HELP B&W 802D or Revel Ultima Salon2

I've listened to both, and it is very important to listen to the latest version of the 802D. IMO, B&W really improved them, but for some reason didn't update the designations at all.

That said, I prefer the Salon2 and purchased them. Not only did I prefer the overall spectral balance of the Salon2s, but their bass is significantly better than the 802D's, and IMO so is the important woofer-to-midrange transition on grand piano. The real clincher for me, though, is that to this day I've never heard the B&W 800D or 802D image well front-to-back. The newest 802D disappeared in the side-to-side soundstage, even putting images beyond the speaker positions when appropriate, but I could never close my eyes and get that feeling of having the images come out at me, and the Salon2s do that in spades. The Salon2s are extraordinary in this regard. It might just be the dealer set-ups I've heard with the B&Ws, but I heard pretty much the same thing in two different venues.

One comment I would make is that if you haven't heard the Salon2s you might think 802Ds are about as good it gets. Or, you might not be as sensitive to a 3D soundstage as I am. Or you might like the fact that the 800D/802D have more "bite" in the upper mids and highs than the Salon2s do. Some people just prefer a more up-front balance, and then the 802Ds might sound superior.

Another impression I had is that, IMO, the B&Ws have better cosmetics than the Revels. The 800D and 802D look and feel sumptuous. The wood finishes, especially, are luxurious. The Salon2s, either finish, have a shiny, almost plastic look to them. In black the Salon2 looks very sleek and high-tech, almost like Apple did the design, but the B&Ws look like Aston Martin did it, if you know what I mean.

FWIW, it's been eight months now, and I still marvel at the sound of the Salon2s.

Your listening space sounds very similar to mine. For the uses you have in mind you might find the 802D a better choice. In fact, the 802D is so good with voice reproduction you might not need a center channel.

Both the Salon2 and the 802D like to be out from the rear wall, and well out of corners.

If you like action movies I'd highly recommend a subwoofer. If you have a typical two-channel audio system I'd choose a self-powered sub with a high-pass output for the amps. If you don't use a sub both of these speakers like about 200 watts per channel of solid state amp. With a subwoofer you can get away with less IMO.

"Ahhh, I wish I were young again (but with money), now I'm old - with old ears and a fat wallet. Oh well . . . ."

Amen, brother. At least my ears are still acting young. Nonetheless, I decided to max out my audio system before my ears gave out. I know too many guys with hearing aids, and I doubt they can tell the difference between an 802D and a Salon 2.

It would also be nice if my gut was thinner and my wallet fatter by comparison. ;)

Before you spend a zillion dollars replacing the Salon 2s you might consider analyzing your system. I highly recommend a Dayton Audio OmniMic set-up from Parts Express. It'll run on any PC. You might find that you have a big suck-out in the 500Hz-2KHz range, which might explain your problem with vocals. It could just be that you need to adjust your speaker placement for room modes. Even if you end up getting a different speaker the OmniMic is a great tool for system set-up, so IMO you can't go wrong. Yeah, it's about $300, but compared to $15K speakers it's a nit.

A couple other questions:

Do you listen to the Salon2s with the grilles on or off? Have you tried both?

Have you tried adjusting the controls in the cable connection box?

Jeff, the Salon 2 is very sensitive to room placement for a lot of parameters, especially bass response. Much more so than my previous Legacy Focus speakers were, by a long shot. I've mentioned in other threads that when my Salon 2s are set up for best imaging and response in the 200Hz and up range my bass response is terrible. I finally gave up and got a subwoofer I could move around to my heart's content, and leave the Salon 2s in positions optimized for everything else. I use a 80Hz-6db/octave high filter for the Salon 2 woofers, which of course requires four amplifier channels. (The mids/high run direct from the pre-amp.) In my room there was really no other choice.

I have a lot of fun with the OmniMic real-time analyzer screen too. It shows you where the energy in a recording really is. I like 1/12th octave smoothing mode.

You might be surprised at the effect the tweeter control has on voices. Try turning it down to -.5 with the grilles off and see what happens.

Of course, it just might be that you will like the 802D better. I know someone that definitely prefers them to my Salon 2s. It's not a crime. :)

Jeff, of course you realize that the signature of a great speaker is that it makes every recording sound different. That's neutrality for you. ;-) "Good song, bad song..."

I don't consider the 802D "lesser", I consider it different. To my ears the 802Ds aren't as neutral. They're a bit too technicolor for me. But no one appointed me or anyone else the arbiter of goodness, and it just might be you like the 802Ds better.

I had the original Legacy Focus, purchased in 1996. Three 12" woofers, and that bi-pole bass made them easier to place in a room for smooth bass response than most box speakers. I was happy with them for years. They didn't image especially well, or at least I never got them to, but until I heard the Salon 2 nothing got me to change. The Dunlavy V almost did, but the treble wasn't as detailed at the Legacys. I've never heard the Whisper.