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If anyone heard any differences with the Signet in the carbon-fiber headshell over the heavy FR-S3 headshell.....you've got better ears than I have 👂
Both in my listening room and over multiple listens to the video....the cartridge sounds identical to me in both shells 🙌
This was a little surprising after hearing the clear improvements with all the LOMC Cartridges that I tried.
The Sony XL55, Sony XL88, Sony XL88D, JMAS MIT-1 all sounded clearly superior with the heavy S3 headshell in the WE-8000/ST tonearm, so just why this did not occur with the MM is a mystery...🤔
Of course we can always postulate 'theories' such as 'higher compliance' but why this should affect the result is pure speculation.
I think this demonstrates how little we really know of the 'science' behind our hobby.
The only maxim we can apply is....try everything and LISTEN 🤗
To attempt to predict the 'sound' of anything based purely on specifications or 'accepted wisdom' is foolhardy.
That's why I have only one tonearm with a 'fixed' headshell and will never buy another......
The differences that come with changing headshells is mind-blowing 🤯 and is just as important to maximising the performance of any cartridge as VTF, VTA, Azimuth and Antiskate.
Those audiophiles who demand tonearms with non-detachable headshells are merely depriving themselves of one of the easiest paths to Audio Nirvana 😎 |
Thanks for the feedback 😃 The FR-S3 is a hard plastic (don't know if it's Bakelite) but it's obviously the same as the body design for their FR-7 Series cartridges which look, in turn....inspired by the A Series SPU Bodies. |
The Deccas are notoriously finicky and selective.... My LDR suddenly began to distort and mistrack after a few weeks of use and I sent it to John Wright who repaired it The Stylus holder is damaged and needs replacing. 1. London Reference Cartridge serial no.LR-84. Remove stylus assembly from cartridge, extract diamond from holder and clean. Fit diamond into new holder and attach tie cord. Install stylus assembly into cartridge, recalibrate and test........................£200.00 Carriage........... 20.00 Total................£220.00 When I received it back and played it....it was boring and sounded unlike it had before the damage so I sent it back to John who responded: I have fitted your diamond stylus in a slightly stiffer holder. This will give you the brighter sound you had before.
Yes I have listened to the cartridge and I agree it didn't have the 'brightness' usually associated with the Decca cartridges.Sometimes they can be too bright and I try to obtain a balance between the two extremes. So the cartridge can be 'tuned' in several ways.... Makes for interesting listening experiences...😳 |
Congratulations on the LDR Bydlo..... A fabulous present for the New Decade 🎉 it was not a warranty repair after only a few weeks of use? Unfortunately it was not a product fault.....I had damaged the cartridge holder by dipping the stylus in Zerodust (after dipping it in Magic Eraser) as I do with all my cartridges...🤗 The LDR does not have a cantilever like normal cartridges and is 'held' in a 'holder' and tied in place. The Zerodust actually 'clamps' the stylus and pulls it away as you remove it. I can see how that can damage the 'holder' and dislodge the stylus....😱 So I now only use Magic Eraser with the LDR......NO ZERODUST!!!!! And I've been thinking about Noromance's comments on what the effect would be if the material of the 'holder' were to be varied...? We all know what different cantilever materials can do to the sound.... Do you think that John Wright has tried different materials and listened to the results...? Interesting 🤔 Please let us know when you receive the LDR Bydlo and have had a chance to become acquainted with it..... I think I'm almost as excited as you....🤪 |
As the New Year looms....I think it's time to try our final Shootout 🤼♂️ I began this Thread mainly to demonstrate that MM cartridges are not necessarily inferior to MCs...... The fact that LOMCs (and MI) have taken the top spots should not condemn the hypothesis...🧐 The price differential between current LOMC cartridges and MMs is indefensible. No cartridge is worth $10,000-$20,000 based on the sonic benefits delivered in reality. The second aim of this Thread was to demonstrate that little progress in cartridge design technology, has occurred in the last 30 years. This applies emphatically in MM cartridge design....but also in LOMC designs. The vintage cartridges of both types that have been presented here, generally exceed the sonic qualities of current 'modern' designs. Without further ado.....let's hear how close a 35 year-old MM cartridge, can come to a $10,000 current-production 'uber' LOMC...😝 VINTAGE VICTOR X-1 MM CARTRIDGEAS PALLADIAN LOMC CARTRIDGEVINTAGE VICTOR X-1 MM CARTRIDGEAS PALLADIAN LOMC CARTRIDGESpoiler Alert: The Palladian has been training for this contest and is 'On Fire'.....🔥 |
Thank you Frogman...firstly for the kind words about this Thread and my System....and secondly, for all your significant and valuable contributions over the year 🤗
Of the 25,000 views.....I've been told that just as many people are reading for your comments, as to actually listen to the cartridges.
I've personally learnt a great deal myself....not the least, that you are correct about MC Cartridges being inherently slightly better than MMs 'when they are done RIGHT' 🙃.
The discovery of the Sony XL-88 and XL-88D and the reinforcement of my appreciation for the JMAS MIT-1 and PALLADIAN conclusively places them at the pinnacle of my cartridge collection.
I have also, thanks to your comments.....developed an increased appreciation for the singular attributes of the Decca London Reference.
Let me say that I agree totally with your comments re the Victor X-1 and Palladian.....
I also feel that the 'air' and 'reality' surrounding the higher frequencies with the Palladian....are superior to the Victor.
One thing I must ask you.......
On the Tchaikovsky, there are three subway trains passing under Kingsway Hall which are not only clearly audible in my listening room....but are also FELT with vibrations of the stomach-lining...
I can hear nothing of these on playback over my iPad or my upstairs computer and was wondering if, with your sophisticated headphones and amp....you can detect anything?
Finally I would like to thank the other regular contributors....Noromance, Dover and Harold (when he finds time to leave his barrel) 🤪
May 2020 be kinder than 2019 and.....
Let The Music Play 🎼🎹🥁🎷🎺🎸🎻 |
In my last Post, I mentioned the fact that I couldn't hear the subway trains under Kings Hall on the Tchaikovsky with either my iPad or Computer speakers.....hardly surprising 🥴 In the meantime I managed to playback the YouTube Video through my actual system and could HEAR the subway trains....🤗 So I thought it might be revealing to hear the differences between the 1st Generation Youtube Video of the actual VINYL with the Youtube recording of the YouTube Video.....🤔 I can hear significant losses...... 1ST GENERATION YOUTUBE VIDEO2ND GENERATION YOUTUBE VIDEO |
Wow @dover ....... Simply Wow 🤯 Your ears should be left to Auckland University upon your demise 👂👂 Strangely enough, after recording the Sapphire Cantilever....I preferred it to the Ruby (which I had previously had attached) and so have left it installed. I am seriously impressed...🤩 Yes...the SAS stylus is the same profile on all three. PS Did you forget to feed your dog again. Hahaha.....Princi had just been fed so he left his 'station' in the Dining Room (waiting for dinner) to join me. Thanks for your impressions. I'm staggered that the YouTube audio quality allows you to hear these qualities. |
Can you actually hear the differences between cantilever materials....? That's a question some have asked me. My answer.......I'm not sure 🤔 The reason I'm regularly asked this question is because I've often written that I prefer Beryllium to all other materials. This is no accident..... Over the last 42 years....but particularly the past 15....I have discovered that the majority of the 80+ cartridges (I have owned and heard in my system) that I LOVE.....seem to share Beryllium as their only common feature. On the other hand.....the cartridges that disappoint me the most, seem to share Boron as their only common feature. Aluminium cantilevers sound fine as do Sapphire and Ruby. Recently I discovered that the diamond cantilever on my Sony XL-88D sounds stunning, but there is a 'Control Group' of only one for any meaningful conclusions on this material 💍 This seems to indicate that I can certainly hear the differences in cantilever materials...... But that's not true 🤥 There's no way I can hear the differences in side-by-side A-B Tests and I've written on THAT So it seems like most things in High-End Audio.....only long-term listening can be relied on, to separate the 'wheat from the chaff' 👂 But as this Thread had regularly demonstrated....I don't have the 'Golden Ears' of other Posters and so I thought:- Why not see if ANYONE can hear what must be, exceedingly minute and subtle differences. Especially with the quality limitations of YouTube audio....? I have an original SAS/Boron Stylus for my 35 year-old Garrott P77 MM Cartridge as well as the NeoSAS/Sapphire and NeoSAS/RubyBORON CANTILEVERSAPPHIRE CANTILEVERRUBY CANTILEVERAnd for those (like Frogman) who can't get by without their daily dose of Prokofiev...... BORON CANTILEVERSAPPHIRE CANTILEVERRUBY CANTILEVER |
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Hi @bydlo 😉,
Thanks for the update and the kind words....
As you rightly state.... loading is very personal and inherently 'system dependent'.
I suspect your intended loading of 25K may be just 'on the money' 🤞
Just remember to try slight changes to VTA and VTF which are all part of the complex recipe.
Looking forward to your continuing updates.
Regards |
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Thank you Frogman..... And thank you to Dover and you for demonstrating your rare hearing abilities for the umpteenth time.... Many people (most) do not credit these YouTube videos with the gravitas they deserve because they are unable to hear the details that you and Dover so obviously do. The main point I have learned from initiating this Thread, is that just because I can't hear something....may not mean it doesn't exist? For over 40 years of High End involvement, I have naturally believed that I hear as well as (or better than) most others. I have demonstrated this on many occasions in the past with friends and HiFi dealers, pointing out faults and subtleties in various systems which are obvious to me but not to them..... This has led me to make inaccurate claims based on my own hearing abilities such as:- - People can't consistently discern MM cartridges from MCs in controlled blind listening tests
Frogman and Dover have proved me wrong! But their hearing abilities are not the 'norm'. They are exceedingly rare and thus expose three alarming facts in this hobby:- - How can we trust (or rate) all the various opinions promoted on the Internet by 'strangers' whose hearing abilities are unknown?
- How can we trust (or rate) all the various opinions espoused by HiFi journalists and Reviewers whose hearing abilities are unknown?
- How vulnerable are we consumers, to the fact that all the designers of HiFi equipment may not be blessed by the unique hearing abilities of Frogman and Dover?
This last point is disturbing.....🧐 If cartridges, tonearms, turntables, cables, phono-amps, preamps, amplifiers, speakers and all the aftermarket tweaks designed and sold today....are designed by humans whose hearing abilities are largely in question...this industry appears flawed. That's the bad news.... The good news is that despite the fact that my hearing is not the equal of those naturally gifted individuals like Frogman and Dover.....I can still happily listen to those cartridges I might own, whose qualities would not pass muster with the 'elites' 🤗 Regards and good health and happy listening to all. Thanks for teaching me heaps..... Halcro |
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You guys never disappoint.....🤗 Even Princi agrees with you 🐶 I would never have imagined when I began this Thread nearly three years ago.....that subtleties (like the effects of different headshells) could be heard over the YouTube platform 🤔 Like Edgewear....I have read nothing but disdain for the FR-3 headshell over the last 20 years or so. Even some of my most trusted mentors share this view..... Yet for the last 15 years, that's NOT what I have heard. Without exception...the FR-3 headshell outperforms any other headshell on the heavy FR tonearms like the FR-64s/FR-66s in my System. About a year ago, I tried it on different tonearms like the SAEC WE-8000/ST and DV-507Mk II and was amazed at the improvements over other headshells. Unlike Edgewear.....the Yamamoto HS-4 Carbon Fibre headshell has easily defeated all other contenders for 'Headshell of Choice' in my tonearms (it ain't Chopped Liver) 🤪 So the comparison you are hearing above.....is between the No.1 and No. 2 headshells I have experienced (and I have heard literally hundreds of combinations and permutations) between dozens of different brands and materials. I began this Thread initially to demonstrate the 'fine' differences between expensive LOMC Cartridges and low-cost vintage MMs. I hoped to save inexperienced listeners from thinking they had to spend multiple thousands of dollars to hear the 'Holy Grail of Sound' in their analogue Systems. If the differences they could hear on my comparisons were insignificant to them (as they mostly are to me).....it may help them make a decision that saves them money? Strangely enough Frogman......the Signets are among my favourite MM cartridges 🤩 And were the ones that first introduced me to the beauties of of the Beryllium cantilever.... But let's put that divergence down to 'taste' or 'The Vibe' as we say Downunder....🙃 |
For the past 8 months or so.....I have been distracted with two of my other hobbies....watches and cars 👀 So no time to even read Audio Forums let alone contribute..... Compromised my daily listening habits slightly but that's now returned to 'normal'. After a 6 month wait.....my new 992 Carrera S finally arrived.... The first Porsche 911 in 60 years to be able to stand aesthetically with my beloved 356B Super Coupe. It arrived however in mid June which coincided with the Delta strain of the Covid 19 outbreak in Sydney, and 'stay-at-home' orders were issued. Frustration.......🤬!!!! After a few weeks it got too much for me and I took the Carrera S onto the Freeway...... At which point I was clocked by the Police doing 180 Km/Hr on the M1 (which has a 110Km limit) 😱 The Constable cancelled my Licence for 6 months there and then, and proceeded to unscrew the car's plates which were confiscated for 3 months. I asked him if I should further punish the 'guilty' car when I got it back home ...😂 He was not amused.... He then waited till I called a tow-truck and loaded it for the journey home before he would leave the scene. So now I have oodles of time to record comparisons for you....🥴 |
@dover I managed to get an early Court hearing and in front of a packed Courtroom with an elderly Magistrate.....I explained my story with the long-awaited car and the frustration at not being able to drive it and stressed that this was no 'excuse' but just an insight into my state of mind 😥 When I finished, the Magistrate said:- May I ask what car you purchased? When I replied....a Porsche Carrera S, the Courtroom erupted in laughter...😂 Startled....I turned around to find that the women were the most amused. The Magistrate called for order and proceeded with his determination:- You were on a Freeway with no pedestrians or parked cars so no lives were endangered. It is very easy to exceed the speed limit with a high performance vehicle and your long driving history is pretty good.
I don't find you a fit and proper person to hold a licence TODAY.....but I find you a fit and proper person to hold a licence in a month! When I reported this result to my solicitor...he said I did better than any lawyer could have 👏 Only two weeks to go......👍 |
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Like you Frogman, I love Little Feat...... but it's ironic that the best recording of their music happens to be their only 'live' album 😢
Their studio albums are so uniformly poorly recorded/mixed/mastered that whenever I force myself to play one.....I keep shaking my head incredulously wondering if the band members/managers ever actually LISTENED to their records!!!?
Absolutely devoid of bass and the lower heft essential for the contagious transmission of the emotion contained in rock and R&B....surely their oeuvre is ripe for a complete all-analogue remix/mastering/pressing 🧐?
Agree with you about Zero Hour being Astor's best......first turned me on to him 30 years ago but I only have it on cassette.
Just ordered it from Discogs on vinyl 🤗...so thanks Frogman.
I was most interested to see what you and Dover might say about these two cartridges because listening to them 'live'.....I can't hear any differences 🙉
Even after your comments....I just can't hear any!
What does it say when two different manufacturers produce two different cartridges that sound identical (to the cloth-eared)?
And what's the point of me having both installed in my System?
I should install another cartridge which gives me a differing perspective....👂
Are cartridges just 'tone-controls'.....🤔
As always Frogman...thanks for taking the time. |
Thanks @noromance 😃 Let's try something slightly different 🤗 I've readily admitted that I can't discern the differences between MCs and MMs (all things being equal)...... But I profess to hear the differences with a boron cantilever.....🤬 So we all hear differently depending on our brain/ear interfaces and genetic predispositions. I think we've accepted that two golden-eared contributors here (Frogman and Dover) CAN discern between MCs and MMs......but they've had it too easy up to now with me REVEALING the cartridges a priori.....👐 Can they do it BLIND......? 🙈 And how many others (like Noromance, Edgewear, et al) can hear attributable sonic signatures...? Now I thought I could be tricky by actually using two MMs or MCs, but that may be for another time...? 🤔 Apologies for the mic overloads on occasions. The human voice is powerful 🗣 Cartridge A Cartridge B Perhaps in the first instance (so that others are not swayed).....if Frogman and Dover could just say whether they find it 'easy' to tell or not.....with comments to follow in a few days? That would be great guys..... Anyone else....don't be shy. This could save people money 💰 |
Gorgeous aria from Verdi’s “Simon Boccanegra” And so beautifully sung by Maria Chiara 😘 Btw, gesundheit, Princi! Or, perhaps it was Halcro. Hahaha....😂 Princi is nearly 16 years old and seems to have developed a constricted throat which he needs to 'clear' from time to time. Sometimes it can go on for hours....😢 Now the real question for you Frogman....... Could you tell this was 'live' sound as opposed to the 'illusion' of the 'reproduced' sound? Easy to tell that the two cartridges sound significantly different. I was afraid you might say this...... But as evidenced by the lack of confidence here.....there seems to be very few audiophiles who share your gift?? Does it surprise you, that with over 30 'hearings' there seem to be only 3 audiophiles (including you) who claim to hear the differences between MCs and MMs? Less than 10%....?!!! 🤯 I can't help but think that a goodly number of audiophiles with expensive MC cartridges are simply buying on 'reputation' rather than audibility? I can't wait for your analysis on these two...... |
Fabulous.......!!! 👏 Thanks guys for all your comments....especially @noromance and 'virgin' @edgewear 😃 I wouldn't have been game enough to risk public humiliation 😳 although there is absolutely nothing shameful about getting this 'right' or 'wrong'.... That's exactly why I began this Thread in the first place! To demonstrate AUDIBLY that good cartridges needn't necessarily cost an arm and a leg 💰 And thank you especially to @frogman who, although spending years patiently explaining to us the subtleties a musician like he can hear....has explained it again in a way that finally makes sense to even me!! 🤪 The only disappointment here is @dover ....... Aussies and Kiwis share many similarities. One of the most noticable is their penchant for saying what they mean and never 'beating around the bush'!!! Yet here we have @dover ......umming and aarhing....dillying and dallying and leaving us with no idea what he actually thinks 🤣 If I was attending a live performance and Maria sounded like "B" then I would ask the singer if she could put her teeth back in. Priceless!!!!! And now for the big 'reveal'...... Cartridge A ORTOFON SPU Ae GOLD A vintage LOMC Cartridge B GLANZ MFG 610LX A vintage MM |
Thanks for the advice @dover re the Glanz MFG 610LX.
As you suggest.....I find mine to be PARTICULARLY sensitive to all the parameters of set-up, although that may be exacerbated by the fact that I have less than 100 hours playing time on it?
I found I was needing to load it at nearly 20 Ohms initially to tame its high-frequency response and I added about 100pf capacitance.
This was with a VTF of 1.35Gm......
That is how the YouTube video was recorded.
Strangely enough.....the day after posting the video, I was listening to it with some familiar music and it sounded awful 😟
After some adjusting....I increased the VTF to 1.5Gm, changed the loading to 40 Ohms and the Capacitance to 70pf together with subtle changes to VTA.
I don't think the adjustments are anyway near final and a lot more playing is obviously required.
What is your VTF on the MFG61?
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@dover Yes....20k Ohms and 40k Ohms...... Unfortunately my Glanz came without box or specs. I seem to recall that some Poster on A’Gon alerted us to the fact that there was a Seller offloading a handful of these NOS cartridges.... HERE is a close-up of the cantilever/stylus which is the best I can do for you. Any similarities to the MFG61? |
I seem to recall Frogman, that you really liked the Glanz the previous comparisons I posted as that is why I mounted it in the Dynavector DV-507Mk 2 last week for an extended listening.
And I agree with you 😉
It is beginning to sound even better with the changes to the setup suggested by Dover and the further break-in of the cartridge.
We may have a real challenger here.....💪 |
Thanks for all that info @dover This Glanz is a strange beast.....Haven’t experienced a cartridge quite like it before 🧐 It can change its sound whilst I’m sitting listening to it!!!?? As a consequence of the low inductance it is very sensitive to resistive loading, less sensitive to capacitive loading. VERY sensitive is almost an understatement 🤪Also VERY sensitive to the smallest changes to VTF and VTA I hope all this sensitivity and changeability settles down...? |
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I like the Glanz 610LX a lot..... I've been thinking for a while now......🤔 You guys can detect the smallest differences between cartridges. You can hear:- - Whether a MM or MC
- Differences in Loading
- Differences between Headshells
- Differences between Arms
I have little doubt that if I recorded the same track with various changes to VTF and VTA....you'd be able to hear them 🤗 This is really mind-blowing stuff when you think about it...🤯 You're able to detect these differences via the limitations of the YouTube Video!! But can you hear the differences between TURNTABLES??!!! Of course you can....🤪 Many lovers of Belt-Drive claim they can't stand the sound of Direct-Drive 🙉 Good grief.....the entire world of High-End Audio (particularly in Great Britain in the '70s and '80s) began with the 'revolutionary' CLAIM that the 'Turntable' was the most important element of the Audio System!!! Linn, Rega, STD, Pink Triangle, Avid, SME all swamped the turntable market and drove the 'lowly' Japanese-made Direct-Drive industry into a DJ and low-consumer-only product. I bought my first serious Hi-Fi System in 1978 before reading any journals or doing any research. So I bought a Technics SL-1700 with Kenwood Integrated Amp, Tuner, Tape-Deck. As soon as I heard the sound, I was 'hooked' and delved into the world of 'AUDIO'. In Australia at that time, there was no Stereophile or TAS (I learned later that these were 'Underground Magazines'...not available at Newsagents) but we had the British 'Hi-Fi Answers' and 'What Hi-Fi' which were very entertaining and convincing..... After two years of reading 'only' about Linn, Rega and other Belt-Drives...I saw a Rega Planar 3 with Hadcock Arm in the Classifieds (John Russin-"Exotic Stuff Cheap") 🙏 I sold my SL-1700 to a friend at work and set up my new deck.... I was about to experience the 'High-End'....👏 As I worked my way through my modest record collection....I couldn't for the life of me, hear added detail, information or PRAT over the Technics!!!? Was I the victim of a 'scam'....? 🤥🧐 The previous 'blind' cartridge comparison here was great fun...... Why not try it with two turntables? TURNTABLE 1 - Belt-Drive or Direct-Drive? And WHY? TURNTABLE 2 - Belt-Drive or Direct-Drive? And WHY? TURNTABLE 3 - Belt-Drive or Direct-Drive? And WHY? TURNTABLE 4 - Belt-Drive or Direct-Drive? |
Not so easy........? 🤔
I remember years ago, when I stated on another Audio Forum that I couldn't be confident of picking the difference between my Belt-Drive Raven and my Direct-Drive TT-101 in a 'blindfold' test....I was derided as being 'clotheared' 🦻!!!
This Test, not only contrasts different turntables....but different arms and cartridges!!!!
There MUST be 'differences'??!!
Yet no-one can hear them....🤔
What does that say about Audio Reviewers who can prattle on about the differences between a turntable they happen to be currently testing, and others that are no longer in their listening room?
They're doing it from MEMORY!!!!! 🤥
So don't give me this drivel about 'attack' and 'sustain' and 'drive' when comparing turntables, tonearms and cartridges.
Especially when you're doing it from 'aural' memory 🤪
We're such a gullible lot when comes to 'unprovable' subjective opinions proffered with 'authority' or 'superiority'.....😳 |
@dover
I give you kudos for putting your neck (ears) on the line.....👏
I'll delay revealing your 'score' in the hope that others may also be so brave....👀
Hope you don't mind.....
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Thanks @noromance .....
Your courage is noted 👍
You and @dover are in agreement. That should give you both some confidence.....
Although I do detect some hesitation from both of you...🤔
But where is our in-house maistro @frogman ......?
Could he break the consensus wide open?
Or could he make it unanimous....👀
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Take your time Maestro.....
There's only two audiophiles sweating on the verdict 🥴 |
Btw, Halcro, very sneaky of you to have both TT’s spinning at all times 😉 Hahaha....... Not only that Maestro.....I also alternated where my stylus cleaning apparatus was located to confuse the 'eagle-eyed' even more 🧨 😝 So to recap:- Dover and Noromance pick - TT1 - DD
- TT2 - BD
- TT3 - DD
- TT4 - BD
Frogman picks - TT1 - BD
- TT2 - DD
- TT3 - BD
- TT4 - DD
I think this shows....regardless of the results....that this is not as easy as most pundits have been declaring for decades!!? Those declaring their astute 'hearing' abilities the most....are conspicuously absent in all these 'listening tests' 🤥 Before the 'Big Reveal'......does anyone wish to reconsider his choices? Still time for Edgewear or anyone else to chime in.... Wouldn't it be great if @grooves (Michael Fremer) had a try....? 🙏 |
Thanks for accepting the challenge Edgewear...... We now seem to have all bases covered 🤗 Almost...... - TT1 - DD with Glanz 610LX
- TT2 - BD with London Decca Reference
- TT3 - BD with AS Palladian
- TT4 - DD with Sony XL-88D
Congratulations Edgewear 👏🎉 All that said, I feel TT1 & 4 have the more tightly organized rhythmic presentation I associate with DD, while TT2 & 3 have a more relaxed and flowing presentation, so these would be the BD tables. This is how I hear it 'Live'.... Your experiences with the Raven and Pioneer turntables possibly gave you the edge 😃 It would be interesting to hear what you all take away from this experiment? 🧐 Thanks for your 'bravery'. No-one on YouTube had the guts to try it... |
Thanks for your thoughts Maestro.... I think you bring up the important contributions that cartridges AND arms bring to the whole turntable question. Of course, when one is dealing with gear of this caliber, the deficiencies in any one sonic parameter are very small and the music does not suffer too terribly in any case. I think that is why millions of us are able to extract sonic enjoyment from an unlimited combination of audio gear 🤗 Thanks again for participating Frogman. |
@dover Thanks for that detailed and fascinating contribution...🤩 I love it.... I actually tried a number of 'approved threads' sent to me by Dertonearm for driving the Raven AC-2 as an alternative to the rubber belt. Unfortunately....none of them could regulate the platter speed correctly due to the Raven's design of requiring the 'rough' side of the rubber belt to 'grip' the Delrin edge of the platter. However look at the evolution of the GP Monaco direct drive - it entered the market with "state of the current art" error correction algorithms, streets ahead of what was technically possible in the 70's/80's when the SP10mk3 & LO7D were built, and yet the GP Monaco is now on its 3rd or 4th upgrade path, and all owners describe massive improvements with each upgrade. This point has not been noted by the Audio World in the way its importance warrants. As you say....if you look at the published performance figures of each new version of the GP Monaco....they appear to be out of this world 🤯 Yet no universal adulation or praise has followed (except I think from Greg Gregory..?) So from this reference and having had many top end TT's in my system, what I have found is -
All belt drives that use a lossy belt ( rubber the worst ) lterally sound rubbery in the bottom end. Leading transients are diffuse.
And yet you thought the 'rubber' Belt-Drive turntable was a DIRECT-DRIVE in the above test...🤔 I think what this 'blind' objective test demonstrates (as others also have), is that we AUDIOPHILES will never release our own hard-won subjective beliefs formulated over years of personal experience. Regardless of what evidence might be presented 🤥 👀 And so proceeds the High-End Audio world.......blindly into the ether 🙈 🙃 |
