Hi all would like info/opinions on quality interconnects 1-1.5 mtrs RCA-RCA ( & or Digital Cable )in the approx. $150-$200.+ range for my Mc MR85Tuner - Mc MA6900, and future( in the next few months ) CD -/- DVD Player possibly Arcam Diva DV79 or FMJ DV29 player or Mc MVP861 Universal Player or ? ...
I've heard that Audience are quite good, any thoughts ...
Must say I totaly agree with Tvad on this subject.all cable tests should always be qualified with in my system and a detailed list of what is hooked to what with what listed in order to give you a vague idea of what it could sound like if you had similar equipment.why not buy some well made cable inexpensive like kimber pbj and listen for a while.then go test drive the products of the snake oil merchants and if one is so better you have to own it go for it.listening in your system with your equipment is the only valid test.Go slowly listen carefully and dont waste your cash.
And, furthermore, having wiring professionally broken-in by one of the Audiogon vendors like George Saubon at cableburner.com can dramatically improve performance, even further. So, it can be cost effective to invest in better "break-in" along with use of Walker Audio SST to satisfy your desire for additional increments of better performance at moderate price.
This (as my fellow audiophools have stated) is a long winding road that you're going down. Oodles of threads on this in the archives. I started (and loved) with Latinternational ICs. Very reasonable price. Great $$/quality value. Fasten your seatbelt. Hey, have a ball doing your homework. If you purchase used, you won't lose a thing, 'cept (maybe) shipping. peace, warren
This seems to be a good opportunity to share my experience with interconnects in my system. I used to have Audience AU24 and always liked them but am going toward an all Audio Note set up so I bought Audio Note AN-V interconnects. The short story is that with my Audio Note amp I much preferred the Audio Note AN-V, the Audience was still very good (and an excellent deal) just less lifelike and a bit more hi fi sounding, things like extended frequency extremes which seem to distract from what is going on in the midrange. Anyway I told my friend about the AN-V and brought them to his house for a listen vs his AU24, as you may imagine, it was not the same results. Neither of us could hear a difference at all! None! Zilch! OK, well, maybe, mine were a bit warmer and I mean about 1% vs the 20% improvement at my house. You see my friend does not have SET tube amps like I do, he has big solid state Classe gear and it sounds excellent. We both knew to expect some difference between the two tests but this was massive, comparing the interconnects on two different systems came up with (subjectively) 20% difference in results.
I agree with the above posts. Having said that, I'll go out on a limb and say IMO the Ridge Street Audio Midnight Silver Edition Gen. I could be purchased on the used market within your price range and would most likely blow the competition (at that price range and higher) away. I have owned many interconnects and speaker cables (read my reviews) and can honestly say that I have never been disappointed with the product in my SS and/or Tube systems. Purchase what ever you like, I'm simply a very satisfied customer. Regards...
I ended up (after trying many of the cables recommened above - and more) with the AU-24 between CD and Preamp, VH Pulsar between Pre and Power, and Goertz MI-2 biwire between Power and Speaker; all are copper and within your price range.
In the interest of giving you another choice that's within your budget, add the Kimber Hero interconnects to your short list. They have received strong endorsements from a number of audio equipmnent reviewers, and they -- like all of the moderately priced Kimber products -- offer excellent value. I have participated in many "A-B" / double-blind cable tests over the past 20 years, and have not seen one of them produce results proving that people can distinguish audible differences between IC's at a statistically significant level.
If you intend to buy audiophile-quality speaker cable at a "reasonable" price, then you should strongly consider the Alpha-Core Goertz MI2 (copper) cables. Even our resident audio guru, Sean, endorses these cables as one of the best available at any price. For more info, see their very informative web site: www.alphacore.com/goertz.htm
I concur with the Alpha Core Goertz MI2 Veracity cables being easily the best $200 speaker wire out there that I have heard. I still sometimes wish I had them as they had superb tone in the midrange. I think the bass was fine too, not big and bloated like a lot of designs but neutral and defined in the one set up I once had.
BTW make sure you buy the exact model: Alpha Core Goertz MI2 Veracity, the MI3 is not as good, either is the Python.
Phasecorrect: The bass with the MI-2's can be as good or bad as your amplifier / speaker interface is. Given the low impedance of the cables themselves, they don't inhibit power transfer, so the amp can load into the speakers the best possible. There can be a drawback to this though. If you have an amp that is current limited, and you've now removed the "high impedance buffer" that most other speaker cables bring with them, the bass that you hear can actually get "sloppier". That's because the amp is being "sucked dry" and the lack of control becomes even more evident.
Using speaker cables with a higher nominal impedance reduces the current flow that the amp has to produce, giving the amp more breathing room. While this doesn't correct the problem of the speakers having sloppy bass, it doesn't compound the situation either. The use of Goertz in such an installation would end up providing a demonstration of what a poorly built and under-designed amp driving poorly built and under-designed speakers would sound like.
As a side note, the MI-3's present a load that is half the impedance of that presented by the MI-2's. While they will pass more power uninhibited, my experience leads me to believe that the MI-3's may be too low in impedance to work well with most amps. Amplifiers that are built like absolute tanks ( ala Krell, etc... ) probably wouldn't have a problem while other amps may end up getting "loaded down". Nelson Pass discusses using "less than ideal" speaker cables as an impedance transformer aka "band aid" between "less than perfect amps" and speakers that present very tough loads in his article entitled "Speaker Cables". This can be found on the Pass Labs website by clicking "articles".
By the way. That article was written and published in 1978. It would a appear that very few manufacturers and audiophiles have learned anything about the amplifier / speaker interface from that article and the research that Nelson performed, let alone think things through for themselves well enough to develop "more suitable" products. Sean >
PS... When i reference Goertz speaker cables, i am specifically referring to the "flat" series. The models in this series consist of the 13 gauge MI-1 "Center Stage", the 10 gauge MI-2 "Veracity" and the 7 gauge MI-3 "Divinity". These cables are all Copper with identical versions using an AG prefix. The letters "MI" stands for "Matched Impedance" and the "AG" versions are Silver rather than Copper. With both of these designs, the two conductors lay perfectly flat, one on top of the other.
For sake of clarity, the other "flat conductor spiral twisted" Serpent series of speaker cables are not of the same performance level and one should not confuse the two. As previously noted, regardless of what Goertz will tell you, you SHOULD install the impedance matching devices that they provide free of charge. If in doubt, consult the manufacturer of your amp and ask them if there product will have a tough time driving very wide-bandwidth high capacitance / low inductance speaker cables. They should know better what their product is capable of better than Goertz does.
Thx to all who responded with such ?!X&ISAD(*&(SD& ;)
Yes there are lots of forum post/threads , far far too many to read in even a month , thousands by the last glimpse, thought I'd get a fairly civil intelligent response ;) ... Oh well, I guess I'll go out & waste a few thousand dollars like some of the rest of you did, & respond in kind :)
once more Tvad mirrors my sentiments exactly.The TV system down stairs is comprised of old mistakes made by assumption.buy a well made cheaper high purity,copper,silver,rhodium,gold,carbon, flat,round,solid core,hollow oval, sheathed in plastic,polypropelene,teflon,with or with out a mesh shield,listen to it it has not cost too much.Get a baseline fixed.go to dealers test drive all types of cables,borrow friends cables,make some yourself,some eichman bullets and,there is a company near seatle in washington state that sells a high purity solid core silver with a teflon insulation used in the medical field.afraid its just not as easy as blind picking and being happy
Charandcafe, You might want to get a sense for how people generously share their experiences in this community before trashing them on your first go 'round. Believe it or not, everyone here is only trying to help. Ultimately, only trial and trial again will bring you to the point of answering your own question.
And on that note, yes Audience cables are quite good. But I did not find them to be the best match for my system. I can also say that it had nothing to do with the quality of the cable, but rather that they just didn't suit my listening preferences. Trial and trial. If you buy on Audiogon, you will find that there is no 'Error'. All the best, Howard
I tried the Alphacore Goertz MI -2s, liked them and ended up buying the Python MI-2s, which, to my ears sound even better than the original MI-2s and are much more durable. Highly recommended. Great service too from Alphacore.
I think the 'sweet spot' in the AZ IC lineup are the Matrix Reference MKI which are almost as good as the MKII and only about $175 - $200 and they easily better the WOW (which are quite good) for only about $50 more.
I should have stated that I have ProAc Tablette 50 speakers(shortly upgrading to the Tablette Reference 8 Signature speakers) on heavily weighted stands as is equipment(and using ? high end handmade purchased years ago, planning to also replace these shortly)... I had been usuing Levinson & Van den Hul IC's & other cables but I've had to move & rearrange my equipment rack to accomodate extra euipment & monitor etc. no room now & need extra length , 1.3-1.5 mtres blah blah blah ... I think you missed my point T,as I described the equipment (sytem) I am using (& plan to get)!!!, also, I have spent coutless hours & I mean more than I can remember reading at least 1/2 forums ( hundreds +++ )getting eye strain & headaches & neckaches trying to get some helpful info, that would save me ( wasting more $, as I have upgraded my system over the years, & I have yet to come up with anything to resolve this.
I Have numerous cables, that I cannot sell, that sit in a huge heap looking like mating'snakes in heat'! $ wasted as I cannot sell , so I prefer not thowing away more of my hard earned precious little resources ... I just returned from a very expensive trip to Asia & will go again in the spring ( I have other plans for my $ ) , so I want to keep this cable replacement endevour down to a dull roar, as I have already spent wasted $ thousands of $ that now sit breading & as I have now learned long ago, you cannort always sell what you buy usually sits taking up & wasting space (of which I have alot ), & esp. Not for what you paid for it, lucky if you get Even 50% in this day & age/market !!!...
As I have just ( last week ) received & hooked up my Mc MR85 Tuner to my Mc MA6900,( & will be upgrading the rest in a while, but want to enjoy the Tuner now), I though I might get a , at least a few intelligent helpful responses from maybe some that have or had similar equipment as I, but I guess/ obviously that is too much to ask ;),
Of course I know that everything being equal, which is not always the case,the system depend scenario is part of the equation...
Maybe you can afford to play & maybe win ( most likely & honestly not ) your ZERO Game, I cannot & plan not to ... A
So now the more I read 'Your' Helpful ;) responses this is sounding more & more like an elitest chess site/forum , where everybody is a so called smart *ss expert that can't come down from their high horse to respond in a helpful manner ...
In parting TVAD etc ( well actually there were a few insightful helpful appreciated responses, thx vm ) You can keep playing Your ZERO Game & think You are gaining & winning as you flush more of your endless $ & down Your Porcellan Goddess , but I choose not to , I will endur & enjoy inspite of You & Enjoy My $ system & Life ;)...
I should have stated that I have ProAc Tablette 50 speakers(shortly upgrading to the Tablette Reference 8 Signature speakers) on heavily weighted stands as is equipment(and using ? high end handmade purchased years ago, planning to also replace these shortly)... I had been usuing Levinson & Van den Hul IC's & other cables but I've had to move & rearrange my equipment rack to accomodate extra euipment & monitor etc. no room now & need extra length , 1.3-1.5 mtres blah blah blah ... I think you missed my point T,as I described the equipment (sytem) I am using (& plan to get)!!!, also, I have spent coutless hours & I mean more than I can remember reading at least 1/2 forums ( hundreds +++ )getting eye strain & headaches & neckaches trying to get some helpful info, that would save me ( wasting more $, as I have upgraded my system over the years, & I have yet to come up with anything to resolve this.
I Have numerous cables, that I cannot sell, that sit in a huge heap looking like mating'snakes in heat'! $ wasted as I cannot sell , so I prefer not thowing away more of my hard earned precious little resources ... I just returned from a very expensive trip to Asia & will go again in the spring ( I have other plans for my $ ) , so I want to keep this cable replacement endevour down to a dull roar, as I have already spent wasted $ thousands of $ that now sit breading & as I have now learned long ago, you cannort always sell what you buy usually sits taking up & wasting space (of which I have alot ), & esp. Not for what you paid for it, lucky if you get Even 50% in this day & age/market !!!...
As I have just ( last week ) received & hooked up my Mc MR85 Tuner to my Mc MA6900,( & will be upgrading the rest in a while, but want to enjoy the Tuner now), I though I might get a , at least a few intelligent helpful responses from maybe some that have or had similar equipment as I, but I guess/ obviously that is too much to ask ;),
Of course I know that everything being equal, which is not always the case,the system depend scenario is part of the equation...
Maybe you can afford to play & maybe win ( most likely & honestly not ) your ZERO Game, I cannot & plan not to ... A
So now the more I read 'Your' Helpful ;) responses this is sounding more & more like an elitest chess site/forum , where everybody is a so called smart *ss expert that can't come down from their high horse to respond in a helpful manner ...
In parting TVAD etc ( well actually there were a few insightful helpful appreciated responses, thx vm ) You can keep playing Your ZERO Game & think You are gaining & winning as you flush more of your endless $ & down Your Porcellan Goddess , but I choose not to , I will endur & enjoy inspite of You & Enjoy My $ system & Life ;)...
Yes, I should have made it clearer , but was in a hurry when I wrote it was on my out, also the 2nd post as you can tell from the numerous errors (sp) & in what was put in & left out.
Anyhow aside from that , it is not so easy here to deal with the few dealers with the limited choice & difficulty in borrowing or using in your system to see how they fare for a adequate period of time ( esp. if they need braking in ) 2-4 weeks or so . that's 1 huge problem , and selling 2nd hand used cables is a Royal PAIN IN THE Ass, more trouble than it's worth to me, sorry to say !!!
Also it's very diff. to get back & change or alter my cabling & anything back there, so must be more than sure that the change might hopefully / should be worth it
After my 2nd post & seemingly few positive responses, I got ahold of somebody that could get them ( not a reatier & so cut out the middle man )& let me try both of these cables below ( not sure if I could get other cables in a timely fashion, as I wanted & needed to get this done now, Xmas coming & have company coming soon)so, as from some posts & reviews floating around, I decided to try the Au24 IC's , and got a 2nd Au PC for my Mc MR85 Tuner , already have one on my Mc MA6900, will be getting a 3rd to go along with my Shunyata Power Snake DiamondBack PC's ...
I also got a loan of a new pair of Analysis Plus Oval 9 Speaker Cables all on the weekend , so will no hopefully sooner than later how all fare , well actually I have to replace my CD/DVD p to truly hear the overall diff, but at least I'll know from the Tuner ...
It's been along time since I've changed my cabling ( long long overdue ) & was dreading the fact I have to go back there & tackle this migrane , so that's why I required some thoughtful positive user input , from some ppl that have had experience with some of these to give me a head start & maybe same me a bigger more problematic expensive headache , as I mentioned it is very diff. to tackle this situation on my own ...
So without further ado, I've made the leap & hopefully I 'll be ahead of the game & land on my feet running ... ( Zero Sum Or Not & I do understand that but have yet to win or even come close to getting even, never mind taking alot of Audio & Financial boondoggles , [ just look in my locker :( ... ]
I understand also it's diff. for diff. ppl, so I try to budget as much as I can reasonably afford as I have limited funds unlike some ppl, by the equipment they have & how often they change it ,( maybe more than I should & then some ) trying to keep it down to a dull roar as I said, & then still have enought to take 8 weeks off here & there & go to Mexico in the winter or Korea & Japan etc. Man does not live on sitting in & listening & watching ;)
The world is out there beckoning & there is much to see & learn & enjoy :) & then come home & listen & watch ;)...
I will know in a few weeks or month with or without my new DVD/CDP ...
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