Grimm MU1 Streamer - Really "The Best"?

@charles1dad 

Thanks! 
 

@ghasley 

Let me rephrase, what is your experience with an external DAC fed by MU1’s FPGA upsampler vs FPGA upsampler turned off (bypass) ? 

@nyev

I do realize, you wanna hold off to buying a DAC but these two DAC’s are definitely be in my list of DAC’s to consider, if I was shopping for DAC’s.

@fastfreight 

Congratulations on your purchase! I expect MU1 to blow away Nucleus +.  It will be interesting to hear your feedback on MU1 vs G2.1. And you picked one of the best AES cable out there to transmit digital bits to Tambaqui or Makua. Keep us posted! 

“You are running a three legged horse if you don't get a Masterclock for the N20. 

I couldn’t agree more with @lordmelton. And this just doesn’t apply to N20, any component with external clock input should be explored to truly understand and experience that ‘next level’ realm. Listening to N20 with an external clock was nothing short of a revelation, so much so that I’m now gearing up for a head to head audition of W20SE vs N30SA. 

@rockrider

Sorry for late reply. I am using Merging Technologies +clock which not only designed to synchronize RAVENNA network (exclusive to my Network Attached DAC), it also provides automatic sample rate switching, two 10MHz synchronous outputs, one of those 10MHz being used for N20 and a set of four Word Clock outputs. Even if your DAC does not have a clock input, synchronizing Aurender transport like N20 with an external clock further yielded a more coherent presentation.

My ‘Digital’ system is listed under my username for you to checkout my system setup. You can read further on this amazing and versatile clock here,

@sc2, @rockrider

I have not tested N20’s USB or SPDIF outputs when N20 is being slaved to external clock. Since my DAC is a Network Attached DAC, the recommended configuration by the manufacturer is through RAVENNA network. In this configuration, I did hear substantial improvement when N20 slaved to my Merging +clock. So contrary to what Aurender manual says, a direct user experience always carries more weight in my opinion. As I said earlier, in my system adding a master clock was quite a revelation thus prompting me to bring in N30SA / W20SE for audition. For many out there, N20 should suffice. For me, I want to see how far I can push digital by upgrading the streamer and even a better clock down the road (yes, merging makes clocks at 3 performance tiers).

@nyev

I hope you view this conversation as another tool to further enhance the performance of your N20. Having said that, at this point in your journey where you’re still figuring out DAC’s, streamers; you needn’t worry about adding the Master Clock or additional cost associated with it. To answer your earlier question about “in terms of the degree of sonic improvement per dollar spent”, IME a better DAC, Streamer or even Master Clock yields much higher returns on your investment over a fancy Valhalla 2 USB cable. Of course, your rest of the system should be appropriately balanced to take advantage of ultra high performance of upstream components. Cheers!

“When you audition these DACs you can be sure you have no upstream bottleneck putting a throttle on the full potential of your new converter.”

+1, @chopandchange

Exactly! You can always explore better converter at later date. That’s one thing I always enjoyed and appreciated about Aurender streamers. 

@nyev

Catching up on your musings…LOL! I see you’ve sold N20 and enjoying Merason DAC1. Personally, I wouldn’t have sold N20 until I’ve found the DAC that checks all the boxes. It’s all good, this is your journey. Just have fun and don’t be afraid to step out of your comfort zone. As long as you’re not giving away your kidney to afford your musings, you’ll be fine :-)

The Merason DAC1 is a fine performer. The NOS DACs are known to have more natural presentation. The highs tend to be smoother and clearer, and the entire presentation is more analog like which is what most of us strive for and hope from our digital gear. Some folks may see these purpose built DAC’s as compromising or lacking in features but they focus on one thing, and do it well rather than try to be all things to everyone. Streaming resolution maxes out at 24bit/192kHz so you’re A-Ok with DAC1 and Gryphon onboard DAC’s. When you get your MU1, be sure to use a good AES cable between MU1 and DAC1 / Gryphon and you will realize full potential of all components as intended by their respective designers. Follow @ghasley lead on all things with MU1 to achieve best outcome before considering another streamer or DAC options.

Be patient with the process and keep it coming!

“I recently added an audiophile switch (with LPS), and I was very surprised to hear the highs rolled off dramatically, compared to Ethernet directly connected to my router.”
@rockrider 

What switch did you try? The N20 LAN is 2x isolated so a subpar switch probably do more harm than good :-) 

@rockrider

One would assume that! In grand scheme of things, SoTM recommends using few different configuration of their own LAN cables to get the best out of sNH-10G switch. Not to mention two layers of upgrade option on their switch. I do not know, how deep did you go but it can get pretty expensive with their cabling and LPS.

+1, @pokey77 

The LinkUp LAN cable is a **new** reference for high performance digital systems without the high dollars price tag. Anyone putting together a streaming system, should audition this cable. The only caveat, the 22AWG version cable is bit stiff so no sharp bends. If you need flexibility, try the 26AWG version. 

@arafiq

I found LINKUP cable to be more balanced, open and detailed over Supra. In my system, I couldn’t go back to Supra after listening to LINKUP :-)

@arafiq

I no longer own ENO streaming package, so I have not compared the LINKUP with ENO Ag LAN. Are you able to eliminate router in your configuration?

Network socket in media room >> LinkUp Cable >> Eno filter >> Eno streaming cable shorter one >> streamer.

“Both Phoenix products are absolutely fantastic with the Zenith Mk3 though.”

@nyev

They were designed specifically to enhance performance of entire Innuous line except their flagship - Statement. Their incompatibility or adverse effects with any non-Innuos products is not at all surprising to me.

@ghasley @nyev

While I appreciate your posts, but I’m afraid you’re not going to change the closed-off mentality of folks like @malibu457. Most people know it is the provenance of a file that is of utmost importance over a particular format. There are plenty of files over streaming that sounds better over downloads, CD or Vinyl and vice versa.

Just read some of @malibu457 posts on other streamer threads,

“It’s perplexing how it can be so revealing while totally avoiding sounding lean and while being so musically engaging.”

@nyev

In my experience it is not! You are probably experiencing a complete transformation with Tambaqui DAC. A purpose built onboard DAC is exactly that regardless of its cost and not without its limitations which are only exposed once you have the opportunity to compare it with a well executed SOTA DAC like Tambaqui. You know the age old debate, Integrated vs Separates. There is a reason why separates (pre, amp, DAC, streamer) continues to exist and thrive in high performance systems. I read somewhere not too long ago, unless you’re a true music aficionado, an external DAC or a streamer is just an additional expense…..well what do you say to that :-)

You started out this journey by stating something like, “I prefer not to add more boxes and the additional expense of cabling”. The million dollar question now is, once you’ve heard Tambaqui DAC + MU1 at more than twice the cost of your existing setup, will you be going back to Innuos + Gryphon DAC? Is this Transformation worth the additional cost?????

Speaking of streamer/server options, JCAT XACT S1 server is now available. And thankfully it does not rely on ROON. They have their very own JPLAY app that I’m currently testing. The graphics, layout and responsiveness is pretty impressive. It offers native support for Tidal and Qobuz. And yes, it does have a Radio feature just like ROON and compatible with any streamer / server that supports UPnP protocol.

https://jcat.eu/featured/xact-s1/

https://jplay.app

@nyev

Did you reach out to MU1 support team or your dealer to troubleshoot? Do they provide remote tech support like Aurender?

@nyev 

Safe travels! I bet you can’t wait to get back and start listening to music and your amazing system. 

@thyname

The ‘best’ is so subjective…for some folks, one box streamer/DAC can provide very compelling and satisfying listening experience.

@fastfreight

I am happy for you, kudos to you for thinking outside the box. Enjoy!

Happy Holidays to everyone.

@fastfreight

Of course, cable designers deserves just as much praise for being on board. I am attempting a similar upgrade with @richtruss, he has graciously agreed to built a custom data cable for my N30SA.

“I now realize at the start of my journey my Innuos gear was not the weak point in my digital chain. It was my Diablo 300 DAC module, which won’t be a surprise to some.”
@nyev

Not surprising at all. Those who have been down this path already knew Gryphon DAC is your weakest link. And this not to say, the onboard DAC is bad or average. For most part it is good enough but you now know having done the comparison with two different outboard DAC’s, the limitations of an onboard DAC. Once you experience something better it’s hard to go back. For me, the Cost vs Performance debate doesn’t carry much weight, maybe it means more for price conscious minds. Once you’re on a pursuit of nirvana, C vs P argument takes a back seat. And it is strictly for the end users to decide/dissect the worthiness of performance upgrade. Heck, I went from $25K DAC to $45K, do I hear a jump in performance worth extra $20K…NO, but I fell in love with the nuances and subtleties brought to the presentation by my $45K DAC. To me, that was totally worth it and the end game upgrade. Now I am looking forward to streamer upgrade. That’s been my approach of building my system over the years by focusing on one component at a time.

You are on your way to building something very special that will give you years of joy and goose bumps. The cost of all that joy……priceless.

“My MU1 just got better.”
@nyev 

I did read somewhere that MU1 is immune to external switches and fancy Ethernet cables. Once you settle down with cables on the way, I would encourage you to try Network Acoustics Muon Pro Filter Kit. I think you will hear appreciable improvements with Muon Kit. 
https://www.networkacoustics.com/shop/muon-pro-streaming-system/

@toviot 

The ROON player inside the Merging DAC is a fine performer. The reason for me to consider Aurender is two folds, the superb Conductor app and possibility of pushing streaming performance even further through a transport like N30SA or W20SE. There was no contest when I compared ROON player with Aurender N20 slaved to Merging +clock, this combination smoked the ROON player. Also, Aurender supports RAVENNA protocol, which means I don’t need to rely on finicky USB or outdated legacy protocols like AES/SPDIF. I can stream files upto DSD256 natively to my Merging DAC over Ethernet. 

Once you hear a digital system fed by external master clock, you won’t be able to go back to anything else. The sound you hear with a precise master clock like Merging +clock is crisp and clear, yet rich and expansive of the highest quality with such exquisite transience and depth. Bass notes go deeper, imaging is better defined and there is more detail to the music. IME, a precise digital master clock can make good digital equipment sound great and almost like analogue. 

@nyev 

I agree with your assessment on PhoenixNet with MU1. I also believe that PhoenixNet is a purpose-built ethernet switch that is designed exclusively to enhance the performance of all Innuos players except their flagship, Statement. 

You have a very good AQ ethernet cable on hand, don't think going back to a generic ethernet cable is an option anymore. Given your current system configuration, I highly recommend giving Muon Pro Kit a shot, it will be an icing on the cake :-)

@nyev

I recommend buying Muon Pro Kit which comes with Muon captive and a Ethernet cable. The Ethernet cables from Network Acoustics are outstanding and they compliment the Muon passive filter handsomely. They offer 30 days money back guarantee so you have nothing to loose except maybe return shipping cost.

Personally, I wouldn’t consider buying PhoenixNet or PhoenixUSB if I am pairing it with a non-Innuos server/streamer. At the end of the day, it just comes down to synergy between components.

“Would actually like to keep both of the Phoenix devices in case I ever have a use for them”
@nyev

I very much doubt that you would feel the need to keep Phoenix pieces around once you hear Muon Pro Kit. I kinda miss the simplistic (passive) approach and the positive attributes of both Muon and ENO filters. In my case, Muon Pro arrived little too late on the scene otherwise I would have gone for Muon Pro Kit in a heartbeat. I am now deeply vested in another solution to look elsewhere :-)

@nyev

If you’re into classical music, give it a listen to one of my favorite album by Ralph Rousseau - 12 Fantasias for Viola da Gamba. The 12 solo fantasias Telemann is known to have published in 1735, but didn’t get re-discovered until 2015. It is available on Qobuz in high resolution.

“Reclocking and filtering are different things with different effects”
@antigrunge2

Indeed they are…I don’t expect you to read all 655 posts or even the last few so I am going to clarify the context of my last post to @nyev for you. It was in reference with two components in digital chain, MU1 (streamer) and Tambaqui (DAC) connected via AES cable. Since I am recommending Muon Pro Ethernet filter ahead of MU1, that pretty much negates the need for PhoenixUSB (reclocker) and PhoenixNet (filter) in the foreseeable future. 

@charles1dad

Thanks Charles. Every now and then you cross path with someone who is hell bent on proving their point that they miss the big picture 😊

The OP already stated that PhoenixNet is not a good match with MU1 hence my recommendation to try Muon Pro Kit which is universally praised for its simplistic design and positive attributes on lowering the noise floor. 

+1, @grannyring on SR Purple Fuse with Innuos and NA Filter. I have been using a different fuse but case in point, aftermarket fuses does impact the sound favorably in most cases. 

@nyev 

Herbie’s Tender feet’s are good and offers a great value. When it comes to components Isolation and vibration control, sky is the limit. Over the years, I went through so many of these type of devices. While they work to a degree, nothing is more profound as installing your components in an audio rack that addresses all the airborne and floor borne vibrations effectively. There is an obvious upfront high cost but once you make the commitment, you’re done messing around. 

Further to @arafiq post…those contributing here from their direct experience often ignore (conveniently) a fact that every system is unique just as our individual preferences. There are no absolutes in audio..nuff said! 

@nyev 

Network Acoustics also makes great sounding cables. Check out their latest Muon AES Cable. Something to keep in mind when you’re ready to order Muon Pro filter kit.  Another favorite of mine is Combak’s 聖HIJIRI Million HDG AES cable. 

“I just get the impression that if you can compromise on the streaming functionality, the R26 sound quality is especially good.

@chopandchange

The OP is on a journey to push the limits of his digital streaming…don’t think he is in a compromising zone…LOL! You can certainly choose to save money and go for R26 and be happy. That’s the beauty of digital, one can enjoy sound from a very modest setup. Check out the YouTube video of Orchard Audio’s Pecan Pi + Streamer/DAC ($799.95) and Starkrimson Stereo Ultra Amp ($2499.95). This two components system sounded pretty darn good for the money when I heard it at AXPONA 2023. Just add speakers and you’re in digital heaven.

https://youtu.be/ymIoPm66FJo

It’s no secret that ROON needs more processing more to run its fancy and complexed software. IME, ROON is not the best choice when it comes to handling and passing of digital bits if you are comparing solely based on SQ. Many Innuous users already reported that Sense App sounds better than ROON (same setup). And my findings are just the same, Aurender’s Conductor app in direct comparison with ROON sounds much more sublime and faithful. 

Again, this is all very subjective and whether someone can hear or care to listen intently between ROON and competing proprietary Apps is also largely depends on one’s rest of the system and a choice of streamer / DAC. 

@fastfreight 

I am looking forward to ROON implementation in Aurender streamers.