Hales owners discussion


We may have lost Mr. Hales to professional audio and the factory to history, but these are still fine speakers. I'm curious how others have their's setup, what tweaks they've found that offer improvements to the sound, etc.

Currently my Revelation Threes are ~3.5' from the front wall and 4.5' from the side walls. This is in a volumetrically large space (330 sq. ft.; volume unknown). Setup in a smaller, rectangular room (215 sq. ft.) they were 4.5' from the front and 3.5' from the sides. Straight Cardas method.

On a raised floor they were better without spikes; on a concrete slab the spikes are a must.

Mine are also toe'd in very little. Maybe 20 degrees. I listen in nearfield, btw. Now they're 7' feet apart and 5 feet from the listener. Before it was a 6' triangle.

Anyone tried anything radically different that worked? Mass loading, cones, etc.?

Oh, for reference my system is SF Line 1, McCormack DNA-1, CAL ALpha/Delta for CD, AP Oval 9, HT ProSilways and Illuminati D-60, plus various cones, weights, etc. What others are feeding their Hales with would also be of interest. Thanks in advance for any feedback.
fpeel

Showing 6 responses by fpeel

A story on Stereophile's site indicates replacement drivers for Hales speakers are available from Madisound in Wisconsin. The article is located at http://www.stereophile.com/shownews.cgi?1093 Madisound has a Web site at www.madisound.com . Their phone number is 608-831-3433.
Some experimentation with my Revelation 3s brought good results, so I want to pass the info along. First, given the heavy plate glass window that serves as my front wall, the speakers were moved to within 45" from it (measured from the front baffle). Being closer, of course, enhanced the bass which was needed since so much of the energy is being vented from the room. Still, it didn't sound quite right. The bass was dull and lifeless. Any sense of decay was lost. What was originally tight, tuneful bass, albeit a bit lacking in body and slam, was gone. The following steps really cleaned things up.

The Rev. 3s always seemed to be front heavy; they're very easy to rock forward, almost to the point of being tippy. My guess is the positioning of the footers is the culprit. Mine are later models with four cone footers and this may not be the case with earlier, three-footer models.

Having just bought #30 mesh screened (fine) commercial grade sand to fill the equipment stand (which also helped matters) I bagged some in Ziplocks on a whim and mass loaded the speakers. Putting weight on the top rear of each cabinet turned out to be the key. This cleaned up not only the bottom end, but the upper frequencies as well. Much less smearing on vocals and deep bass has better definition and decay. The speakers are also much more solid on their feet, so to speak.

Right now there is 20 lbs. of sand and 15 lbs. of excercise weights sitting on each speaker. Looks like hell, but sounds much better. I'm looking at ways to add the weight in a more aesthetic fashion. Maybe maple boxes stained to match the speakers with cork feet, maybe? Suggestions are welcome.

Before doing the mass loading I did a couple of other things that seemed to help. First was leveling the speakers by putting brass washers of varying thicknesses between the cone and speaker bottom. Before using the washers I was unscrewing the cones a bit to level them, but the loosened footers were able to wiggle around. Finding the right combination of washers took a bit of twiddling, but it works (and was suggested by AudioGoners). Doing this contributed to solidifying the upper and lower registers a bit, probably because now the speakers aren't swaying in the wind as before. This is not an issue if your floor is even and level.

Following a suggestion also read here on AudioGon, I pulled the "grills" for the first time since buying the speakers (2.5 years) to check the tightness of the driver mounting screws. It was surprising how many were loose! Most were snug, some took less than a 1/4 turn and a few screws, mostly on the woofers, took almost a full turn before seating. All of them, both Philips and torx versions were checked. The ones securing the baffles were all tight. Only some of the ones securing the drivers were loose. For what it's worth, aside from the original shipping these speakers have only moved once and that was just across town while in the original boxes. While the grills were off I also found one other thing that was a little disconcerting.

One of the screws securing a midrange driver was stripped. Not completely as it wasn't falling out, but it wouldn't seat snuggly. To fix this I used a length of shrink tubing smaller than the hole like a straw, filled it with carpenter's glue and blew that into the hole making
sure to get good front to rear coverage ON THE SIDES OF THE PRE-DRILLED HOLE. That mixed with the sawdust already in the hole and after allowing it to set overnight the screw was replaced. It seated as intended. Phew!

Also, I found that the diagonally-mounted grill frame rang like a bell just as reported in the Stereophile review. Wedging rubber grommets between the bar and the front baffle solved that issue. One on each speaker and no more ringing. Almost anything would work; the grommets were handy and the groove in their side fit around the bar which will hopefully help keep them in place. Not sure if this had any real effect, but it made me feel better. ;-)

The end result of all this is a very noticeable improvement in the character of the bass. There's more slam to the bottom end, lower register instruments have a distinct and believeable decay, the overall sound is more palbable and upper treble clarity is improved. I guess some would say that the proverbial "lifting of veils" has occurred.

The cost? $3.69 for the sand and a trip back to the hardware store to get a second bag for the stand. That helped, too, so I'm like a pig in s... well, you get the idea.

Enjoy and, oh, remember to double bag the sand and wipe the Ziplocks off so as to protect the cabinet's finish.

Enjoy.
Our rooms sound *very* similar. The main one here is 19'x12' with an assymetric vaulted ceiling (13.5' at the peak) and a couple of other oddities to the contours (low ceiling area near front door, dropped beam at the dividing line between living and dining rooms, as well as down the ceiling peak).

The left speaker fires into the dining area which is 10'x9'. When facing the speakers the kitchen opens to the left near the back wall of the dining area. That's effectively a 21' depth. The right speaker fires at the doors to my office. With them closed that's a 12' depth. Open it's 21'. I've tried it both ways and the sound is better with the doors closed. There's a hallway directly to the right and behind the speaker on that side, too, that "T"s at about 6'. Not the optimum space, but surprisingly workable.

Modeling the space in CARA Room Acoustic simulation software indicated a generally good (not great) acoustic environment when set up as described. The sim did show a *pronounced* bass problem in the front left corner. In reality this has proven true and is the biggest draw back encountered so far. It is not readily apparent from the listening position except for the occassional "boom" when things really get overloaded. I know it's having an effect on the overall sound whether it's directly audible or not.

Unfortunately, pulling the speakers out from the front wall kills the bass response; the entire sound thins out and sounds lifeless. Tube traps are already planned and will hopefully improve things a bit.

I am just getting things sorted out, so expect more later if anything interesting comes up. Let me know, too, if you try something new that works out.
Good idea on the Audiopoints, but I'm considering putting mine on wheels. The cable guy was getting too close to them while doing an install, so I laid down two strips of cellophane tape to mark the position of the one in his way and lifted it to the side. He commented about being careful, but twice he had tossed something down next to them which made me cringe. Even agreed that he probably was watching out and moving them was for my own peace of mind. So what does he do? He peels the tape up, me saying "no, No, NO, NOOOOOO!" the whole time. Of course, he also kindly put it back... Only took 45 minutes to recover. Damn bout they're heavy.

On the subject of weight, has anyone tried mass loading their's? While heavy, they're not that solid on their feet. Or do the Audiopoints add to the stability? BTW, mine are later models and have four points instead of three like the early ones.
What size space do you have this system in, Junkyard? Sounds like a very nice set up.

I often consider trying tube amplification with the Hales, though something like the Sonic Frontiers SFM-160 or VAC PA-160 are the most likely candidates. I really like the flexibility the latter amp provides; looks like it'd be a good first tube amp.
Ohlala, the grills aren't really that hard to get on and off. My suggestion is to lay the speakers on their backs with the bases supported by books to keep the binding posts off the floor. From that position the job will be a piece of cake. I took mine off and put them back on with the speakers upright and without any assistance. Having done so I don't recommend it and won't do it that way again!

As for the washers, you may be surprised at the negative effect of even a little bit of play in the footers. If you try the washer fix be careful about the OD of the washers used. If their OD is too small they might be pressed into the drilled hole where the threaded insert fits in the bottom of the speaker. On mine I added a large OD brass washer about the same diameter as the footer to each shaft and then used smaller ones of varying thicknesses *between the brass washer and the footer* to take out the play where necessary. I've also used this to slightly tip the front of the speaker up as my couch sits a bit high.

How much do you toe your speakers in? Mine are toed in *maybe* ten degrees. That's with the speakers ~75" apart (center to center) and 125" from the listening position.