image with pinpoint placement of artists and instruments now the bananas have burned incompletely. Some tracks that I have used for auditioning include... Hide and Seek.by Imogen Heap - is a track that uses the phasing technique. It has always amazed me at how this track seems to envelope the listener, placing sounds behind my head. But I had noticed that with each cable tried certain reverberations of the image shifted position behind me. - With these cables those reverberations now appear to be centered right between my ears - very unnatural. A bit like wearing headphones. - Is it finally in the correct place? Without hearing the track in the studio system I have no way of knowing - but it makes sense this is the correct position - finally? Is This Love - Bob Marley - perhaps one of the largest images I hear from any studio recording. Instruments that appear to be located quite a distance out side of both speakers. It is also a very dynamic track with extremely fast percussive elements and has some very nice natural sounding reverberations and a very smooth bass line with nice details Papas Calientes - La Chimera - from a very nice album titled Buenos Aires Madrigal - it transports me into another world - I’m sitting in an out door cafe in an Argentine square where the performers are roaming from one cafe to another - it certainly sounds like superb live engineering - but is it?.- who cares :-) Undring - Sigmund Groven & Iver Kleive - is superb live engineering at its best with spectacular spacial acuity that envelopes the listener, But for entertainment, I get a kick out of watching the woofers "dance" at around 10 Hz part way through this track - a testament to the abilities of these cables, the pipe organ and the engineers. There are now so many of these special tracks - just too many to list I hope you are having a similar experience :-) Regards - Steve |
Yeah man, the space that has opened up with these cables! I love electronic music and I've recently purchased an ambient album of particularly good sound quality. The mastering was spot on and the vinyl pressing is impeccable. One track in particular absolutely envelops me in sound now. The artists are lav and purl and the track is 'absorbed serenity'. So good! I'm listening to an old pressing of 'uprising' by Bob Marley now. Thanks for getting me in an irie mood! |
@toddverrone - irie mon ! break out de Red Striiipe :-) How About... The Golden Age of Wireless by Thomas Dolby - a-m-a-z-i-n-g ! Business as Usual by Men at Work - super-fast dynamics and superb clarity Any track by Police and U2 - so crisp All are on vinyl ;-) But the digital stuff sounds great also. I never appreciated just how well recorded Fleetwood Mac is - until now! I’m very glad you are hearing the same improvements as me - especially since you are using different conductors I think it "proves" the geometry is the key "ingredient". - The type of conductor would probably allow/deny small refinements in details. Lav and Pearl - did you get the pink vinyl ? - it’s reeel purrrtie :-) I downloaded the MP# and it sounds pretty good - I’l have to to try get a high res version. Best analogy I can think of - - with my old cables - it’s like drinking filtered tap water - with the Helix cables - you’re drinking flavoured Perrier Chat Later - Steve |
Ha! Yeah, I do have the pink vinyl. It's the only one they did. You should be able to find their stuff on Bandcamp in a variety of download formats including alac and wav. I love Bandcamp for that. Unfortunately I miswired one of the helix RCAs I built. And of course this is the first DIY cable I didn't test, so it killed one of my amps. Which sucks, because I have almost all the parts needed for my speaker cables now.. alas. So it'll be a bit before I can report back. 😛 |
@toddverrone - Ouch! - how did incorrect wiring an IC kill your amp? That's interesting - did it short the input to the amp ? most amps can handle that. Unless you shorted the pre-amp output? Also, doesn't sound as though you were using a Harmony RCA - because it's almost impossible to create an accidental short condition with those (one of the things I really like). Hmmm - what did you do? Finally, I have a Blusound Powernode 2 amplifying my TV, so I gave it the speaker cable upgrade... - These cables really do show just how good the new amplifier designs really are - The Powernode 2 is 50 watt per channel into 8 ohms, class D - into a pair of Tannoy Mecury F4 - 91dB 8 ohms 34Hz - 20kHz Since the Power Node 2 only has an Ethernet cable (for music) and an optical cable for input for from the TV, the only copper cables in the audio pipeline are my DIY speaker cables. Immediately, the dynamics, deep bass performance and bass control improvements were very noticeable. Perhaps the biggest and most noticeable improvement is the clarity. The diminutive Powernode 2 now exerts complete control over the Tannoys with lots of power to spare and the TV sounds the best it's ever sounded, except there are no rear speakers anymore - a choice I made when downsizing the A/V system to fit the new house. Even the shortest Helix speaker cables I have made is on my mini system (around 15" each channel) ,also yields significant improvements. So it does not seem to matter how long you make them - the appear to work very well. Regards... |
Steve - my amp has risen from the dead! And the new ICs sound great! Full story - I was making the helix ICs at 1 am and accidentally soldered the ground to the signal and the signal to the ground. It wasn’t an accidental short in terms of a stay wire touching something it shouldn’t. I just plain screwed up. Upon installation, my system just started making a clicking noise. I pulled the ICs and tested them for continuity, realizing I miswired them. I fixed my mistake and upon reinstalling found that the amp the mistake was plugged into kept dropping out and distorting. There next day it would barely put out any sound. I was ready to buy new monos and thought I’d double check that it was the amp. I put the amp back in the system and it all works fine. I did disconnect everything from the ICEpower board and reinstall it all. I don’t that was what helped, but I don’t care, it works! I’m still listening to them, but initial findings on the helix ICs are incredibly positive. More of the helix magic: less noise, greater clarity, better separation of sound sources. Good stuff! |
@toddverrone - that’s very interesting - sounds as though pushing the signal onto the neutral rail of the amp caused some issue - normally it only causes an out of phase condition - i.e. bad image and poor bass. Anyhow, glad to hear nothing in the system was damaged and it’s up and running and sounding good. Remember, burn-in takes a while - +200 hours to get the smoothness these cables can offer. Right now I’m finding with the speaker cables on my Powernode 2 (the A/V system) - the system is sounding very bright - almost to the pint of appearing "brittle". But my two channel system is telling me this too will pass - it is very smooth (+250 hours of playing) Did you finalize the wire you are using on the speaker cables? Keep me posted on the conductors you settle on and how it sounds once you have some hours playing. BTW - I just looked at your system (nice photos and very nice components) I think I spotted a digital cable? - The Helix IC’s with the Harmony plugs can also be used as a digital SPDIF cable - they do not suffer from the digital glare as some normal digital cables do - it’s all to do with the impedance of the Harmony RCA’s eliminating "internal electron congestion/reflections" - That’s why on 70 ohm Coax has to have a 70 ohm RCA I tried several RCA/Signal conductor combinations and found ... - you do not have to use solid silver for the signal - good small gauge copper will do. - you can use Silver Harmony RCA’s - the more expensive RCA’s were no more effective. - I still used the same quality neutral conductor. This was testing with 24/192 digital signals - higher than that might require better RCA’s and conductor - but I’m not going there. I started out building the Helix with CAT5 + Absolute Harmony RCA’s to prove the theory... - I found it surpassed my store bought digital cable - using better conductors + Absolute Harmony sealed the deal. - I then stepped back from the Absolute Harmony RCA’s to Pure Harmony and finally Silver Harmony. - The Silver Harmony work flawlessly! - I did not try the Copper Harmony because I found them to be much less effective on the analogue IC’s Hope that helps WRT... I’m still listening to them, but initial findings on the helix ICs are incredibly positive. More of the helix magic: less noise, greater clarity, better separation of sound sources. Good stuff!Good Stuff indeed! :-) Regards... |
Interesting indeed. My industrial electronics buddy thinks reversing the wires loaded a capacitor in the reverse direction, causing the amp to go a bit crazy until it discharged.. the problems I had sound like extreme versions of what you were describing: the bass dropped out and the highs were a distorted mess.. As for digital cables, i have nothing yet. I have an old AA Dac in a box, but that’s optical in and RCA out. Though I probably will rebuild those cables as helix. However, I do have an AA DTI, kind of like a reclocker, that needs a new power supply. Once I have that, I’ll need a digital cable, as the DTI only has a digital out. So I’ll keep that in mind. With regards to the speaker cables, I tried Romex, but it was such a pain in my butt that I decided to not even bother. After some thought, I just ordered some of the silver plated copper from take 5. It’s enroute as of now. If I find the sound to be too brittle, as we say, even after prolonged burn in, I’ll then have to decide if I want to go solid silver or back to copper, but higher quality than cat 5. Though I still think cat 5 has some nice copper in it. We’re leaving to Europe for a month at the end of July, so I want to get these done before I go. I decided to go with a biwire design, 2x12awg and 2x14awg for the neutrals and a 12awg and 14awg for the signal. I’ll twist the signals together. The neutrals should pretty much cover the whole signal cable! |
@toddverrone - re... I’ll twist the signals togetherI am assuming you are twisting the two bi-wire signal conductors - one 12 gauge (for LF) and one 14 gauge (for HF) and then wrapping two sets of neutral conductors around the twisted signals? Personally - i would not do that. I would make two separate cables - its easier Why you ask? - even though the signal being applied to the two signal conductors is the same - the current being drawn down each conductor is vastly different - you may get emi/ri polution across the two, making matters a whole lot worse - same goes for the neutrals and you would have to keep them evenly spaced to prevent EMI/RFI However - It might be more successful if you... - Wind the signal conductors in opposite directions and then straighten them out - leaving slight kinks in the conductors and put each one in a piece of expandable sleeve. - this would prevent the conductors from becoming "alligned" and prevent EMI/RFI pollution - For the neutrals you could wind each neutral in opposite directions around both signal conductors - this would prevent EMI/RFI between the neutrals - make sure you use the EXACT same formula for L/R cables - i.e. the LF neutral is the outter winding and the HF is the inner winding Its a little more tricky, but I think that would at least minimize RFI/EMI pollution across conductors and produce a single bi-wire speaker cable The "Kinky Conductors" has been in the back of my mind to try for the signal in the IC's for some time, but never had the opportunity. I hope that I interpreted your thoughts correctly? Regards... |
@toddverrone - "Bad-Ass" - I likes it! Maybe I’ll post a new cable on my blog - "The Bad-Ass Helix" (LOL) If it were me, the decision would be down to - bi-wiring or bi-amp-ing? For the former... - I would elect for the simple approach and forget about bi-wire cables, since I never found they provide any benefit once you get a good pair of conductors to jumper the bi-wire terminals. - I did bi-wire my Tannoy’s, but as I said - once I replaced the brass jumpers I found two cables provided no benefit. It was wasted money - I used identical wires. - and to quote you... but I also went from blue jeans twisted pair 12 awg to my braided CAT 5, which has a combined 9 awg. So I’m not sure if it was the biwiring or all the other differences that improved the sound.I think it was due to the differences between the two cables (i.e. copper quality, gauge and geometry) - rather than the effect of a bi-wire approach that accounts for the improvements. - you could reduce the "bad-ass" design to have one neutral and split it at both ends - makes it much simpler to implement. For the latter... - I would still opt for separate cables - mainly because I do not know what the combined cable will do to the sound. I agree - it would be interesting to try the "bad-ass" cables - just to see if there is any advantage - but without verification the only advantage right now is - you would only have one cable per speaker as opposed to two. You can still implement the kinked signal conductor, since it is pretty easy to do and has minimal impact on the length of the signal conductor, but again, without verification, who knows if it is worth the additional effort. I just wish I had the time and funds to try all of this stuff out - you don’t know of any audio benefactors do you :-) BTW - on my A/V system, the brittleness has now subsided and getting smoother by the day :-) It’s as though someone turned on a light switch - you notice it instantly one day you turn the system on, then a couple of days later - it’s gone - very weird! As always - keep me posted - cos I’m really enjoying the exchange of thoughts - it keeps my mind agile :-) Cheers |
Well, I've already purchased everything for the biwire.. But yeah, I hear you, it would be great to be able to test all these designs. It wouldn't be too expensive to do in regular copper, I just lack the time. So, you really think the twisted signals and combined neutrals could contaminate one another, even though they're carrying the same signal? I could see that the speaker crossovers would cause different frequencies to flow in the cables differently, I just figured it was the same signal so it shouldn't impact phase.. though now that I'm thinking about it more, I'd imagine the current flowing through the neutrals would be less aligned than the signal... |
@toddverrone - re... So, you really think the twisted signals and combined neutrals could contaminate one another, even though they’re carrying the same signal?Well let me explain my thinking... - the voltage applied to the two sets of terminals is identical - the tweeter x-over circuit allows the high frequencies to pass - the woofer allows the low frequencies to pass - each driver draws different current down the related conductors at those different frequencies - The intensity of the magnetic field is directly proportional to the current present So my answer to your question is - Yes, because they are not carrying the same current, different levels of noise will be induced into each conductor and noise contamination will prevail. You could probably get a similar, or better result if you either 1. separate the two conductors by placing each one into a couple of pieces of expandable sleeve to increase the space between them 2. braiding the two conductors with a piece of cord of the same thickness (DO NOT use a piece of unconnected wire because it really complicates things) The neutral conductors may not impact the sound at all Here’s a good article - look at conductive and inductive coupling http://www.siemon.com/us/white_papers/02-03-22-emi.asp If you twist the cables together you then have to consider capacitive coupling. Hope that - helps ? Regards... |
I’m back. And have finished, mostly, my cables. I missed your last post before building them, so I ended up doing the kinky signal, counter rotating helixes. Unfortunately, the signals became less kinky as I worked with the neutrals, so, if these don’t live up to my expectations, I’ll be taking out the signal conductors and putting a few layers of techflex on them. As it stands, though, the signals are not uniformly laid next to one another, so hopefully that works out for me. One thing that I keep thinking about in regards to the signal.. if it was one run of cable, wouldn’t the worries over noise be the same? Or would that not be an issue because it’s full signal, and the jumpers would only be susceptible to induction? I’ll post some pics on my system page.. I still need to put connectors on the second cable before I listen. Hopefully I’ll have more to report with regards to sound tomorrow. |
So far, they did superb! The same black background as the single helix with cat 5, but more clarity from top to bottom. There's not more bass, it's just a bit tighter and clean. The mids and highs have greater clarity and come further out from the background, with a better separation of sounds. I'm very happy with them. They aren't too bright or brittle sounding, which I was afraid of. I'm interested to hear if/how they change. I've neve noticed burn in before, so we'll see.. |
@toddverrone - that's great to hear - awsome! RE:... One thing that I keep thinking about in regards to the signal.. if it was one run of cable, wouldn’t the worries over noise be the same?Paragraph 1: Having two wires carrying different frequencies and current there raises the possibility the two signal wires would contaminate each other - this is not possible with a single cable. Paragraph 2: On my speakers the jumpers are totally separate pieces of wire, so induction is not possible- they are only 4" long. Over the next few hours the brittleness should arrive and then abate after a couple of days. The depth of the bass may drop off a little around this point also Around 15-20 hours there will be a little confusion in the image - focus will drop off and instruments may appear further forward or back and some distortion may appear in the extreme upper end e.g. the violins upper register. After around 18-24 hours that will settle down and the image will gain pinpoint precision both left to right and front to back Between 30-40 hours the bass will develop into a fuller, deeper, more "rounded" sound, but will not lose it's detail and control - it just develops more 3D "flavour" I now have about 60 hours on my Audio cables they are sounding superb. The A/V cables are a little shorter so they may take less time to burn-in. I am not paying as much attention with them - certain things like the brittle sound is easily discernible, but the bass not so much because I have a sub on that system. Imaging is also not as noticeable unless I play my test tracks, but even so, the environment does not make it as easy to discern spacial correctness, so I don't bother. Having said that, I did play music for around 4 hours yesterday on the A/V system and for the few moments I actually stopped to listen it was sounding extremely good :-) The extended clarity you hear on the top-mid end is due to the silver plated conductor you are using. I don't think I will be trying the solid silver because it sounds pretty amazing as it is. Your dynamic performance should also be much better e.g. the very crisp snap on percussion instruments... - drums always have snap but instruments such as glockenspiels, triangles and bongos are so much more life like - on well recorded tracks you can actually hear the hammer strike the plates or the hand striking the skin. Anyhow as far as ... Help me build speaker cables please!I guess my job is done :-) AND - YOU did all the work! LOL Posting this stuff on my site has always been about helping others and hoping others would try new approaches and wire combinations based on my designs. Keep the posts coming as you notice changes And post your pics on the system page - If it's OK with you I will copy what you post and append the "Bad-Ass Speaker Helix" on my Helix Speaker page as an addendum Just to confirm your construction method... - SIGNAL WIRES: - kinky signals from 12/14 gauge with counter rotating spirals made form silver plated wire - NEUTRAL WIRES: - counter rotating Helix neutrals - WHAT WIRE TYPE AND GAUGE DID YOU USE ???? Cheers |
Just looked at the pics you posted - that’s great - to loose helix you’ve used will prevent any noise interference and the counter rotation looks as though it will prevent contamination between the neutrals very well I think they look great and should sound amazing !!! - great job! Just think - if we hadn't shared this experience I would still be using the gZero6's SO - I guess you "Helped ME build speaker cables" also - LOL Regards... |
@williewonka out of curiosity, do you keep detailed notes on break in behavior? It would make sense, given your blog posts, I’m just curious. I have noticed system anomalies before, after new cables, but chalked it up to my mood. With regards to my cable details: Signal - 1x12awg 1x14 awg kinky ’helix’ in opposite directions, both are silver plated copper in ptfe from take five audio. Neutral - 2x12awg silver plated copper in ptfe inner helix, 2x14 awg silver plated copper in ptfe outer counter rotating helix It seemed to work better with the thinner neutral wire on the outside since, once I created the helix with the fiberglass rod, I had to wrap it by hand around the inner helix, one twist at a time. The thinner wire was easier to manipulate and even out. That truly was the most difficult part: getting the outer helix evenly spaced. Using teflon insulated wire definitely helped, since the inner and outer helix are able to slide a bit more easily over one another. Now that they’re built, though, everything is solid. And feel free to use my photos. If you want more, just ask. Also, I couldn’t get all 4 neutrals at the amp end into the BFAs, so I put a few strands between the outside of the BFA but inside the copper crimp sleeves I use. I crimped these as well. I think solder looks better, but I feel like the crimp connections are sturdier. But that’s just my preference.. |
@toddverrone .... RE: Audition notes - at first I tended to write everything in my blog as I heard them, but now I just make lists of things that I hear and at how many hours. Then I flesh it out with details It took me about 4-5 reviews to get a style worked out, but the first reviews went through a lot of "wordsmithing" based on feedback made by Keith Louie Eichman once he read them. After so many reviews in a relatively short amount of time you also develop an ear for it. I have about 50 classical tracks and 55 more modern tracks that I am now extremely familiar with, so when I think I hear something I'll go to a specific track to verift an improvement (or otherwise' e.g. Is this Love - bob marley - the image is huge in all directions with lots of space around musicians Norah Jones - Not too Late - very little in the way of reverb voice treatment so it's like a personal concert Higher Love - Stevie Windwood - superb dynamics - best drums I've heard Peter Gabriel - So - superb textures in the bass line Classical tracks (live recordings) - I use these to establish how well the image is reproduced The photos you have will be perfect for what I have in mind Thanks for the wire details - perfect I'll post a link here once I get it on my site BTW - I would like to refer to you on my site as - Audiogon member Toddverrone - it maintains your anonymity, but allow people to contact you via Audiogon should they wish to verify what has been typed - unless you prefer to remain anonymous ??? I'd also like to "quote" a couple of sentences from your posts here pertaining to your observations if that's OK? e.g. So far, they did superb! The same black background as the single helix with cat 5, but more clarity from top to bottom. There's not more bass, it's just a bit tighter and clean. The mids and highs have greater clarity and come further out from the background, with a better separation of sounds. RE: your Interconnect - what is the white stuff under the neutral - some sort of tube? - what wire did you used for signal and neutral I think I'll update that page as well :-) Cheers |
@toddverrone - the updated page is in place ;-) http://www.image99.net/blog/files/d048bbacfce9bcad4a025be804771d9a-76.html Regards... |
steve - use whatever you like, as long as you don't misrepresent me, which i'm 99.99% sure you won't.. feel free to correct bad grammar ("..they did superb!" i swear i graduated college!). i'm fine with audiogon member toddverrone. though that doesn't protect my anonymity very well.. take a wild guess what my name is. ha! ICs - signal wire: OCC solid silver 24awg in cotton. 3' per cable https://www.vhaudio.com/wire.html neutral: OCC solid copper 20awg magnet wire. 2 x 9' per cable http://www.ebay.com/itm/112418636937?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT connectors: KLE pure harmony solid silver https://www.vhaudio.com/harmony-rca.html the white tube is a foamed teflon flexible tube that i ran the signal through. it's pretty amazing. it doesn't kink at all. it's called hyperflex tubing from vh audio https://www.vhaudio.com/wire.html this has been great fun, i'm very happy with both my ICs and SCs. thanks so much for rolling up your sleeves and getting dirty with me! your helix design is quite the accomplishment. thank you for sharing your knowledge. |
Todd - thanks for the info on the IC's. If you should get currrrrious - I would recommend putting the Absolute Harmony on your IC's Once the new Bad-Ass Bi-Wire's are fully burned in and your ears get acclimated to the wonderful clean, dynamically crisp sounds you won't have any trouble hearing the improvements those RCA's will make :-) Agreed - It's been a great experience - thanks for all the feedback Until next time - Cheers |
@twoch - I’ve finally come to that realisation within the last 8 months or so. I don’t look at the cat 5 or THHN experiments as a waste of money though. I learned a lot building those cables with materials I could afford to screw up with. Also, I began the cable journey as a curious sceptic; there was no way I was going to buy solid silver wire for $10/ft. After all my experiments, I’m no longer a sceptic, but there’s no way I’d be here if I didn’t get to mess around with the cheaper materials. Now I’m constantly looking for high performance to price materials and, thankfully, there are many good, inexpensive suppliers with quality materials. I can’t wait until I get to build a DIY graphene cable of some sort..! @williewonka I was torn between the pure and absolute Harmony when purchasing RCAs.. one day I may go after the absolute. But then I think I'd be building those solid silver SCs at the same time.. ha! |
Update: the brittle sound has arrived. There’s still loads of clarity and bass, but just a bit over the edge with sibilance. I’m guessing I never noticed this during burn in before because I’ve never previously integrated any silver in my speaker cables. The new helix ICs are burning in as well, and I’ve also never installed new ICs and SCs at the same time. Double burn in! Sorry I can't comment on hours of burn in. Keeping track of that would make this not fun. I'm guessing I'm at 20-30 hrs.. Still, plenty pleasant to listen to and only a slight edge that I’m expecting to disappear.. right before I leave to Europe for a month. Ha! 😝 |
And we're back to smooth, liquid sound... Still, I can never tell if it's me (tired, overly sensitive, in a good mood, etc.) or if it's the break in. This is why I never make my final decision on a component, cable or tweak until I've had it in my system for a month or two. Then my excitement over the new has dissipated enough to truly decide if what I'm hearing is an improvement. |
Oh man, these things are incredible. It’s not that I’m hearing things I haven’t before. The cat 5 braided cables these replaced were surprisingly good. What I am hearing, though, is a smoother sound, a greater separation of sounds (I don’t say instruments because I listen to a lot of electronic music, so it’s more about each sound and its relation to the whole) and a cleanliness that does not take away from my system’s power but sounds more like an increase in dynamic range. I’m taking a break and having a beer, so this is the first time in a couple of weeks I’ve really been able to sit down and listen. We’re about to go to Europe for a month. I’ve been busting my butt getting stuff done so our house sitter has an easy experience. Sitting here for a half an hour session is exactly what I needed and to have these cables stepping up and performing like they are makes me a happy human! |
perfectpathtech - hahaha! quite the zinger. thanks for your warning and genuine concern.. i'm waiting for an easier form of graphene to work with. the powder just seems to much of a mess. i recently saw an article on my newsfeed (which i've yet to read) announcing the development of a graphene foam. that seems interesting, but probably not accessible for a few years. and who knows.. maybe we'll have bundles of nanotubes available in some form. if i ever decide to work with the powder, it would not be in the house at all. |
