Hi Nandric,
I have emailed you the details about the cartridge and hope it turns out well. Do let me know.
On the issue about the similarities across brands and cartridges, I am not so certain. If you look at the patent data that I posted here on 05-30-12, you see that the differences seem to exceed styli alone. I believe that both Glanz and Astatic used Mitachi who - as the OEM - designed to distinct customer specifications and/or conditions at the time/s. And, yes I am acutely aware of Goebbles' maxim concerning the forceful repetition of an inaccuracy leading to it becoming accepted as fact. Yet my logic here relates to the noted patented distinctions, my own auditioning of the top the range models in both makes, and now to the styli distinctions that your reseach has helpfully identified. (On your question, "no" I really don't think there would be any mileage in sharing your findings on this particular matter with Raul.)
As I also suggested in my second post of 05-23-12, there are other grounds why I am not certain of the distinctions between the noted cartridges. I think I've also raised the question on 06-24-12 about distinctions regarding types of magnets and their arrangements.
Yet, as I say, these reflections are based on my noted triangulated logic and need not be wholly accurate: except that the performance distinctions are certainly profound and notable. Maybe your experimentation will prove the case to be otherwise regarding construction and so I'm hopeful that you do get hold of the cartridges and share your findings and impressions. It can only help.
As always... |
Dear Dgob, Wishful thinking is a strong psychological part
of our hobby. But I added logic to it as follow: all the
top line Astatic and Glanz carts have the same body (aka
'generator') and the only difference are the styli.
According to this logic the G 7, 5 and 3 should have the
same 'generator' but different styli. So, if you will
be so kind to give me the address for this G3 I would
be very grateful (nikola et andric.com). My search on
the net was without result. BTW I inspected the styli of
'all' Astatics- (2x) and Glanz carts (2x) that I own
with my (50x) hand microscope and discovered that the Glanz
styli are of better quality than Astatic. Should I tell this to Raul?
Regards, |
Hi Nandric,
If you're sure. Good luck looking and let me know if you find any of these targets and about your consequent impressions.
You're also undoubtedly correct about all Glanz not being exceptional. I can really only vouch for the G5 and G7 (which still stands as their ultimate cartridge in the literature that I have read). Incidentally, I know there is a G3 available for sale at present but have no experience with that model. Maybe worth a punt if you're of the school of trying all of a producers line and not accepting their perception of the pecking order. I know many are.
I'm honestly not certain if the various series were produced by the same engineers or companies and any time line differences. Much to learn.
As always... |
Dear Dgob, thanks for your good intentions but I don't
believe that you have as much of spare time as I have to
search. I am a retired civil servant with good pension...
Dear Vetterone, I think that my Astatic MF 200 sounds better
with the stylus from the Glanz 31 L ( line contact)
while my Glanz 31 E sounds better with the stylus from the
Astatic 300. You should try exchanging those styli instead
of buying inferior Glanz versions. It is ,alas, not the case that
all Glanz carts are exceptional.
Regards to both, |
Sorry Nandric but I am sure you will be fine as there will always be another "must have" to hunt down.
I did buy the Glanz MFG-11T off eBay the other day. Had not seen one of those for sale until then. It has a Titanium cantilever so it can't be all bad. Hope it is as good as the MF-200. Will give my impressions later. |
Hi Nandric,
:~)
I will keep a keen eye out for them and notify you (possibly off site) as soon as I spot anything. Is there a spending price limit that you would set for each of them?
As always... |
Dear Dgob, This to me is like dating Michelle Pfeifer or
Nocole Kidman and suggesting to us to try the same. Now those 'girls' at least exist and are in theoretical or imaginary sense attainable. But I have never seen the Glanz 7 or 5 nor the Technics 100 mk IV anywhere. Vetterone already made my life misarable with this 'misterious' Glanz 61 for which I search all ebay sites that I can read and even those that I can't read while I am supposed to spend as much time as possible to listen to my records. BTW the tonearms are not a problem in my case; I own 8 of those. If you can provide the source for any of those carts I can ask Van den Hul for assistence for their adjustment in one of those arms.
Regards, |
Sorry,
I am not aware of the existence or location of a mount moerch!
I was of course referring to Hans and should have said: "with the kind assistance of Mr. Moerch". |
Hi Nandric/All,
On the issue of cartridge comparisons, I am currently optimising my Morch DP-6 tonearm with the kind assistance of Mt. Moerch. As I have told Raul and demonstrated to close friends and family, the combination of the DP-6 and Technics 100 Mk4 cartridge moved my expectations of analogue replay to a new level.
My Glanz G5 and G7 cartridges in my Audio Craft AC3300 LB tonearm are the closest comparison I have come across and the G7/AC3300 seem to exceed the Moerch/Technics combination in certain aspects of their performance. HOWEVER, my Moerch has been a trusty companion for over thirty years and needed optimising. Hence my current preoccupation.
Once I have completed the work, I will be able to run a full comparison of both cartridges and tonearm/cartridge pairings. I'll most likely post my findings and impressions once that is completed.
As always... |
Nandric,
I did not take the time to swap stili between bodies. All of the 3.5mv Mitachi generators most likely sound the same or very close but to be sure, I will experiment later. I think I have six different bodies between Astatic and Glanz. Could prove interesting.
The MF-61 has its own booklet that mentions no other Glanz products. As I posted a while back, all it says is that "MFG-61, as the most prestige model among Glanz cartridges...". My sample came new in the box. Under close inspection I am sure it had never been mounted or used. The cantilever is boron but it is much smaller in diameter than the boron cantilever supplied these days by Ogura. I would guess 30% smaller. I bought it off eBay many years ago before I had read the MM thread on A'gon. I had been studying cartridge designs and moving flux and moving iron seemed to be the best design, in theory at least so I was buying cheap samples to try. It came from Peru or Portugal I think. I did see one listed a few years ago. I wish I would have bought it but at the time, I had not yet tried the MFG-61 and had no idea how special it is. Silly me. |
Dear Vetterone, By my MFG 31l the user manual is included
with the nomenclature of the whole series. There are 51 and 71
(L and E) above the 31 but 61 is not mentioned. That
is why I called this one 'mysterious'. I also own the 31 E
but am , like you with the 51 E , not very impressed. BTW
deed you try the stylus from the 31 L in the 51 cart?
The strange thing is that I have never seen any Glanz on the German ebay.
I got my specimens from the UK.
Regards, |
Vetterone,
I know what you are saying about the 61 because I feel exactly the same about the G7 (and in different ways, about the G5 - they are so different in various areas and I suspect the G5 would be closer to the MF200). The more I test them the more certain I become of their magnificence and the more frustrated I feel that I cannot find anyone (apart from the Hong Kong retailer) who has experience with these and can/will discuss. Given that, I would dearly love the opportunity to hear the 61 and compare.
I still think that the restraint and control of the bass on the Technics 100Mk4 is slightly superior but the differences are more in accord with distinct venues than distinct or inaccurate renditions of the instrument itself. Again, marvellous! I stand in hope of hearing further from you on these matters.
Do give some form of exchange or audition plan a consideration and thanks for the information.
As always... |
Nandric,
Many thanks for the feedback. Good luck with your serach for the 61 and I would, of course, love to hear your results and any further opinions about the Glanz.
Gratefully received
As always... |
Same results here Nandric. The MF200 and 31L are very close sonically and both sound very good. The 51E is not even close, at least with the stock cantilever/stylus. A good candidate for a retip I suppose. Without doing a direct comparison, I have to say the MF 61 is the best sounding MM/MI/MF cart I own.
Just a great balance of dynamics, tonality, texture, detail and sparkle up top.
I have heard better bass from a few other carts but not by much. |
Hi Dgob, I compared Raul's 'darling' Astatic MF 200 with
the Glanz MFG 31 L and was not able to hear any difference.
I even switched the styli with the same result. Both are
excelent carts. I am still searching for the 51, 71 and this mysterious 61.
Regards, |
Hi All,
With nearing 20,000 readers, I am pleased that this thread is still of interest to others. However, I really would appreciate more input - particularly concerning the Glanz tonearms.
The G7 (and G5, although hugely different in performance) is still very much recommended for your 'best of the best' shortlists!
As always... |
Hi Nandric,
Firstly, apologies for my apparent tardiness in responding: personal life and such has had its way.
Anyhow, the best way to follow or use the Japanese market might be to use Google Translation to translate the actual auction sites, their products and bidding and then join up to Rinkya, Japan. They conduct the bidding, which is especially useful for auctions where the seller stipulates Japanes only bidders! They will then arrange for delivery and shipping to you. This it the way that Sinyo123 advised me and it has worked in my case also.
About the range, many thanks for the additional information. I wonder if the 61o and 31o are therefore later models or part of a similar line. Also, what are the differences between ranges (if such they be) and what are their optimised strengths? I know that the 61 is said to use a Shibata - according to the review piece in the noted Grammaphone. I would guess that the 31 L would be the line contact version in keeping with their labelling. Given their range and options, I wonder do they all use Samarium Cobalt magnets and, if so, how many, what types (MGOe) and in which arangements? I am humbled by the amount still for me to learn.
I think that the chart you show has formed a large part in my uncertainties. It misses so many apparently linked cartridges (the G series, 61o, 31o) that I become more curious about the links between these and, of course, the differences. The cartridge database gives the G series but has clear gaps and limitations to its information. Bit by bit, maybe we can piece together the cartridges that represent the Glanz range and their merits.
I do hope so.
As always... |
Dear Dgob, I got my first Glanz. The MFG 31 L. But what is
more the user manual is included. According which the series consist of 5
carts each of them with either line contact or elliptical
stylus: 71 L/E, 51L/E, 31 L/E, 11 T/11R. As you can see
there is no 61 with whatever stylus. I know that Vetterone
is an inventor so, probable, he invented the 61?
The specs reg. inductance is the same for all ,impedance is the same by 71 and 51 while the output is also the same for all. Ergo the difference must be the cantilever. I own
the Astatic MF 200 which looks as a twin brother or sister
of the Glanz but the stylus of the MF 200 is Shibata.
The Japanese have obviously their own logic. There is no
mention of cantilever material except by 31E and 11 T
with a kind of a cryptic description: 'Titanium bonded line
contact and/or titanium bonded elliptical'. Probable because of the mentioned logic there is no such description by (my) 31 L by which, I would hope, the line contact stylus suggested by the letter 'L' is somehow fitted to the cantilever. Why they 'bonded line contact stylus in the elliptical 31 E ' is an enigma to me. I also got the 'punishment' for my carts greedyness because I accumulated 6 different carts in one
month time and have no idea with which to start. Anyway the 31 L is the cheapest of them all so , I hope,this one will get his turn somewhere in June or July next year.
Regards, |
Dear Dgob, What a pity that you bolted even your windows
because my intention was to bring my Zeta, Lustre 801 and
Sumiko 800 for you to try. My FR-64S (+ B-60) is ,alas
for you, meant for my heir (the legal one).
I am reluctant to admit that I never succided to reach any
Japanese ebay site. Not even such a big company like Ogura
for those microridge styli for Alex. I wrote 5 emails to
all of Ogura divisions but they are probable not able to
understand my English? The 'Topclass' however I have seen
twice and, considering their prices, I have no intention whatever
to visit their site for the third time. Will you be so kind
to teach me how to reach the Japanese ? Should
I try Russian, Serbo-Croation, German or Dutch?
Regards, |
Hi Nandric,
I've just bolted the windows.
:~)
But seriously, I have seen a few come up for auction at Yahoo Japan (sadly missing out myself: most often due to time delays and differences). I finally got mine from Tommy at Topclass (Hong Kong). With time, I am certain more will appear and I can at least see dissenting or supporting perspectives.
As always... |
Hi Dover,
I am still using the Audiocraft with its AP300 armwand. If you use this, you need to use its own template to check and adjust the cartridge but once you do so... I would still like to explore other arms to see if there is even more to be eeked out of its performance. I have spoken to Hiroshi at Sibatech who informs me that:
"Mr.Masataka Hamada (Glanz tone arm designer) confirms both G5 and G7 accommodate and suit very well his new tone arm, called The Glanz, even in terms of 18g integrated weight (Maximum adaptable weight is 40g)."
However, with financial times still not great, I would love to hear from other (external) parties who have a view on their arms etc. Fingers crossed, that feedback will be quicker in arriving than has any around the G series Glanz.
As always... |
Dear Dgob, The only possibility to get this remarcable G7 is to rob someone who owns this treasure and the only such a person I know is...
Till then, |
Hi Dgob,
Which tonearm were you using with the Glanz G7, was it the Audiocraft ? |
Hi All,
Just to note that I had a few friends over for the weekend: two of whom are gifted musicians. On hearing my Glanz G7, they suggested that they 'believed'the performances (including Miltstein's Bach) - meaning that they felt it presented the actual live events.
This was in comparison to my Technics P100c Mk4 and was based on the greater dynamic abilities of the Glanz. The classical guitarist was particularly impressed by the sheer quality of detail/information that was passed through it and how (to paraphrase) 'the music simply did not seem to emanate from mechanical and electronic equipment'. He has heard many manifestations of my systems but this was the first time it was greeted with such shock and awe.
I mention this because it pleased me beyond words. I respect more than I can say their musicianship and honesty and found an unexpected degree of satisfaction. Yes, it was easy for me to appreciate their views because they obviously complied with my own. Nevertheless, I am now even more hopeful that others will be afforded the opportunity to share that experience.
Simply magnificent!!
As always... |
Hi All,
Any knowledge of and/or experience with the above noted Glanz tonearms (or about Sibatech) would still be appreciated. Feel free to respond off-site if needs be.
As always... |
Dear Dgob, Sorry for your 'argument' but 'aestethic in its
wider...sense' make no sense. Raul is very clear in his
statement reg. function versus aestethics. I myself am very
impressed with the 'aestethics' of the FR-64s. But I
would never state that FR-64s is functionaly very good tonearm
because of its aesthetics. Those are different criterions.
Regards, |
Hi Raul,
BTW, I was using the term "aesthetic" in its wider Baumgarten sense around sensitivities that include 'sonic beauty' (the limitations of his wider political applications not withstanding). But as I say, let's keep it to catridges and you are welcome not to contribute anything further on this thread: if, as you seem to be suggesting, that is your wish.
However, as long as I find your apparently contradictory criticisms holds concerns that need to be addressed for the benefit of any potential users, I will attempt to address them.
As always... |
Hi Raul,
Am I missing something or did I start this thread (with a clearly announced focus and purpose) and you then select to contribute opinions herer that I cannot appreciate?
Either way, let's keep it to the cartridges under discussion!
As always... |
Dear Dgob: +++++ " to aesthetic judgements ... " ++++
you are absolutely wrong with me. I posted several times even for some time in my Agon virtual system I writed: " I don't care about aesthetic but about quality performance, nothing less and nothing more. ".
Aesthetics is not the trouble it is only that your common sense is way different from mine. My whole audio experiences through the years is way different from you and seems to me, for your post where you take your time to revise the longest thread on Agon only to find out how to show other people that 3 years ago I had a different point of view, that you have a " problem " of personality with me.
Please forget about me on this subject: forgeret what I think about.
Why do you care so much about, so much that you take a lot of time to find out what I posted 3 YEARS AGO ?, my God!!!
Certainly IMHO you are not helping any one with your attitude and even I think you could make a " damage " to your self, don't do it: it is not worth to do it !!!!!
Regards and enjoy the music,
R. |
Hi Raul,
I was only sticking on a point that recurred and I am of course pleased that you accept the possiblity of being wrong (although I am not really sure that I believe it is as simple as being right or wrong when it comes to aesthetic judgements!). I have shared and will no doubt share that position again.
My interest here is only with a piece of equipment, which my auditioning leads me to believe is an excellent performer. Personalities are not an issue. Honestly.
As always... |
Dear Dgob: Please do it your self a favor: don't be sticky with me on this subject.
It can't help you and it can't help to any one looking this thread.
Whom cares What I thinked on an audio subject 3 years ago or 7-10 years ago, makes no sense to me your post other that try to show that I'm " wrong ".
Dgob, if that makes you happy then I can accept I'm wrong. So what? what difference does that makes against my today opinion in that subject?
Please forget about me and like till today enjoy your cartridge as many other integrated cartridges proponents are doing it.
Regards and enjoy the music,
R. |
Dear Dgob: That was in 2009, we all have the right to learn to grow up. I'm not married with any audio subject, as the life in audio " things " change and change when we give us the opportunity to learn the opportunity to think in a different way.
Again, in a vintage integrated cartridge the " aquila's heel " is precisely those vintage old internal wires/connectors and of course the non-flexibility to make the best cartridge set-up for the cartridge could shows us at its best.
There are other " inconvenients " in a vintage cartridges but are not the subject here.
Regards and enjoy the music,
R. |
Hi Raul,
I just found your post of 09-21-09 on the MM/MI thread and thought I detected a change in your comments a few years later. This does make me wonder where the intervening problems reside:
"Dear Dgob, You point out the advantages that a integrate headshell cartridge ( like the Glanz you own or the Audio Technica AT-25 or Technics Pc100 and some other MM type cartridges. ) has but I think that you don't mention what IMHO is the more important subject: in a cartridge that comes with a integrated headshell there is no headshell wires/connectors ( at least not in the form we know. ), the connection is more direct and in " theory " less signal degradation that with a so low level signal is something important to care about."
Nothing added or taken away.
As always... |
Dear Vetterone, If you mean some 'curious' sense for humor
I agree. But I still try to learn English so, alas, some of
the American proverbs or the way of speaking are not clear to me. But Lew is always willing to help in this regard. I even think that he likes me. Slavic bonds I assume.
Regards, |
Nandric, sounds like you have the makings of another country & westren song. |
Hi Nandric,
:~)
As always... |
Dear Dgob, I got a warning from you reg. the Glanz 55a.
My to you is entailed in the following. I exchanged some
books with an acquaintance and lost my wife as well as
some books.
Regards, |
Hi Vetterone,
"the 31E does not have the detail or the speed of the 31L but it does have a seduction to the music that will make most listeners smile. As nice as both 31'a are, the 61 is in another league."
I am seriously open to some cross-cartridge exchange, as I am becoming dubious about the ready availability of either the 61 or G7. Maybe we could start with you sending me your model to compare and then I could send you my G7 to the same end. Failing that, I'd still be interested in a copy or scan of any Glanz literature.
Let me know
As always... |
That could be a country & western song. The difference between C&W and blues songs? Blues tend to make you feel better, C&W will drive you to drink.
Now to get this back on track, compared the MFG 31E to the 31L the last two nights. Have to say the 31E does not have the detail or the speed of the 31L but it does have a seduction to the music that will make most listeners smile.
As nice as both 31'a are, the 61 is in another league. |
Vetterone- You think you got troubles, consider the composer of the classic blues tune:
"Nobody Loves Me But My Momma and She Could Be Jivin' Too." |
Dear Vetterone, I am really sorry to have caused such a
dramatic impact. I am sure that your dog will love you provided you feed him well. The problem is, if it is a problem, that the Balkanes like to tease each other.This
is our way to show whom we like. Strange perhaps but true.
BTW I would never risk a possible complain by Vidmantas.
Kind regards, |
Hi Vetterone,
"It [the MFG 61] is a wonderful sounding cart. Maybe someday I can compare it to a G7. That would be interesting don't you think?"
I will glady supply my contact details if you fancy sending yours on a short journey!
As always... |
Sorry for the delayed response guys but I have been in a terrible sad state since Nandric reminded me that I have no friends, only turntables to keep me company. I now wonder if my dog likes me...I thought she did but, who knows.
One thing is for sure, the MFG 61 is designed to be the top MF cart and the MFG 51E is the cart with training wheels. The MFG 31 series are the mid level carts. I will say a MFG 31L will embarrass some of the flavors of the week from the other thread. It is quite good. The 51E's cantilever reminds me of Hillary Clinton's cankles. That is thick! Dgob found a statement that said the MFG 61 has a hollow boron cantilever. Maybe some do but mine has solid boron cantilever with the end ground to an angle parallel to the LP surface. The stylus body is maroon/dark red in color. Body is silver. I have had mine for some time and it was new in the box with the original paperwork. It is a wonderful sounding cart. Maybe someday I can compare it to a G7. That would be interesting don't you think?
Bummer about the MFG 61 box Nandric. |
Dear Dgob, Thanks for your worry but I wrote 'my Glanz' with quatation marks. I was in what lawyer call 'pre contractual' or 'negotiation' state of affair. It took me
some time but I learned from the Dutch how to negotiate.
Ie if a Dutchman agrees with your price direct than your negotiation capabilities are (very)questionable.
So again thanks for your worry as well as for the warning.
Regards, |
Hi Nandric,
That is no small disappointment. The Glanz 1G-55R is a notably lower end Glanz and I think the seller needs to refund your money. Maybe it is a genuine mistake and he has simply boxed the items wrongly.
Fingers crossed and let us know.
As always... |
Dear Dgob&Vetterone (?), There is a problem with 'my'
Glanz. The box is from the MFG 61 but inside the box
there is a 'new animal': Glanz 1 G -55 a. I always hope to see in
whatever box something better than the markings suggest
but this time I have no idea what to think.
Can you help? |
Hi Nandric,
Hopefully, your Glanz wont let down the performance standards set by your other new acquisitions.
I look forward to hearing.
As always... |
Dear Dgob, Not sure if Vetterone will react on your invitation. This will depend on his sense for humor. That is to say if he likes the Balkan kind. I now understand why you are so desperate to convince all of us about the superiority of your G7. For such kind of money some are willing to kill. Meanwhile I received the Italian packet.
The Krell MC 100 looks fantastic and as a twin brother or suster of the Miyabi Standard. Takeda also produced the same cart for Levinson (MLC10) and Cello. My advice: look for those. The Sony XL 88 looks poor in comparison but this regards
only the looks. Thuchan however is very fond of this cart and ensured me big suprise. I wrote to the Italian seller that I received his carts and now hope that he will also say something about the MFG 61.
Regards, |
Incidentally,
The price quoted for the MG-70 (£1.5k) is around the price I paid for my own Glanz, which were in immaculate condition. It's not cheap for moving magnets but it's still better than a MC of anywhere near their performance levels (not that I have any experience with any such MC cartridge at present!).
That reassurance just about keeps me from dispair!
As always... |
Hi Nandric,
I'm wondering if Glanz (as with other manufacturers of the time) might have released several ranges. That would mean that the normal (Line contact or elliptical) options in their already discussed MFG range could exist along side the MFG-31o and MFG-61o etc? Maybe Vetterone can chip in here with more hard data or information.
If your 61o comes with the associated literature, maybe you could share your knowledge with us when you have it. I look forward to hearing about your pending arrival and your impressions.
Good luck
As always... |
