Halcyonics under my tt. Wow

Elberoth2, I did not know that Herzon still had simple units like the TS 300-LT. Did you explore the benefits of this model?

Elberoth2, I heard that they hoped to sell it for $8500 or less, but I have never seen it listed.

I think you can see why my experiences are so frustrating. It has become unobtainium.

Lloydelee21 Look up the thread, "Why will no other turntable beat the EMT 927?" I just wrote about the Halcyonics versus StillPoints. Of course, I never had the SP Ultra when I had my two Halcyonics.

Lloydelee21, if and when you put SP Ultra Five between the Halcyonics and the turntable, please write about your experiences.

Rhyno, how dearly I wish any of the air spring devices I have tried approached the active Halcyonic device. I do totally agree that too many totally ignore micro-vibrations and crap on their ac line.

With the Halcyonics under my Shindo Labs, I doubt that the Continuum Audio Labs Caliburn can equal it.

Stringreen, I know that one reviewer suggested that the Halcyonic base might interact with the suspension of a turntable, but I doubt if any suspension on a tt is as fast as the Halcyonic.

Lewm, I have an experimental psychologist friend who did buy one of their larger units for his lab. You can google halcyoniics.de if Audiogon doesn't allow my thread. http://www.halcyonics.de/en/index.php

I think its not having a resonant frequency is key to why it is so exceptional. There are no other such devices. I have tried multiple other inner tube (home made and other), magnetic (SONY and SAP), and other spring devices, such as Tvad is recommending without the magic of this device.

I don't really know what the price is presently as it may be increasing from the $8000 retail price. Mine was used. When I bought my first Model 1 it was $6000. The US importer was hoping to make it less expensive, such as in the US or eastern Europe, but that has not proven possible. Fmpnd is right that I am bemoaning its cost.

Elberoth2, yes the first place I used it was under a cd player. Presently I use my Model 1 under my dac. I tried using my Exemplar Musicserver on the Model 1 with the dac on top, but the second piece suffers. I think the Halcyonics removes the noise from the unit directly on top of it as well as isolating it. If you can remove the feet of this device, it will sound better placed directly on top the Halcyonics. My Shindo Labs/Garrard 301 had expensive optional feet which I initially used when placing it on a Halcyonics. Fortunately, I experimented and removed them placing the tt directly on the Halcyonics. It was far superior used this way.

What shocked me was the benefits of a solid state amp on the Micro 40. Clement Perry told me to try this.

Fmpnd, I think a reviewer found the Halcyonics interacted with his turntable suspension. My tt has none, so I have no experience of note.

Wonnjun, I inadvertently got my turntable vibrating back and forth yesterday and the Halcyonics sought to dampen the movement. I have notices that women's voices, at least in my system, excite its correction more than men's, which makes your new information striking.

The Micro series can display the four of the vertical sensors or the four horizontal sensors. At the Rocky Mountain Audio Fest which in between two Interstate routes, they were quite active. When I move about on my suspended floor, they are quite active also.

Jazdoc, I fully expect you would hear a great improvement. I had my Shindo Labs on an Acapella Silencio base with the special feet I bought for the Shindo. The base was on a Mana Reference rack. It was already well isolated, I thought. I am on a second floor, however.

If the Galibier Stelvio on top the Halcyonics will fit or allow you to reach to put on a record, I suspect your existing rack would work.

I demoed the Halcyonics today merely turning it off and listening and then turning it on. The guy's jaw dropped. Once before I had a friend up and we listened for two hours before I noticed that the Halcyonic under the cd player was off. He cursed me as the improvement moved the sound, he said, from good to the best he had heard from digital.

Nowhere near the magnitude of the Halcyonic even using the best treatments I have found, the Acoustic Revive QR-8s. But I agree that room treatments, if not overdone, which is all too common, can improve your imaging. I also don't know about doing so cheaply either.

Tvad, you are correct in seeing no diffusers (professional or otherwise), tube traps, defectors, Room Lens, Helmhost resonators, or absorbing foam for a LEDE room. They have all come and gone as did digital equalization. One pair of the Hallographs remain behind me. The other fought with my H-Cat Wave Timing Control and is now in the closet. I have also used the Shun Muck Mpingo disks, Combac and Marigold wall treatments, and the quite effective Acoustic Revive QR-8s which though tiny nevertheless have mighty impact. You are also right that these all cost far less than the Halcyonics. I have heard Rive designed rooms and frankly would have none here even were they not so costly.

But your real argument is that I have failed to focus on what has the biggest effect. I would say that the Halcyonics is far more important than any of the above in their impact on my sound. I should again note that my rave is about the impact of the third Halcyonics that I recently got. I thought highly of the contributions of the first and second also, but this one is just breathtaking. My room may be quite good not by design but by luck. It was designed to be a game room.

Nor I you, but at least now you don't think I am blithely ignoring room interactions. I think also that you grossly underestimate the Halcyonics for whatever reason.

Tvad, as we know from previous exchanges, I proceed by trying things and you persist with a theory of what works. I respect your process even though I have no confidence in it, as I have tried it in the past and found it lacking. I merely ask that you not dismiss my writing about my experiences in audio as wrong. I doubt if you will ever find much of interest in my postings, but others do. It is for them that I post, as well as my excitement with what has happened.

I would very much like to have Winston Ma's room, but cannot afford it. I have had to make do with the room I have and others can tell you how it sounds. I am certainly happy with it.

Tvad, I know how you feel, and you should know that I do not feel "established engineering principles" are adequate. The Halcyonic people did try something new and it works. It is not just a rehash of the old spring ideas. I don't respect your holding to inadequate engineering dogma. If something works, there must be a reason even if engineering dogma suggests it doesn't. Suggesting that it is belief in magic or is unscientific is just rhetoric and should hardly be convincing to anyone.

But again, we have been through this before and it has nothing to do with this thread, so I beg you to just let it drop.

No conundrum for me. The science that I knew as an undergraduate has changed a great deal in 50 years. Hopefully, we will continue to learn more, such as why quartz can have such a positive effect in some places and such a bad effect elsewhere. Also, Halcyonics, as I said twice before, ignored the conventional ideas of isolation and sought active correction with no resonant frequency. They hardly reflect your position for utilizing established engineering principles. They went where no man had gone before.

Tvad, I'm sorry, but I must disagree. They were innovative rather than choosing the well trodden path. You have got to give them credit for thinking outside of the box as you seem inclined to do.

I will respond no further as I know all of this is pointless and I have made others aware of my experiences.

As I said you are wrong about the lack of total scientific knowledge and it mere proper application. It is typical of engineers. The notion that you could have a nonresonant isolation base is innovation with so many other following the well trodden path as you would have all do, such as having a Rives room, aborbers, etc. Been there; done that; and got the Tshirt.

Elberoth2, I honestly don't know. I have used the reference Mana for years, and it is a convenient height.

Tvad, when did I say the Halcyonic designers experienced "divine intervention?"

When did I say I wanted people to follow "my so-clled well trodden path?"

What does my "aesthetic" mean? Is using tried and true "professional sound and film studios" the only aesthetic that people should consider. What happened to science?

Bill, go back under the rock.

Agreed, and I don't usually watch tennis, although I once went to Wimbledon when I lived in London.

Elberoth2, The Silencer is the same mechanism as the Micros, but is not self-leveling. I was their effort to hold down the cost. The Silencer reminds me of the Model 1. I am told leveling is easy.

Lewm, I cannot tell you. All I can suggest is to call Laufer Teknic.

There is a California company that is distributor for the scientific community. Laufer Teknic does the audio aspects worldwide.

I suspect that the weak dollar is chiefly responsible for this product not taking off in the US. I have no idea how it is doing in other countries.

Lewm, Halcyonic is not a US company, it is German. The initial price several years ago was $7800 for the Model One. See: http://www.6moons.com/industryfeatures/he2005/4.html although I do remember a price in the $6500 range.

The US importer hoped to get a lower price to increase sales, but that never proved possible. This is why I am so unhappy that this outstanding device is so beyond being an option of most audiophiles.

Lewm, yes, you are right I've got mine, but I really do wish everyone could have these magic devices, and I would love to have several more. I know from personal experience that you cannot get the same benefit from a second component stacked on top another on the Halcyonics. I have tried it with a transport on top the dac and a dac on top a music server.

Thomasheisig, I think these are cartridges, right? If so, your question is one that I cannot answer. I have no idea whether investing $8000 plus in a Halcyonics and $2000 in a turntable, arm, and cartridge can rival a $10,000 turntable, arm, and cartridge. I do think it is saying a lot that I won't speculate, however.

Elberoth2, congratulations! I assume you are in the US and are getting it from Laufer. What are you going to put the Silencer on? And what are you planning to put on the Silencer? I would be hard put to make a recommendation for which component to try.

Elberoth2, lucky you being able to buy in Euros. Does the Silencer only come in one size? I don't know whether the ARC Ref 110 is too heavy, but my Shindo Labs overlaps the Micro 40 by about 2" on each side.

Elberoth2, I really don't understand this pricing. As I understand it, the Silencer was a Micro without the self leveling feature built to sell at a lower cost than the Micro 40. I don't think you will be able to compare it with a Micro 40, will you?

I wish more was said and shown about the active isolation and what we are seeing.

Yes, the Micros series is self-leveling as was the Model One.

I emailed Herzan also. Maybe I will need to send an email from the University.

I did get an answer to some of my questions from Herzan. Apparently, the Stable Table people and those at Halcyonic once worked together. The focus of Herzan has become improving sensors and communications to correction focusing on corrections in the 10-100Hz region.

TS-300LT costs $10,200 but is comparable to the Micro 80, so it is a very large unit. I would love to be able to compare the two in several applications.

Elberoth2, I have yet to get back to Herzan as I have reason to believe they think I am running a lab as I used to be a professor.

I do have an experience yesterday that might interest you. I was putting new IsoClean fuses into my H-Cat amp. The amp is on one of my Micro40s. It keeps trying to relevel itself if you are twisting fuse holders, so I turned it off.

I installed the IsoCleans and turned the amp on for a listen. The sound was not as good as it had been, causing me to think maybe the fuses needed breakin. After about an hour and still little improvement, I was disappointed. Suddenly I remembered that I had not turned the Halcyonics back on. When i did and returned to my seat, the sound was spectacular. The fuses added a lot but the Halcyonics added more.

I would urge you at some point to try the amp again. Clement Perry of Soundstage strongly urged me to do this. This all means, of course, that you too will be on the slippery slope to needing more Halcyonics or Herzans.

I once wire ac directly from the wall outlet the component's ac transformer. It was dramatically better but quite unsafe. I also once tried wiring across the fuse holder, which is what the Virtual Dynamics magnets are doing. Again it was superior but unsafe. I do draw the line, however, with requiring all components with ac grounds to be used. One only is far superior sonically and safe enough.

I have never blown an IsoClean fuse, nor have I ever heard a benefit from using a fresh one relative to one used for over a year and a half.

Reidwhitney, it has been several years since I sold my two Halcyonic bases for the StillPoints Rack. I don't know what having everything on Halcyonics, but having everything on the StillPoints Rack was better than having two on Halcyonics and the remainder on Mana stands.

Audiofun, put four StillPoints Ultra Fives under your tt, please. Let us know what you hear.

Audiofun, no Panacea, but these are so superior, that I have lost interest in others.

Himiguel, I wish I could say that there is no benefit of them under your speakers and amps, but I cannot deny that they are amazing. I know a guy with more than 60 of them! The problem under components such as a phono stage is that the Fives are so big, you have difficulty getting them under them.

If you have a StillPoints Rack, there is a replacement coming for their acrylic shelves that allows using the SP Ultra SSs that is every bit as good as the Fives and way better than the acrylic shelves which hide the real benefit of the SP Rack.

Suteetat, my only experience has been with the Halcyonics active isolation bases. I thought they had to be the maximum benefit isolation devices. I had two of these and used one under the turntable and one under my stereo amp. A StillPoints Component stand under both was their equal. I also got a SP Rack for under other components replacing my many and multiple level Mana stands. It was far superior.

Later I added SP Ultra SSs for under the speakers. They were dramatically better than the Townshend speaker cradles. I got some more for under the amp that was already on the SP Component stand. I was shocked. I tried them on the SP Component stand under the Bergman tt, and again was shocked. I put them under components on the SP Rack and again thought them an improvement. Then I bought the Exemplar XP-2 preamp with SP SSs as feet allowing it to be directly mounted on the rails of the SP Rack. It was strikingly better, causing me to believe the acrylic shelves were harming the SP Rack.

Then came the SPs Ultra Fives. I know that on SP Component stands 4 Ultra Fives if carefully adjusted to have all four equally tight against the amp or turntable is just fantastic. Never have I heard anything even approaching it.

I grant that the Minus K platform are a different technology than the Halcyonics but neither I would believe could have the magic I hear with the SP Ultra Fives. I should say that the Ultra Fives are difficult to use under component that have large built in feet. They are so big that for them to avoid the existing feet you have to go into the center of the component. I use SP Ultra SSs on a replacement of the acrylic shelves on the SP Rack called the Grid. I have not really tried to use the Fives on the Grids.