has anyone else tried Lloyd Walkers latest tweak

Thank you Almarg, for the clarification. Had I seen that sooner, I could have saved a few keystrokes.

Mr G- Of course; the Shakti is designed to eliminate RFI/EMI on a much grander scale, than the immediate proximity to a cartridge would entail(HOPEFULLY). Again- I limited my likening of their(possible)similarities to the 3 areas mentioned(and I'm only hypothesizing, regarding the Walker).

Mr L- Type: "crystal radio" in your searchbar. The only energy necessary for their function, is that provided by an AM signal, within range. Also, along with that, type Schottky and germanium(small signal or low barrier diodes). they can take the place of a crystal, in that app. You will find that this has been common knowledge, for generations. Happy listening!

You're right Benjie. It was just something that I'm currently thinking about, and I thought I could sneak it by.

Lew & Al (Rodman), regarding the function of crystals in early radio equipment, you're both right, but you are referring to two different applications. And to some extent to two different eras.

Crystals were (and still are, in some applications) used to control the resonant frequency of tuned circuits, such as RF oscillators. While in the earliest days of radio, and later in radio hobby kits, they were used as detectors/demodulators, where (as Rodman indicated) their rectification properties were used to extract the audio information carried on AM (amplitude-modulated) radio signals.

Regards,
-- Al

Benjie, if we have parallel universes, what would they be like?

Also, if what you theorize were true, we wouldn't be having this discussion; it would be common knowledge.

Dear Rodman, The crystal in those old radios is an RF generator, not an RF absorber. In the old days, I think those radios were "tuned" to a particular frequency by changing the crystal, each one of which resonated at a different frequency. In fact, every time I tried to do a search on crystals as an absorber of RF, I got a list of papers documenting the fact that an electrically energized crystal (not an inert crystal glued to a tonearm) will radiate RFI.

Rodman, I agree with your point wrt the passive nature of Shakti however there is a significant difference between the Shakti Stone and a single crystal or even group of crystals we see in some audio applications. That difference is that for Shakti Stone there is a circuit that the quartz crystal is part of, whereas in the case of the black diamond crystal, assuming for the moment it actually IS a crystal (symmetrical atomic structure), there is no circuit.

Here's the brief description from Shakti web site:

"Through a unique application of quartz oscillators, a broad spectrum of RFI is attenuated. Being a piezeo-electric material, quartz is capable of converting an electric field into mechanical energy. In situations where quartz is employed in active components, the desired goal is to accentuate one resonant frequency to the exclusion of all others. However, within this stage of SHAKTI, quartz is used in a manner to produce the broadest sampling of frequencies to better absorb the somewhat unpredictable EMI. One of the reasons quartz has never been used in this type of circuit is because, as effective as it is as a converter of electrical energy, its very high Q means that most of the conversion to mechanical energy swiftly changes back to electrical. To overcome this problem, careful experimentation produced the necessary resistive element that is incorporated to substantially lower the Q. The result is effective dissipation within the first 1/2 cycle. This stage provides absorption/dissipation benefits for both external and self -generated sources of RFI."

For electro-magnetic waves to be changed to audio signals(within a detector/crystal), they must be, "absorbed." The only thing a crystal needs to do so, is an antenna. Perhaps, in the case of the wavelengths that the Walker deals with, the size or shape of the crystal obviates that need( as I mentioned earlier). Just trying to present a plausible possibility, for Mr L.

re: The Shakti- Yes; that it is passive, absorbs RFI/EMI(purportedly)) and is not grounded, was my point.

Just as a side note, the crystal in the Shakti Stone is part of an electrical circuit, albeit a passive one.

Mr L: Thinking back to my(at about the age of 10) first electronic project, a crystal radio; virtually the only components it contained were the crystal itself, which was described as, "the detector" & a tuning coil. I'm certain you are familiar with radio waves and their electro-magnetic energy, so- I'll skip that treatise. In a crystal radio; the detector changes the received RF energy(via antenna/tuner) and changes it into an audio signal. The detector is actually a rectifier & when radio was first invented; many found that various rocks, that were crystalline(ie: pyrite, galena, etc), could be used as detectors. Isn't is possible, that these mystery crystals are composed of a rectifying substance that is then sized and shaped to tune in to certain RF freqs, deleterious to our listening pleasure? In the radio app; the audio signal's energy is directed to, and expended by, earphones. I have no hypothesis as to what the crystal might do with what RFI/EMI energy it might capture. Not to start another debate and I have no idea whether they work or not, but- Shakti Stones are purported to function the same way.

IMO the only way the crystal as it is used on the cartridge could operate by absorbing or dissipating RFI/EMI is if it acted like a magnet for RFI/EMI, pulling in the offending electromagnetic fields like a black hole pulling in matter beyond the event horizon. If the crystal did not pull in RFI/EMI then wouldn't it be safe to assume the electromagnetic fields would still be there? It makes much more sense that the crystal absorbs or dissipates mechanical vibration, inasmuch as even low levels of vibration on the cartridge body could be audible considering the sensitivity of modern phono cartridges. Of course, we don't actually know what the Walker black diamond is made of. I trust it's not really a black diamond.

Dear Neetzshe, You wrote:
"That is how science works: theory, then, experiment."
It can also work the other way: Experiment, then formulate a theory based on actual data. Then do more experiments to determine whether your theory holds water.

Please don't lecture to me on how science works; I have been a scientist for 40 years and have published lots of papers in first rank journals. Now just show me the data that corroborates the hypothesis that crystals attenuate RFI, and I will be happy. Also, please actually think while you read my previous posts on this subject. I never claimed that the tweak has no audible effect or that its proponents were nuts or laboring under a deception. I am only asking whether or not this effect that they do hear could possibly be due to attenuating RFI.

Just like some little boys that know vegetables are no good before actually trying :)

Maybe in one of the parallel universes(quantum physics), we could actually see the effects of the crystal.

I suppose it should be mentioned that Acoustic Revive's little QR-8 smokey quartz crystal is also recommended for the cartridge body, along with other resonance targets of opportunity. Of course, be wary of over dumping.

From Acoustic Revive's web site:

"Quartz Resonator QR-8 is not magic or occult. Reason why the sound improves by using QR-8 is that because, by placing QR-8 onto an agenda which causes resonance, the resonance frequency of agenda changes and it stops any resonation. Agenda such as plug, connector, parts, equipment switch, equipment housing, and door in the room, windows, wall, floor and ceiling resonates by its particular resonance frequency and by placing QR-8 will change the frequency and stops the resonance. But placing QR-8 to an agenda which does not resonate, adversely QR-8 may cause it to resonate or to over dump. So you have to be careful where you place the QR-8. You can check if QR-8 is causing the agenda to resonate or over dumping by listening to the sound."

cause of the perceived improvement would be the topic of the debate

I have not tried the Black Crystal tweak, yet.
So, I have no right to form an opinion about it.
Judging from this thread, however, it appears to be 100% effective--based on the accounts from people who, actually, have tried it.
None of the naysayers seem to have tried it. So, their opinions are uninformed, and, in my view, worthless.
A theory is worthless unless experimentation can validate, or, invalidate it.
That is how science works: theory, then, experiment.
I would be interested in reading an account from someone who has tried the Black Crystal tweak and found it not to be effective.
Slogging through the mire of endless speculation this thread contains is tiresome.

Perditty, The only thing I would take issue with is your use of the term "debate". Inert crystals either can or cannot affect RFI. The debate could be about whether they make an improvement in one's audio system; that would be a reasonable subject for debate.

"oral incontinence"... HA :)

As I've said before, this whole thing is so unbelievable that I just wanted to see if anyone else heard what I heard.
We can debate theory of operation I was just seeking out others experience

1)Cornell University is hardly a jailhouse. 2)I never offered an opinon on the Crystal, only a reply to the first poster's comment(The Effect probably blocked you from recognizing that fact). I do have plenty of experience, regarding those with oral incontinence(such as yours), however(seems I REALLY hit a nerve). Help yourself(et al) to, "The Last Word." Bet you can't contain it, and I can use the laughs.

Perditty, Rodman, and Benjie: Can you get it through your heads that my question is not whether your system sounds better with the Walker crystals. It is also not about whether my system would sound better if I were to employ them. My ONLY question is: do crystals absorb or dissipate RFI, as claimed by the vendor? So far, I can find no evidence in the scientific literature to support that claim. This is not to say that you cannot go on enjoying the perceived effect of your crystals. I cannot understand why you respond with anger and/or sarcasm to the simple question I posed.

Mr P- Your first sentence makes too much sense for those, "many" to accept. Again: 'The Effect' at work in them. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect) (http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/evolved-primate/201006/when-ignorance-begets-confidence-the-classic-dunning-kruger-effect)

How can you know anything about weather or not something works without trying it first?
If you find that it DOES work you can then decide if the explanation offered is valid.
In this case it works so well I really don't care WHY it works. Try it yourself and tell us what YOU think, if you don't find it works send it back (within 30 days) and get your money back! (and tell us that too)

Mr P- There are many on this site that need no experience with anything, to know that something does not/can not function as claimed, or- as others have observed. A prime example of 'The Dunning-Kruger Effect' at work.

Still interested in seeing if anyone else has TRIED this remarkable tweak?
Are Benji and I the only ones with any experience with this thing?

Judy ...., another pejorative post. Who is this bald huckster and fat dumpster? Is this an attempt at droll humor. Because if it is, it is impolite, personal and defamatory.

Good thinking Taters.

A bald huckster and a fat dumpster.

I like it.

I think Walker should partner with the guy from Synergistic Research. I was at a show recently and he had every tweak underneath the sun. The system he was demonstrating cost 400k. I was thinking to myself If I had a system like that would I have to tweak it. Do guys that buy new Ferrari's tweak their vehicles. Sure some do but most keep the car stock like the manufacturer Intended. I wonder how many people that own 400,000 audio systems feel the need to tweak their system. And do you really get better sound or a different sound?

Mustang that's +2. Btw, does that include pet rocks to?? LOL ;>')

>>Microwaves and all manner of RF are everywhere in the room.<<

And so is the BS from the sellers of useless tweaks.

The Pet Rock was invented in 1975 and became extinct in 1976.

Thanks Al. Look, back in the 80s, pet rocks were the rage. I still have my first pet rock. Some people like rocks, some like crystals. I like pyramids. ;-')

Benjie, I've never known a little humor, such as Bruce often brings to these forums, to be either stupid or harmful.

Regards,
-- Al

Microwaves and all manner of RF are everywhere in the room. In order for a crystal to have an audible effect wouldn't the crystal have to act like a giant magnet for RF? If the crystal worked by absorbing RF it would have to continuously absorb all the electromagnetic waves in the room, which are continuously entering the room from outside or being generated in some cases by electronics. Because the electromagnetic waves are everywhere in the room, if the crystal didn't absorb all or most of them, the RF problem would remain. It doesn't make sense and Judge Judy says if it doesn't make sense it's not true.

Bruce, check out the Nagra amplifiers linked to near the bottom of this page. :-)

Lew, Benjie, et al, my initial post in this thread, dated 8-17-13, quoted in its entirety the explanation provided at Mr. Walker's website. Which was that it works by "reducing the EMI/RFI and static electrical noise at your cartridge and record while it is playing." Not sure what the point of calling him would be.

The only comments I can offer are the ones I stated in that post and the one I provided the following day in response to Geoff.

Best regards,
-- Al

Lewm ... remember the Seinfeld piece when George went to a pyramid doctor to save money. We shouldn't underestimate pyramid power. Hopefully, our EE tech members Almarg and Ralph (Atmasphere) will chime in and explain the science. I'm surprised that EE designers haven't used pyramid power in amplifiers.

;-)

Benjie, Why don't YOU call Lloyd and ask him, and then tell us what he says.

Bruce, Everyone knows that a pyramid blocks RFI. That's why the Egyptians built those huge ones. The Pharoahs were buried with kick-ass audio systems.