Has anyone listened to Legacy speakers?

This is my second pair of Legacy speakers. As a compulsive and heavily addicted trader, speakers sometimes come and go more often than bowel movements. Oddly enough, I ended up trading a pair Planars (one pair stats and one pair ribbons) for each of the pair of Legacy's. My first trade was for a pair of Legacy Classic's. I was heavily impressed by their good looks. Stunning rosewood and (what seemed to be) a very technically sound design. It seemed that everything that one needed for a hi-end speaker was there. Obviously, there was much attention paid (by Legacy) to the cabinet work. Trendy mat'l usage, such as Kevlar mid's, ribbon tweets and WBT terminals suggested that these may be the mother of all box speakers. After about a month with them, I could not have been more disappointed. The bass seemed weak and anemic, the midrange was honky and directional. Then there were the highs !! They could bore a hole through you with their bright and sizzling edge. The crackling sound that water makes as it strikes a cast iron skillet full of boiling oil, or perhaps the last sibilant sounds of a wheezing road kill snake is my best explanation. Zero imaging and the transparency of lead. I couldn't get rid of them fast enough. The person that bought them (thankfully) did it for home theater. He loved the sound. It has been two (speaker filled) years since the. I decided to give a somewhat different style of Legacy's a try and completed the trade with my planars. These are (and I still have them) a pair of Legacy Convergence (in a nice gloss black oak). The Convergence is an early model "Focus" (The name "Focus", according to Legacy, is an acronym for : Field Optimized Convergent technology wahoo). Production stopped for the Convergence in 1993/94. They used top quality drivers in this speaker. Two 12 inch Poly's (Eminence ?), two Focal 6.5 inch Polyglass mid/bass w/phase plugs and two high quality metal dome tweets (one mounted on the back baffle). There are no ribbon drivers and no passive radiators as in the Focus. The Legacy Convergence is 51 inches as compared to 55 inches for the Focus. Otherwise, they look nearly identical. The Convergence sold for 3500.00 (black) and the Focus for 5400.00 (black). It looks like 2000.00 is the difference for a just couple of years in age, two ribbon's and passive woofs.
To say that I am impressed with the Legacy Convergence very understated. There is no nasty high end and the bass is rich, full and tight. The Legacy's are open sounding, very involving and musical. The imaging is solidly defined with the resolution and detail of an electrostat. They throw a very large and transparent soundfield with images extending beyond the outside boundaries of the cabinets. They can get intense without edginess or listening fatigue, both at low volumes and at high. They are efficient (Very: 98 db). I would like to try a pair of SET's or new generation "Mini" Triodes with them (ala: VTL, Quicksilver, AES on and on). They can also absorb mega watts and play loud enough to remove paint..... so you can unpack your Bryston 7B's.. The Legacy's will draw one into the "music" and they will seem to disappear into their vast soundstage. They will (with the best recordings) leave just "you" and the "music" in the room. As the dynamic range increases on the recording, so does the speaker, without compression or signs of strain. They (the Convergence) shrink and grow as the music demands. From Leo Kottke's 12 string Martin guitar to the Dorian recordings of Saint-Saens Organ, these speakers can outperform anything that I know of (with a reasonable price tag).The mid's and high's are equal to the feeling that one gets with the light and airy presentation of the best mini-monitors. Voices are very seductive, involving and delicate. Pianos have weight, impact and authority. The taunt skin of drums is reproduced with snap and presence so fast it seems that it is felt instead of heard. The bass-lines are much better than most separate subwoofers. The Legacy's drop lower in their reach and they are much faster (Legacy say's: 21 hz). The low end also sounds like it is a part of the rest of the system .... rather than a separate entity. Cellos and string bass have that vibrant rasp that comes up through the floor and envelops you. Kick drums lock onto the room as if it had been shaken by a small quake. Amazing power. I have not looked inside them. Perhaps I should. If there is a way to make them sound even better (wire .. cap's .. terminals, etc) it would be worth any and all effort. These just may be keepers ..... although (unfortunately) I doubt it. I am certain that this sick and pathetic hobby (spelled: addiction) will force me to inject myself with the needle of audio change at some point. I am certain to grieve the loss of these fine performers as I claw my way on to the next fix. It's too bad. After hundreds of different speakers in my life, these are among the best .. if not 'the" best. I will assume that the Focus sounds similar. I am very suspicious of that ribbon/dome combo in the newer Legacy's though. The Legacy Convergence is at the very top of my list of the speakers that I truly enjoy the company of. That long list must even include my all-time favorite ... the Quad ESL-63. In some ways the Legacy's are as good and perhaps better. I feel that they can be as involving and perhaps as musical (on some mat'l). Of course they can play louder, but I have heard some people flatulate louder than a straining Quad (although it was impossible to determine who or what was straining harder). The strain of loudness is not the point. It has become trendy fodder for audiophiles to use the cliche regarding the inability of the Quads to become Klipshhorns. The point is that they (the Quads) are a fine instrument built with art of musical reproduction as it's intended purpose, but only within it's limitations to absorb power. The same is true for the Legacy's, but with far more impact and dynamics. They do all of that, and without showing themselves in the picture. What more could one ask for ?? What-cha got to trade :-)

Tubby ......

BTW: All amps and pre-amps used for this evaluation were either Tube or Solid State.
All CD players, Dacs, Transports, Turntables, Tonearms, Cartridges and Head Amps were either Digital or Analog.
All CD's and Records were flat and round.

Let me explain it. If you know what you are doing, you know that Legacy is as Trejla says - exactly. They bag newbies with the ads before they get to Stereophile (where they then think blah, blah, blah is best, and then they are off to TAS...) and then the newbies say they love them without having a sufficient point of reference - all because the ads tell them , the finish tells them, but their ears don't. Do you know why for years Legacy mated themselves with Coda amps? Yea, being a current suck-hole from the 80's has something to do with it, but the fact that the upper registers on a Coda also can strip wallpaper seems to be illustrative of someone who has no ears but an imaginative marketing mind. Its mid-fi in nice wood with slick ads in beginner mags.If you've got 'em, dump them on the newbie coming up behind you; if you read what Trejla says, and a lot of other people who have been around, steer clear and save yourself that step in wasting money. Oh, and for you souls who post negative responses because no one can see you, and you didn't get picked for dodge ball in sixth grade, get over it and keep it to yourself. You scare off the people who are new here, would like to post an experience honestly, but somehow believe you're someone to listen to.

I'm with you Tubeears - the Convergence model is wonderful.
However don't expect the 98db claimed efficiency, Audio magazine measured 92db.
Sean has heard these speakers...apparently they didn't make his best of Legacy list. He told me they didn't boom; so was it a sizzle problem? I work in a manufacturing plant that employees 800 people. Every year we are required to take a hearing test. Invariably the nurse who reads the results will utter something like "Oh my gosh; you can hear 0db across the board...I have never seen that before". (We seem to have high nursing staff turnover). Anyway, the point is Sean; do you have bat ears or what? How far do them things you call ears stick out from yer noggin. I'm serious...give me a number. Perhaps you could elucidate on exactly what you heard. By the way about two weeks after you were here I had to move a pair of Golden Flutes from in between the preamp-amp to the tape loop...they were sucking far too much life from the sound.

My latest disappointment in speakers were the Martin Logan SL-3. The SL-3 lacked integration between drivers, the treble was hotter than anything I've heard from any Legacy model (past or present), and seemed best suited for background music. Auditioned on the same day and system were the Ariel model 8b - talk about blah. The 8b ranks in my mind as the second worst speaker system I have ever heard. I can't believe all the (seemingly unending) interest in Ariel I hope to hear them again someday to confirm or dispel my impressions.

How long ago did the ML SL-3's come out? That is when I gave up actively searching for better speakers

Muller, as i told you when i briefly listened to your system, your speakers sounded FAR better to me than the Legacy 1's or Classic's. I was being completely honest and sincere in those statements. I hope that you took them as so.

Other than that, i really couldn't pass any type of critical judment on your gear. I was not familiar with your system at all, the specific room acoustics, the recorded selections that you played, etc... I would hardly call listening to a couple of tunes in an unfamiliar environment worthy of a "complete review". Trying to form "set in stone" opinions using such a limited demo would surely result in a less than honest portrayal. As such, i could not pass ANY type of accurate judgment on ANYTHING there.

As you might remember, i did suggest sitting back further away from the speakers than where you had your chair previously positioned. Due to their physical size and amount of drivers, that specific design WILL take some space before everything blends together. I think that anybody that is familiar with the layout of the drivers would agree with my assesment. They are not "nearfield" speakers in any sense of the word.

Other than that, there were several other suggestions that i could have made in terms of how you had things set-up. I refrained from doing so as we were strictly on a time limited basis. Besides that, most people take offense to constructive criticism or suggestions about their system, especially if you aren't well acquainted. As such, i was there to give you money and pick up some gear. I thought that the transaction and experience of meeting each other went quite well overall.

As to your comments about my hearing ability or "bat ears", i can specifically state that i do have hearing loss. I already know this from testing that i've had performed. Nonetheless, this does not eliminate my ability to subjectively listen and / or pass judgment on what i do hear. Given my background in Pro Sound reinforcement, working with electronics for a living, LOTS of experimentation within several of my systems, set-up and tuning of several other installations, the amount of gear that i've owned and been exposed to, etc.., i would consider myself slightly more experienced than the "average" audiophile. Maybe so, maybe not. Either way, i've tried to share what knowledge and experience that i do have and learn from others along the way.

I'm sorry if i said something to offend you. I based my comments about Legacy speakers on what i was familiar with and what i have experienced first hand. As such, i did not even remotely take into consideration the time that i spent listening to your speakers or system. It would have been like trying to write a review of a car that you went on a 5 minute test drive with, but were sitting on the passenger side for the entire trip. Not fair or accurate at all.

I'm glad that you're happy with what you have and hope that you continue to enjoy it. As to the problems that you encountered with your secondary amplifier, i hope that you were able to resolve them in an economic manner. I'd like to Thank You once again for the more than fair deal that you gave me on the equipment that i purchased from you. The spare drivers have come in more than handy and the speakers really filled out after hitting them with a couple hundred of watts for a couple of weeks. The difference in bass output was quite astounding. Sean
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Sean, as always your response was polite and well thought out. It was a much better response than my little rant deserved. Thank you!
I tried moving my listening position back as you had previously suggested. It just will not work for me. The ratio of reflected to direct sound is too great, (too much room sound). The speakers and listening position are in an 8' equilateral triangle. Would that be considered nearfield listening? I really don't know that is why I ask.