This situation all began when the government decided they wanted all of the analog channels in the current megahertz band ( including FM ) If things go according to plan then the big switch will happen in late 2009. There are various opinions about the FM frequencies, but most believe that they will be shifted. At any rate EVERYTHING is scheduled to go digital in late 2009. That indicates that a analog tuner will not be able to pickup a signal at all. Well unless of course you buy a digital converter for it. But that would be defeating the purpose, wouldn't it? So this is not a matter of people still owning their vinyl and they have big buck to persuade someone to make them a $50,000 turntable, this is a matter of bye bye analog, no choice in the matter. By the same token every analog tv will also need a digital converter. So why in the world does someone want to pay $2500 for a Sansui TU-X1 when in 2 years it will be nothing more than a door stop? |
Most of what I read was items listed in the technology sections of various web pages such as yahoo. I will do my best to find these pages agian though. But it is common knowlegde to any Best Buy or Circiut City or any other electronics store you go into. Even the CTR TV's over 24" have digital tuners in them now. I have been in the cable TV industry for over 12 years and we saw it coming 7 years ago. FCC mandate " All signals must be digital 12-29-09 "
I my self enjoy NPR through my analog tuner. I also listen to other stations and was actaully considering buying an even better Sansui tuner than what I have now. Then I remembered what was going to happen in 09. But the real kicker was when a small local station said they are getting close to launching 3 digital channels.
I agree, they are not HD, just digital. |
Here is a bit of it. You can read the entire concept if you follow the link and form your own opinion.
" The transition from analog to digital technology could be made in any number of ways--the possible architectures for a new band plan are as infinite as the engineering imagination. The most popular transition model in use around the world today is the Eureka 147. In this model, an existing radio station receives a new swath of spectrum from which to broadcast its digital signal. Over time, the station's analog signal is terminated and new stations are allowed to use the vacated bandwidth. This model has been proven effective in efficiently allocating new and existing audio space.
The U.S. implementation model before the Federal Communications Commission, however, is quite different. Called the In-Band-On-Channel plan, it allows existing stations to use the space on and around their current analog channel to broadcast the digital signal. For example, a station broadcasting at 97.9 would use the space between it and the stations next to it on the dial for its digital broadcasting. When its analog signal is eventually terminated, the entire swath of bandwidth would belong to that station. "
http://oldsite.prometheusradio.org/artdigital.shtml |
Bbro, If your digital box is macro blocking ( or tyling ) then you have a problem that should be serviceable. A good tech should be able to solve your riddle. If not then keep going up the comcast chain until someone important enough hears about it. Then you will get a good tech. If you try hard enough you should be able to find the e-mail address of the president for Penn. I know my president gets enough e-mail from irrates! Let me tell then people start scrambiling!
I am anticipating instead of static from a weak sation or a rainy day ( in digital radio ) we just wont get anything at all. |
Armstrod,
Alan Iverson was sitting in a commentators both once upon a time. The commentators were speculating on what was going on between two teams and who would win. They asked Alan his opinion and he said " The only guys that know is the guys on the floor "
So is it with this digital turn over. The people directly involved know what is going on, the rest of the people can only speculate. I'm sure the folks that do the posting on the FCC web site really don't have a clue what or when. That is reserved for a few select folks that are not saying anything. Of course there is a battle of how soon this will all happen, it was originally planned that all TV networks would be digital by the end of 2006. There are many reasons why that didn't happen. Amongst them would be the networks didn't want to buy all the expensive gear to make it possible. TV manufacturers didn't want to produce so many digital tuners ( they were to busy making money off of their analog ) And of course their were enough folks pressuring their buddies in office not to make it happen. However FCC did mange to have both Congress and Senate pass the 2009 deadline in to law. So unless there is another act of congress- For sure get ready for a change in how your TV receives ( or does not receive ) a picture. Will the radio stations also need to follow suit? Time will tell, but for sure the day is coming for the conversion. And it will happen.
Oh and in case you have not bought a car lately..... Check out what type of radio they have. |
Here is a start for you with the link below if you want to search further. I will also do some research on the raroi end of it. I myself hope they keep brodcasting my favorite analog station for years!
FCC tuner mandate: You may have heard that all TVs will have to be HDTVs by a certain date. That's not technically correct. The FCC has mandated that as of March 1, 2007, all new TV and video products imported into the U.S. or shipped to retailers that include an analog (NTSC) tuner need to have a digital ATSC tuner as well. There's a loophole though: if the product contains no tuner whatsoever--for TVs, this means it's a "monitor"--then the mandate does not apply. As a result of the mandate, nearly all televisions sold after that date should be ready for the analog switch-off.
Analog TV broadcast switch-off: In December 2005, the Senate passed a budget bill that calls for over-the-air television stations to cease their analog broadcasts by February 17, 2009. After that date, TVs and other gear with old-style NTSC tuners will be incapable of receiving over-the-air broadcasts. Part of the government's quandary is that the switch-off would cause thousands of TVs to go dark and would deprive many lower-income viewers of their only source of television. To address this issue, lawmakers propose to subsidize converter boxes that would allow people to watch the new digital broadcasts on their old analog TVs. The subsidy currently calls for $40 coupons to be given to households who want to buy the estimated $50 to $70 boxes. Given the slow progress over the last nine years since the introduction of digital and HDTV, we wouldn't be surprised to hear of more changes before 2009.
http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-7608_7-1016109-3.html |
Just so where are all on the same page ( and I could go into far greater detail but i don't want to bore you )
QAM-Quadrature amplitude modulation
is a modulation scheme which conveys data by changing (modulating) the amplitude of two carrier waves. These two waves, usually sinusoids, are out of phase with each other by 90° and are thus called quadrature carriershence the name of the scheme.
Unlike the analog Sinusoid or " sine wave which curves up and down much like alternating current does. And in case you wanted to know- " The television signal is made up of two parts, both related to each other by the frequency of the carrier signal. The image signal is amplitude modulated and occupies about three fourth of the total bandwidth (which is usually 6 megahertz) the audio component of the TV signal is frequency modulated and has a frequency in the range of the upper quarter of the band frequency range. "
In QAM, the constellation points are usually arranged in a square grid with equal vertical and horizontal spacing, although other configurations are possible. However it appears that in America we have chosen the " square gird " In the same space that one could place a 6 Megahertz analog signal, we can now place 12 digital channels in a 256 QAM pattern. This makes digital signal very desirable.
Unlike analog signal that can bleed over into an adjacent channel, and cause " co-channeling " Digital will NOT bleed over at all. The reason should be quite clear. With analog the Sinusoid can be distorted more easily ( on your analog radio you know doubt have heard another station bleed through ) when this happens it is possible to get the audio or picture of another tv station over yours. With digital we are not relying on these waves to stay so harmonious. We are relying on a grid to stay square, when it does not there is nothing left to bleed. You will also find many adjacent channels are gone as well. To keep our signal pure we simply need to keep the system " air tight " If the system is not air tight then we have what is know as BER ( binary digit error ) When to many errors occur you will experience " jittery audio " and or" tiling " or macro blocking " Most common cause of a system that is not air tight are bad connectors, poorly shielded cable, or low signal. Oh and don't forget when the customer decides he is qualified to do his own wiring, this is a major cause of the problems we find.. Every time I go past Radio Shack I cures those worthless gold plated screw on fittings and that RG59 cable!
Ok back to what I was saying....With analog signal the sound becomes weaker and weaker, the picture becomes grainy or snowy. With digital signal when you have BER it just plain disappears! There is NO bleed over, well at least in my 10+ years as a system-network tech for cable tv. Of course running a 256 QAM is more risky than a 64 QAM signal. But Cable television has got it perfected " as long as it is a air tight system " Anyone with a digital box will have to admit that a digital picture is clearer and more defined than without the box. I expect someday radio will also achieve this.
Sedond,
Your quote
" and, no, conventional fm isn't going anywhere any time soon "
Since you have said it I can take it as gospel? I am wondering if your the president of the FCC? |
Well! I guess you guys told me how it was, huh? I guess since you two have all the answers there is not much else for me to say.
Umm sorry I couldn't get back you sooner but my back went out. But I did find some interesting facts. But since nothing of you don't want to be confused with the facts ( since you already made up your minds ) I will leave you alone.
Ignorance is bliss
However I don't take back my challenge to Sedond. I do happen to have a friend that is employed by the FCC ( it took me sometime to track him down ) and even what he knows is limited. |
Well, when I was younger it used to drive me crazy when someone differed with my opinion. I found I was quite insulted that someone dared to have an opinion different from mine.
Now that I am older and more seasoned. I have learned that someone's difference of opinion to mine is just that. A diffence of opinion. Not an attack on my person.
At ease gentlemen..... |
oooooooooooohhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!! Such wisdom has entered into the thread!
Now I'm just trying to figure out which one I want to be ( sooner or later I will be one of them ) I guess I will choose redundant. Then I can keep my job, and I always did like to repeat things :)
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I'm not so sure we are supposed to understand it. I went through boot camp with a gent that had stopped studying psychology after he got his bachlors degree. He used to ask me silly questions such as: why do birds fly? I could think of obviuos answers, but I don't think he expected me to have the answer. He seemed to enjoy baffling people with questions a 5 year old would ask.
However regarding the statement of Acoustat6.
That would make Unclejeff one of the two? He does seem to agree with Acoustat6?
Just a thought |
Back to the subject ( and I speak unofficially ) From a Conversation I had with a reliable source. The government actually wanted no more analog stations at the end or 06. However there were no laws in place and even attempting to pass laws was difficult. It would be somewhat like attempting to pass a law to stop the oil prices from rising. Anyway when it was obvious that the TV manufactures and then folks transmitting the signals were not going to cooperate with the 06 deadline. The FCC ( and other government agencies ) got busy and found enough folks in the House and Senate to vote the 09 deadline for digital TV signal into law. As I said before the government wanted ALL of the analog signals already, including radio. If my source is correct ( and who can be with great certainty now days ) There will be another push to vote into law, a regulation to force the radio networks to broadcast in a completely digital format. Look for it no later than 2012 I was told.
Heck the government even bought out NEXTEL's Megahertz band which takes affect before 2012. Now that is clout!
On a side note. I remember when AMD released the first Athlon chip to the public. I saw the AMD rep in the store and he was proudly displaying this huge chip to all the would look. About a month later I was in a Best Buy store and I asked when the chip would be made smaller so it would fit in a laptop. The sales people in the computer department basically laughed me out of the store and told me " That will never happen " I told them some how it would happen, i had faith in technology. As I recall 6 months later I walked into that same Best Buy and they were selling laptops with the Athlon chip in them. Funny thing, those sales people were not working there any more.
I guess technology wont be stopped by our opinion ( or our desire ) of it not to improve. |
Qdrone,
Even if there is a digital to analog converter made for your analog tuner. Then your tuner will no longer be analog? And how would this device be hooked up to your tuner? Since your tuner is in fact a source, and it relies on a analog signal, from an antenna. I think it is not likely that a device will be made that will input a analog signal into your tuner input. That would be pointless.
One of the local stations in my neck of the woods has already expanded to 3 digital channels. One of them is where the old analog station was. I am still able to receive my with my analog tuner. However the station has gone to the trouble to convert the signal back to analog for now.
The cable TV company I am employed at is already digitally simulcasting ALL of their signal. which means if you have a digital box, you receive no analog signal to it. However if you have a analog TV you still receive the analog signal. It would appear my local radio station has followed suit. So that would mean i am really listening to a digital signal. And this is a route that could be taken for us old tuner people.
2012 is a goal. I think if our congressmen ( women ) get enough flack from the public. Who knows how long it could be?
I'm with you Sherod I want analog to stay for quite sometime.
Armstrod, if you run out of room for one of them tuners, let me know. I could always store it at my place :)
Acoustat6, what the? |
Well, looks like that is the end of it. If I happen along any other news I will post it ( assuming I can find the thread )
cheers! |
