jpjones:
I believe another reason I went with the jewels was due to some concerns around noise with the nitride or ceramic bearings (I think it was a concern with the ceramics) but as I stated it has been a minute and I don’t recall all of my conversations. I am, however, paying attention to your statements and may very well try the Nitride bearings. My saphires were expensive and come from a Swiss Lab. I don’t have the specs in front of me but the sphericity was, well Swiss lab grade :) very high.
FYI my SP 10MK 3 based NGS SE does use your Fidelis Analog FA6042 Pitch Synthesizer. Thank you for that contribution!
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tomic601:
Thank you. I am glad you enjoyed it, typos and all.
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Please forgive my typos and the errant use of some commas in the original post. I should have proof read a bit better.
The EPA 100 MK 2 was chosen specifically for the London Reference because of its unique adjustable damping system.
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Dover:
Thank you. I am aware of the nitride bearings and almost went with them. There was some discussion that caused me to go with the jewels but it’s been a while and I don’t recall all of the reasons, but I think stiction was one of the main decision factors. If I don’t like them, I can always try the nitride bearings. I am aware of the "less than optimal effective mass" of the EPA 100 Mk 2 but recall that this arm has the adjustable damping system which is "supposed" to mitigate much of that dependance. We shall see :)
Dogberry:
Thanks for all the information. I was unaware that John found someone to take over! I am so glad to read that information as it would have been a shame to not have recourse if something adverse (or just wear) were to happen to my London. I just got it back from John about a month ago and now have 25 hours on the London. When the Epoch 3 was being used with the DartZeel it was being run as a MC as the newer Zeels no longer facilitate MM cartridges. On the PH 77 it is set up as MM/MC Hi at 47K ohms. I will take your advice and play around with it set for MC and try various loads, should be fun. Would you happen to know to whom the mantle has been passed as it relates to the London? Thanks!
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So a correction or two. I went down to the cave to check the settings for the PH 77 and I have been running the Epoch 3 in MC mode (not MM/MC Hi as I mistakenly mentioned above) at 60dB of gain loaded at 47k ohm. I keep the display of the PH 77 off unless I am changing its settings. I tried higher loading and the result was exactly what I expected it would be, a dull warmed over, and seemingly slower sound delivery. I tried 350 ohms, that was like putting a blanket over the system, and then 500, 750 and 1500 ohms. It got progressively better as the cartridge was more lightly loaded, but once back to 47k ohm, magic again. In my system with the AMR PH 77 the Epoch is best at 60dB, 47K ohms. I am not implying that it wont or can't sound better in another system more heavily loaded. YMMV
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noromance:
You are correct concering proper run-in with audio gear. My unlce used to go through so much gear and then he would tell me how for instance one dac smoked the other. I stopped really putting any stock in his assertations because he might only have a piece of gear for 2 or maybe 3 weeks before it was out the door. I would always tell him that he actually has no idea how the piece sounds because he never gave it a chance.
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dogberry:
I am definitely going to try running it as a MC on the PH77 tonight with different loading. I wanted to mention that going from 47k ohms to say 400 or 100 ohms is not actually "lower" loading, it seems counterintuitive but it is actually "higher" loading. The lowered resistance will flow more current thus you are more heavily loading the source. Just some nerd knowledge I thought I’d put out in the ether.
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kinros:
It is super quiet in the grooves and it does pull a ton of information out. I hear things on the record the same CD doesnt’ really seem to reproduce well. I have my loading at 47K ohms. I have found the higher settings is where the Epoch thrives.
waytoomuchstuff:
I am sorrry about your bike accident. I fell off my bike circa July 2019 and ruptured my ACL so I know the journey back can be a bit rough. I would imagine that your injury, being to both hands was especially tough. Glad you’re on the mend! Sorry for the mishap with the cartridge, just a horrible feeling. I destroyed my former MC Anna once with a miscalculated hand movement. Knocked the arm out of its resting place and the stylus hit the vinyl violently. I shone a light on the vinyl and a glint hit my eye, I knew it was my stylus. Waves of sickness rushed through me. Four thousand dollars later ($3800) and I was back in business but it took me months to get over the tagedy. I need friends like you that give out world class cartridges. Christmas is coming up and I am thinking of a Grado Reference or Aeon 3 Mono to add to the table, wink wink.
dogberry:
Thanks. I did find the site last evening. Welcome news indeed.
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Mglik:
My experience with the Epoch is the lighter the load the better, therefore I would say 47k ohms, as does the manufacturer.
raul:
Thank you, I now firmly recall that I eschewed ceramics because of possible issues with noise. It is rewired from the head shell mount straight through. I bypassed the horrid rca connectors that Technics had in place.
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Terry9:
The Epoch tracks very well, no complaints. I think that less anti skate bias is better, at lease for my setup. Concerning Koetsu cartridges, I don’t have a great deal of experience. I have listened to the Onyx Platinum but it was not in my system. I simply don’t feel I have enough ear time with Koetsu cartridges to make intelligent commentary.
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Dogberry:
First and foremost, thank you for your honesty. This is why I am keen on saying that most importantly is what “you” hear and like! I was perplexed by your findings but again, your system, your tastes. Now I understand and it makes sense. I absolutely don’t wish to come of insensitively so if I fail, PLEASE FORGIVE ME :)
I will stand by my findings with this cartridge barring any extraneous issues.
I am very glad that you can still find joy with your system!
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dogberry:
I’m glad you’ve found a way to make your Statement 3 sound even better!
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Ok, I finally got to the bottom of my left channel groove wall noise. I have never experienced this before, but the issue was VTA! I adjusted all parameters and thought I had the VTA perfect. It turns out it was a little high, one full turn on the 4 Point VTA tower and the noise vanished. This was difficult for me to diagnose because, as I stated previously, I have never experienced this type of effect as related to VTA/SRA.
Also, I think because the cartridge was a bit thick sounding before actually clocking some real hours (133 at this point), I enjoyed the lighter sound the higher VTA produced. Now that the suspension has started to relax, lowering the VTA did not cause a thickening of the sound.
I can now listen in all of the Epochs glory, although I know I now have to fine tune the VTF and maybe even the azimuth.
I am just glad I was able to find the culprit as I love this cartridge! Thank you all for your input, it was much appreciated.
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My experience with the Epoch shows that one needs 60dB of gain and loading of 47k ohms.
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Following up on my Epoch adventure :)
So some months have passed by since I purchased the Epoch 3 and I now have 171 hours logged. I have noted a few things in that time. The Epoch 3 requires approximately 150 hours of run it before it really starts to exhibit its extraordinary capabilities. I think it still has more to give as it runs-in further.
I typically like to break cartridges in by running them at or near the maximum recommended VTF for about 50 hours, then I start lowering the VTF as the suspension has been exercised. The VTF is now set to 1.657g.
My initial plans were to keep the Epoch on the Kuzma 4 P 11” and add an Ortofon MC Diamond to the Kuzma 4P 14” arm. While I loved how the Epoch made the music come alive, I felt I was missing that last smidgeon of air up top on delicate female vocals. I no longer feel that way. This thing is very airy and I would say at this point it is simply the best cartridge I’ve yet to experience. It is a masterpiece of engineering with outstanding musical ability.
The Epoch surprised me as I have found myself contemplating the need to add another cartridge, other than a true mono. In the end I think I am still going to add either an Audio Technica AT-MC2022 or a Dava Ref to the 14” arm. Do I need either? Well, I don’t need any of these toys but I enjoy them very much. My table can handle 4 arms so I plan to add superlative cartridges that offer different perspectives.
My AMR CD 77.1, modified with a Double Crown 1541, Jupiter Copper Foil caps bypassed with .01uf silver foil Duelunds and other serious mods has served me well and is one of the best digital front ends I have experienced. It has outperformed a number of analog rigs with well recorded digital material. I have found lately that it is impossible for me to listen to analog first. I either have an all digital session and it sounds glorious or I listen to digital first and it sounds glorious. There is NO going from the Kuzma/Epoch to digital!
I have a Grado Statement 3 Mono which should arrive Wednesday. I am looking forward to putting it through its paces. I only possess a small number of mono recordings but I want to increase that count as I have experienced some phenomenal mono records.
To wrap up, I have not one regret on purchasing this transducer, it is shockingly good! Best I have yet to own or hear.
Now what will the Epoch 4 sound like? :) I am kidding, I have heard nothing of an Epoch 4 :) Just being an audiophile!!!
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@mijostyn: LOL Nice!!! I literally almost started thinking, hmm!
Don’t be an enabler :)
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Hi lewm, long time.
I have done just that in a less formal setting. I have noted over the years when comparing cartridges such as the Kiseki Purple Heart or various modified Denon 103's, even the AT Art 1000 that there does seem to be a step up in performance as the cost of admission increases. I wish this were not the case and it is certainly is not a law, but it seems to exist. I know many people want to believe that a Hana ML (a fine cartride btw) can play at the level of an Air Tight Supreme or a MC Anna, the truth is that in a system sufficiently resolving, the more expeinsive cartrides tend to simply leave the less costly cartridges in the dust. I have found that when listening to cartridges on their own, they may sound reference level to some, but head to head the truth is revelaed, and anyone who can actually hear will experience the delta.
I have read the statements of some writers claiming that $3-5K gets one about 99% of the capabilities of the $10k crowd of cartridges. My experience does not hold with their findings. Cartidegs like the Fuuga, MC Anna/Diamond, top level VDH's simply play at a far higher level of sophistication, resolution, and the ability to communicate the artists emotions in a more tangile manner.
I recall listing to a Kiseki Purple Heart that a friend loaned me, and liking what I heard. I found it to be an excellent sounding transducer although I did think the $3.5K price was pushing it for the sound I was experiencing. When I put the MC Anna back in play it was just a masacre! The Kiseki was basically unlistenable. Again, a good deal of ones findings will depend on their systems overall performance level.
One cartridge I recall that I did find to punch way above itt cost is the Ikeaa 9TT, that one is special as is the AT Art 1000.
My experience has convinced me that the cost of the cartridge should be reflective of the overall analog playback systems level of sophistication. Again, these are my general thoughts based on my personal findings, my personal listening:)
For example, I really liked my former Technics SL-1200 GAE. It was a great table. Could that table ever exploit the capabilities of an Ortofon MC Anna? NO!
Yes, I did place the MC Anna on that table and it was not good. The Art 1000 on the GAE sounded fantastic!
I admit some of this stuff is outrageously priced due to greedy distributors, pure hype, any number of reasons, but some of the prices are justified based on performance, the engineering and the art that went into the devices creation.
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Ok, just ordered, literally 30 minutes ago, the AT AT-MC2022. Not sure if I should be crying or happy :) I will report my comparitive findings once I recieve the MC-2022 and get at least 50 hours on her. So, Christmas came early for me!
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gakerty:
Yes, the soundstage destroyed my former London Reference's soundstaging abilities. On certain songs, it can almost have a surround sound effect where I hear sounds coming from extreme locations while sounding completely natural, as if the actual person or instrument is placed at that position in my room. The sound field has caused me to almost look behind myself on more than one occasion for the source of a sound :)
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gakerty:
Hi. I think your point is valid. I believe John was building a system, and not just putting together a list of parts that make for great marketing. I was concerned about this as well, but noted that it is not a typical elliptical. All of my concerns were allayed after I auditioned the cartridge and witnessed how it went head to head with my former London Reference. Note that I wrote former as the Epoch finally outperformed the London to the point that I sold the Decca :) It wasn’t really close after the Epoch started getting some hours on the clock and the suspension loosened up.
There is nothing wrong with more acute styli, I mean my first cartridge was the Ortofon MC Anna with it’s very very picky Replicant 100 diamond. One thing I love about the Epoch is that I can dial in my 4Point and it is good for my 140g to my 200g albums. Although I loved my Anna, I do not miss at all readjusting the VTA and consequently, the VTF for albums at 180g, below 180g and above 180g, The Replicant 100 (on a highly resolving system) is that sensitive. I printed labels and placed them on my VTA tower ring for 140g, 180g and 200g (thanks Albert Porter :). This allowed me to fairly quickly turn the dial on the Kuzma VTA tower for the weight of the album I was spinning, and YES LOL, my albums outer plastic sleeves had a label with the wieght of the vinyl listed :) I have always mentioned to people that if you are thinking of purchaing a cartridge with a severe stylus, make sure your arm has easily repeatable VTA adjustments as you simply will not get the most out of your system if you do not adjust for album weight (thickness).
The stylus John has chosen has made a believer out of me, although I still have nothing against other styli including the Replicant 100.
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I wanted to add that you are not wrong that one may experience some IGD on certain albums, I have myself. I've found that with meticulous setup, this can be mostly overcome. The overall playback of the Epoch 3 is really something to experience.
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kennyc:
i understand!!! I was doing so well and one little slip and I’m off the wagon!! I also want to hear the Dava Ref very badly :) One of my audiophile peeps owns and loves the Dava. The Grail SB is an exceptional phono stage and does not get the recognition it deserves. Another buddy of mine owns the Grail SB. I am not the biggest fan of SUT’s (don’t want to start anything :). I simply prefer active gain stages. Physics is physics and minute signals and miles of wire? I’ll pass. I’ve tried the SUT route on multiple occasions. I also think owning two very top of the line reference TVC’s has affected my opinions about transformers. Even at line level (2v) coming out of a DAC, my former reference level ($16K) TVC was obfuscating information. I replaced it with a simple self made, albeit high-end passive and a Wyred for Sound STP-SE preamp, (currently a DartZeel NHB-18NS) and both clearly passed more information. It was very small but things like a singer subtly taking a shallow breath were simply absent with the TVC. Now, I have heard SUT based systems sound very very good, awesome even, but in my mind I am always thinking about microvolts and miles of wire, phase shifts, hysteresis, etc.
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Hi drvinyl01.
DS Audio makes some interesting gear, as a matter of fact, just 2-3 days back I ordered the ES-001 Eccentricity correction device. I had a chance to use it at Axpona and I was impressed. I have heard their cartridge/phonostage systems over the years including the latest Grand Master system with the EX single diamond cantilever/stylus.
I wanted to like their playback gear but I do not. It’s just not my cup of tea. I find it presents a plasticky sounding character and it simply has a faux sound. It reminds me of non exceptional digital. It is a far cry better than when the gear first hit the market. I recall hearing, with the first gen gear, all types of phase anomalies centered specifically around noise such as pops or ticks the cartridge may have picked up. It appears they have remedied the first generation phase anomalies but it does sound a bit two dimensional to my ears.
I am sure DS Audio will continue to improve the product and I can understand why some people may love how the system sounds. Courses for horses and all :)
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terry9:
That is awesome! Excited for you and can’t wait to hear your thoughts on the Epoch 3.
Now, I just need to find a girl with the genius of yours LOL!
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terry9:
That’s interesting, thanks for sharing the information.
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I can’t speak to why it’s taken this long for the Epoch to run-in, but it certainly did take all of 150 hours before I felt it truly came into its own. I am not convinced at 178 hours that it’s fully run-in. For the record, I designed my own 3 and 4 way active speakers and the active crossovers to go along with them. I can hear a little. I am not one to get used to an inferior sounding product just because I’ve tried to allow it to run-in for an extended period. Case in point, back around ‘98 I owned a pair of Talon Audio Khorus speakers, remember those :) I always thought they sucked! Bought them from my uncle and the claim at the time was that they required 2500 hours to fully run-in. I always suspected that a 10” driver crossing to a tweeter was never ever going to work and that the claimed 2.5k hour run-in time was simply stated with the belief that the masses would become used to the sucked out, read missing presence region. Once I designed a few speakers I knew that a 10” driver to a tweeter wouldn’t work for people who can hear. This to say that break-in is real, but some people simply become accustomed to an inferior sound :) I’m not sure if it was growing up in a house with my sister playing piano or my playing Clarinet from the 5th grade through my sophomore year, but I am very sensitive to music when it is NOT QUITE RIGHT.
I did purchase the Audio Technica AT-MC2022 60th anniversary cartridge. The Epoch 3 and the MC2022 complement each other. I have 36 hours on the AT and if it’s anything like the AT ART 1000 it will take 75 hours to fully run-in. The MC2022 is absolutely more resolute than the Epoch but the Epoch does that visceral thing:). Right tool, right job :) The Epoch will probably end up on my Kuzma 14” while the MC2022 stays on the Kuzma 11”.
I plan to start another thread specifically for the AT-MC2022 once it is run-in.
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I’ll have more to say concerning the juxtaposition of these two superb transducers as the MC2022 fully breaks-in.
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Mijostyn:
I hope you’re feeling better but I’m not sure to whom your replying. I didn’t mention the topics you brought up.
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