Harbeth 40.2 40th Anniversary with Simaudio mono blocks

@greginnh 
 Oh wow - I truly like how those Gatos look!!! How do you like them? How large is your room?

BTW, I am posting this pretty interesting, experienced based analogy by Alan Shaw...

"I could have a V8 car with an engine that has enormous horsepower potential which I could never conceivably strain, which will only ever be running at perhaps 50% of its power potential. I will just purr around confident that no matter what situation I find myself in, I have sufficient power reserves at my instant disposal. 

But I reject that choice. For the same or perhaps more money I chose a car with a 1ltr. engine which has a far smaller power potential of which I will sometimes use at maximum revs, 100%. I accept that this may limit my ability to overtake safely, and I accept that I will be occasionally working the engine flat-out. I accept that there is a connection between how hard the engine is being worked and its ultimate reliability but the thrill of nipping around with a small engine, running at high revs is something that appeals to me emotionally.

Let's see if we can apply some equivalents from the world of motoring, which should make sense to anyone who has driven a selection of motor cars over their life. In an idle moment I lost count at at about 30 cars that I have owner-driven over my adult life.

These are my personal conceptual power equivalents based not on science but on a lifetime of experience with listening to music and observing the technical measurements under lab conditions of audio passing through power amplifiers....


 - 500cc engine
5W audio power
perfectly adequate for listening at a low level in small room to music of low dynamic content, with sensitive neighbours or at night, perhaps whilst you are reading a book or working on your computer

- 1200cc (1.2 ltr) engine
30W audio power
fine for general purpose running around - listening close to the speakers playing moderate dynamic music at a moderate level in a small listening room (say, 3m x 4m) where you are giving some attention to the music

- 2000cc (2.0 ltr) engine
75W audio power
better for long journeys on mixed terrain so there is power in reserve - the experienced driver's minimum out-of-city preferred power choice - listening further awy from the speakers in a larger room (typical UK living room for example). You will definitely appreciate that music is playing, and you will be giving it your full attention. Its hard to believe that your attention could be divided to listen at this average loudness and, say, reads a book.


 - 3000cc (3.0 ltr) engine
150W audio power
rarely working at full power output - huge power reserves - overtakes effortlessly when dynamic conditions demand. Best value for then consumer who is not on a budget, who listens in a larger room (say, 5m x 5m) at some distance from the speakers. The music is taking your entire focus, and would be described as loud to very loud. You would not have the mental capacity to listen at this level and simultaneously read


 - 5000cc (5.0 ltr) engine
300W audio power
so much power available that engine idling under al practical terrain conditions - nice to have but probably never called on except in a moment of extremely high drama. Mandates a responsible owner (both driver and audiophile) and no possibility of kids disco use as the destructive power is latent in the wrong hands. The music is playing at an average loudness that could be described (for a pop concert) as 'concert realistic loudness'. It is bordeline thrilling and terrifying, and would be heard even through closed windows many houses away.

Personally, I cannot abide small engines where there is no power even when you stamp you foot to the floor, the same with a hifi amp that is under powered. But its all relative: if your daily musical journey i the equivalent to driving 200m to the corner shop for bread and milk, the 500cc is all the power you will even need.

Hope this helps.

P.S. At the Bristol show (02.28.20), in a room full of people (soaking up sound), the 3ltr. engine is an absolute must for a realistic hifi experience with dynamic music.

P.P.S. Remember: it is the listening loudness at you ears (in decibels) that draws power from the amplifier. The amplifier DOES NOT push power into the speakers: the speakers pull power from the amp according to how loud you wish your speakers to play. Your hand on the volume control is exactly the same power gate as your foot on the throttle peddle.

So - if you have an amp the equivalent of 5000c but are playing light jazz at 2am, you may only need 1W of power to move the speaker cones: in effect, the amp is idling. You are NOT paying for the unused 299W unless your amp is tube or class A, which are running at full revs all the time - very inefficient and producing a little bit of irradiated waste product at the power station and/or lots of needless CO2."

I heard Shindo separates with DeVore 0/96s that I had in my dedicated listening room for 1.5 year. Obviously, P3s are little speakers and do not need 200Ws. The little driver can move only so much air before producing major distortion. 
I have several friends who drive their Harbeths with tubes but not a single system is up to my liking. I remember there used to be one individual in Canada recommending Audio Noto to SE (10W) with 30.1s.....quite sad. 

I really liked Hegel H590 and Gryphon Diablo 300 with my 40.2s.....I had both amps at home for a month to compare. Gryphon was perhaps too polite and warm for already warmish Anniversaries. 
H590 was truly SPECTACULAR!!!! As a matter of fact I would blindly recommend that combo for any 40.2 fans out there. If you on the budget H390 would do as well but I did not heard the combo myself.
Luxman L509x run out of stem on material that required drive and control.
Dartzeel LHC208, was close to clipping as well and the combo sounded too syrupy and warm for my taste. 

I was close of keeping the H590 BUT unfortunately I am very picky about the manufacturing processes and quality. The H590 I had has several quality issues - case misalignment, cheap metal used for enclosure, cheap RCA/XLR connector, not balanced construction.Made in China when you look at $12k amp is unacceptable for me.

Simaudio is fully balanced, 10 years warranty, beautifully built like a tank. I also tried their 600v2 and 700v2 integrateds but was not impressed with their sound.

The mono blocks with preamp and separate transport make for amazing system at a really good price point.

Remember that i am using rather large room that is heavy damped. Much depends on the room acoustic. I tried Vinnie Rossi‘s monoblocks and honestly could not understand what is the hype about. They sounded very nice with DeVore Super 9 but far from acceptable with 40.2s in my room. 
9 or 10 o'clock Volume knob position has nothing to do with available power and more with pre-amplifier (section) gain. 
Like I said before it is perfectly fine to drive Fiat 500 in the city traffic...but trying to convince 250ib 6.1’ guy that the drive will be more comfortable than S560 is a weak argument. 
With power you have easiness, flow, and enormous dynamics on tap. If you look at the 40.2 test (german magazine - google it) you will see that they are becoming linear around 80-85dB sound pressure. So In large, heavy damped room, 15’ from speaker, playing dynamic music, 100W will not be enough. Several individuals might think that it is more than enough, driving amp in clipping and complaining about systems’ sound (especially tube amplification)  
i know that many here are die hard low power tube amp users - but try your favorite Harbeth with powerful amp - lets say Hegel H390 or H590...

i used to know individual who drove HL5plus with leben CS600. We spent countless hours on the argument until he borrowed powerful integrated from our local dealer....he was sold overnight and his 4 years old CS600 ended up here on audiogon. 
All I am saying - be open minded and experiment!

@prof 

I had Devore 0/96 in my smaller but dedicated room for 1.5 years. I have tried at least 20 different amplifiers starting from Shindo separates ending with Dartzeel LHC208 integrated. Luxman L509x proved to be the best match to my room and tastes. 
Judging from experience, 0/96s are nowhere close to their specified rating of 96dB....I would give them probably 89-90dB which still makes them for pretty efficient design.

After all that time spent with Monkeys, I have to say that I could never get imaging right - soundstage was wide but shallow and, even with $30k Shindo separates, scale was simply not there. Because of low (relative to the floor) tweeter placement, all vocals were really low positioned without any projection into the room. 

I am nut if it comes to the instruments and players positioning - I like speakers to throw large and holographic soundstage with depth and hight. Devore 0/96s were exactly opposite - anytime I played them, there was a large wall of sound hitting me with imaging being vague and smeared. 
If you like real live music in a small venue where you can feel drum on your chest - perhaps you should give the 0/96 a listen.

Another major issue that finally caused monkeys departure from my place was the quality of female vocals. They were very shouty and unpleasant (all of that using Auditorium A23, Audience 24SX, Cardas Clear Beyond speaker cables).

My summary - greatly overpriced BUT beautifully made boxes reserved for narrow market segment that values equipment locally made in US. 

Interestingly enough, I also had Super 9s for 7 months and I can honestly say that I enjoyed those MUCH more then 0/96s. But vocal shoutness disqualified them for me once again.

@prof 

I heard 0/96s, 0/93s, Super 9s in 6 different rooms and system. The sound signature I described above maintained itself across. On the top of that, 96s sounded dark and recessed in my room while fatiguingly bright in my friend's live room....go figure :)

It is worth to mention that I have tried both HL5s Plus and 30.2s in exact same room I have 40.2 set-up - I could not get them to sound involving, no matter what I did. 
As a matter of fact, I almost gave up on Harbeth because of that. When my local friend and Harbeth dealer ordered pair of 40.2 Anniversaries, I borrowed them with intention of trying Harbeth one more - last time.
Magic swap me out of my feet!!!! I could not believe how good those puppies sounded !!!! How large and detailed images they were throwing into the room. (And the voice reproduction is simply unmatched by others) 
Like I said initially, I have tried MANY speakers in my room - some close to $40k...but nothing came close to my current 40.2 Anniversaries and I did not even mention the unbelievable Olive finish!!!!!

Keepers for sure!!!

@prof 
That's why every piece of equipment should be auditioned at home. Harbeths have warm sound signature for sure and 96s can sound bright and fatiguing in the very live room. 

I agree - dark speakers can suck the excitement out from music making for very boring experience.

Many "modern" designs nowadays tend to gravitate to opposite - large, full, show-off forward sounding that simply make my ears bleed :) Initially they stealing attention to tire you beyond belief, in the end. 

I can't even count how many disappointed owners of Spendor D7, D9 and Focals I have met......

@bobheinatz 
I did not have an opportunity to audition 40.2s with Pass Labs. I tired the INT250 with Dynaudio Contour 60s and the sound was dark and rolled off in my room. Unless you have live and open room, I would be careful with pairing warm sounding amp like Pass Labs are with romantically sounding speakers like Harbeths..

BUT what does not work for me can be perfectly acceptable for you in your room - when possible, always try equipment in your own room. 

@prof 
I am a good and close friends to local dealers and distributors and it is safe to say that 85% people are buying equipment because of the favorable magazine's review or simply to show off. I have not seen that many who are actually based their choices on listening sessions or demoing equipment at home. 
This trend is particularly amplified by DeVore speakers - it is almost a trend to buy 93s or 96s to impress friends. 
I have seen several individuals buying those speakers to be placed in 10 X 12' rooms with Shindo electronics! All of those systems sound really bad but it does not matter!!! Its like driving expensive German car - all that matter that one owns it.

If you follow my drift, you will see the emerging pattern - once you buy Devore Speakers, you NEED to own Shindo Amps because that is what Mr. Dudley from Stereophile has, and of course - Auditorium A23 cables.
I tried that  combination in several system/houses and each case showed me to never trust somebody else opinion - systems sounds FAR from what I would consider acceptable considering their $40k price tags...

I am not even going to mention that the distributor of Shindo, Leben, Sugden, Auditorium, and Line Magnetic (all those amps heavily recommended for Devores) and John DeVore are buddies and friends.....that is exactly how marketing scheme is developed and people pay major $$$$ cashing out their 401k accounts :) 

I gave 0/96s and Super 9s a fair try and they failed me miserably. Because I know people in industry - I had a chance to hear all Devore line in MANY different private and commercial houses.....not even one impressed me BUT all of them looked very nice and "Artsy"...

@prof 
I had a chance to listen to those Josephs at friends house but not in my own. Based on what I remember, I would say switching from Perspectives to 96s would be a downgrade especially in the near field listening. Honestly, based on my experience, no large speakers will perform at their best in near field listening - the drivers need room to integrate. I will even take it further - if you need your speakers closer than 8', I would look for good monitors like TAD MA1S or Dynaudio Confidence 20, perhaps Harbeth 30.2s.....

Yes, Nagra is beautifully made and sounds phenomenal too....I tired their Classic Integrated and was floored how beautifully it was made and how gorgeous it looked - probably the nicest amp I have ever tried.....sound wise - very good BUT not exceptional - Dartzeel LHC208 smoked it BY far......