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Hear my Cartridges....🎶

Many Forums have a 'Show your Turntables' Thread or 'Show your Cartridges' Thread but that's just 'eye-candy'.... These days, it's possible to see and HEAR your turntables/arms and cartridges via YouTube videos.
Peter Breuninger does it on his AV Showrooms Site and Michael Fremer does it with high-res digital files made from his analogue front ends.
Now Fremer claims that the 'sound' on his high-res digital files captures the complex, ephemeral nuances and differences that he hears directly from the analogue equipment in his room.
That may well be....when he plays it through the rest of his high-end setup 😎
But when I play his files through my humble iMac speakers or even worse.....my iPad speakers.....they sound no more convincing than the YouTube videos produced by Breuninger.
Of course YouTube videos struggle to capture 'soundstage' (side to side and front to back) and obviously can't reproduce the effects of the lowest octaves out of subwoofers.....but.....they can sometimes give a reasonably accurate IMPRESSION of the overall sound of a system.

With that in mind.....see if any of you can distinguish the differences between some of my vintage (and modern) cartridges.
VICTOR X1
This cartridge is the pinnacle of the Victor MM designs and has a Shibata stylus on a beryllium cantilever. Almost impossible to find these days with its original Victor stylus assembly but if you are lucky enough to do so.....be prepared to pay over US$1000.....🤪
VICTOR 4MD-X1
This cartridge is down the ladder from the X1 but still has a Shibata stylus (don't know if the cantilever is beryllium?)
This cartridge was designed for 4-Channel reproduction and so has a wide frequency response 10Hz-60KHz.
Easier to find than the X1 but a lot cheaper (I got this one for US$130).
AUDIO TECHNICA AT ML180 OCC
Top of the line MM cartridge from Audio Technica with Microline Stylus on Gold-Plated Boron Tube cantilever.
Expensive if you can find one....think US$1000.

I will be interested if people can hear any differences in these three vintage MM cartridges....
Then I might post some vintage MMs against vintage and MODERN LOMC cartridges.....🤗
halcro

Showing 7 responses by chakster

chakster's avatar
chakster
6,144 posts
 
I must admit that your price suggestions are too optimistic :)
Victor X1 and AT-ML180 are way over $1k nowadays if they are in perfect condition.

While comparing cartridges on youtube is the last thing i wish to do, i have to say that i prefer X-1II over X-1 in my system (compared at least 3 samples of each model). Audio-Technica AT-ML180 OCC is unbeatable.

What i want to tell you @halcro is that my recent discovery was a shocking news for me!
Surprise. All you have to do is just to read carefully the description on the boxes of these two AT-ML180 versions.

1) AT-ML180 has Boron pipe cantilever, but only OFC version (not OCC)
this LC-OFC version is from the 80s

2) AT-ML180/OCC has Beryllium tapered cantilever!
this is the latest OCC version from the early 90s


Both cantilevers are gold-plated and looks the same, but they are made of different material. Both cartridges are amazing.
chakster's avatar
chakster
6,144 posts
 
@halcro well, there is a sticker on your box with updated information that your OCC version has a boron cantilever. I think the box is the same with the only difference that i have all info about Beryllium cantilever right on the box, not on the sticker (there is no stickers on my boxes). Also the OCC box with computer code is definitely from the 90s, not from the 80s like the LC-OFC box without any computer codes. 

Styli are interchangeable, but visually those cantilevers are the same, because they are both gold-plated. 

Maybe AT covered any information about Beryllium after this metal was found toxic and prohibited? Maybe this is why there is a sticker. Also we don't know what is under the sticker, probably different information. 

Anyway, this information is a proof. OCC comes with gold-plated Beryllium tapered cantilever, LC-OFC comes with Gold-Plated Boron Pipe cantilever.  

There might be a version of the  AT-ML180 OCC with Boron too. 

At the moment i have only one AT-ML180, my version is LC-OFC with Boron cantilever.  


chakster's avatar
chakster
6,144 posts
 
I’ve never tried the 610LX, but the sound of my 61 was excellent, but it was long time ago when i played a records with it.

The Beryllium on your 610LX looks like my Titanium Victor X-1IIe :)

We can’t go wrong with Beryllium, this is what i know for sure.

But i wish to see the manual to make sure 100% what cantilever they got on 610LX

I realized that the japanese seller claimed it’s Boron ( which is better for his seles :)

In fact it can be Beryllium or Titanium, it can be Boron (because my SONY XL-50 MM has a hollow pipe Boron and it looks similar, just darker).







chakster's avatar
chakster
6,144 posts
 
@halcro thanks for the close-up picture of the Glanz 610LX cantilever (finally), now we can see it's completely different in comparison to the Glanz 61 (from 1984) which has a Boron Rod cantilever. The way the stylus is mounted is also different. I have many more high-resolution pictures to post in our glanz thread, some pics and interesting facts are already there in my last messages. 
chakster's avatar
chakster
6,144 posts
 
Just checked the video, i like the 610LX sound! And the music is nice too 

But you can’t pressure-fit a stylus to boron....

Actually SONY did that just like Technics with laser technology (magic trick). Their hollow Boron pipes fitted with Nude Diamonds with almost no glue compared to traditional Boron rods with a drop of glue (like on my 61).

I’m a fan of Beryllium catilevers, you know.

chakster's avatar
chakster
6,144 posts
 
Glanz invented Boron cantilever for one model only in 1982, this model is MFG-61 with PH stylus.

At that time all Mitachi Moving Flux cartridges have had 3 kings of cantilevers, look at my picture: 1) Conventional Aluminum, 2) Rare Boron Rod (in the middle) 3) Very strage huge tapered Aluminum.

The headshell integrated versions of Glanz MF may have slightlyt different cantilevers, but they are all huge in diameter!

The manufacturer clearly stated the Glanz MFG-61 is most prestige model among Moving Flux cartridges . The date on the Bruel & Kjaer individual test for MFG-61 is 1982.07.04

Any Glanz MF models with 3 digits number released later on, not before.
I believe the 610LX was released in the late 80’s or in the early 90’s, the Glanz was closed in 2003.

We have no proof of the cantilever type utilized for their MFG-610LX, but i wish to find a proof!

All we can say for sure is that earlier MFG-61 has Boron Rod cantilever and it’s documented.

@harold-not-the-barrel I´ve known that for two yrs now, you see I have the former 1980´s edition 610LX w/ boron


The cantilever of MFG-610LX is completely different compared to MFG-61 !
The color of 610 is too light for Boron, most likely it’s Beryllium or Titanium (because it hollow). But if you said you have a Boron (and you have a box) it sould be nice to know what’s stated in the manual. Do you have the manual for 610LX ? We could stop speculation about it once we could see a picture of the manual, really. Could you provide it ?

Now I must point that the former 31L is inferior and mediocre indeed. 51L is still quite enjoyable, tracks Telarc cannons with ease but nothing magical though.


I have scanned the manual for all Glanz (2 digit models) and now you can compare the specification for all of them from 71 to 51 and from 31 to 11 , enjoy.

Comparing my 31L, 71L and 61 i must say the worst sounding model is 71L with it’s huge cantilever. My sample was NOS, burned-in and tested. The 31L was much better than 71L in my system.

But they are all too bad compared to the MFG-61

....the performance of the 610LX is NOTHING like the other Glanz 31L, 51L, and 71L cartridges which are rather dull and mediocre IMO.

Good to know, Henry. The rest of the models except 610LX and 61 can be forgotten forever with all ASTATIC cartridges made by Mitachi.

Listening your files and reading your comments i believe more people will realize than Cantilever material does matters when it comes to Mitachi MF cartridges (Glanz, Astatic, Azzurra, Jamo ... ).

More information about Glanz is in the glanz thread

Cheers.












chakster's avatar
chakster
6,144 posts
 
Some crazy post here again about ceramic base of the Audio-Technica cartridges, it looks like someone pretending to be more knowledgeable that Audio-Technica engineers, right ?

Let me add one quote directly from the Audio-Technica manual for their AT-ML series of reference MM cartridges:

*** "Audio-Technica engineers have ensured against unwanted parasitic vibration with an anti-resonance ceramic mounting base." ***

In other worlds Ceramic Base is there only for one reason and this reason is to eliminate resonance, but the Mexican claimed the anti-resonance base increasing the resonance. One of the most stup*d statements I have ever read on this forum!

AT-ML180 is one of the best MM cartridges ever made.
Ceramic base is anti-resonance base designed by AT engineers for this cartridge.
This is all you need to know.

Anybody asked about Saec or Victor headshell ? How those shells from different manufacturers related to AT-ML top of the line moving magnet cartridges ?




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