Dear Lewm: Integrated headshell cartridge designs were a trend a fashion on those old times. As I said the way of thinking on that subject was how 40 years ago manufacturers thinked.
What Nandric pointed out has no sense: how any one could think that magnets can't go in an stand alone design??, IMHO Nandric can't assume that he assumed but with out foundation and about the SPU/EMT that's only to fans ( mainly in Asia. ) of that kind of sound.
Anyway, I made my points and till here I can't see/read any argument that was/is strong enough to convince the common sense and experiences about.
Regards and enjoy the music,
R. |
Dear Raul, What I assumed reg. the FR-7 is that I quoted
J. Carr correctly . He called the FR-7 'big,heavy monster'
(FR 7 thread; 05-26-09).It is also a fact that FR-7 was never produced as stand alone cart. Why not? With your own 'foundations' you should be able to answer the question. You also dismissed Ortofon SPU and EMT with a very strange 'foundation' : for some silly Japanese? Both carts are still produced so obviously there is demand for them. I don't believe that those who buy them care very much for your arguments. BTW from the same FR-7 thread I 'deduced' that you are pretty fond of this integrated cart? My own objection is that they are impractical . That is to say impractical for me. Everyone else is free to think what he likes.
Regards, |
Dear nandric: I repeat, those integrated headshell designs were a fashion on those old times and in many ways more marketing that a scientific achievment.
Almost all the cartridge manufacturers of this kind of designs were tonearm manufacturers too: Technics, Audio Technica, FR/Ikeda, Yamaha, Sony, ADC, etc, etc.
Wonder where those integrated headshell designs performs the " better "?, you are right!: with its tonearm counterpart designed by the same cartridge manufacturer.
I owned several of those integrated headshell designs on those old times and I remember the USA distributors/sellers how they push to the integrated designs against its stand alone brothers, curios was that normally first appears the stand alone one and suddenly after that the integrated headshell design arrived and some " stupid " people like me goes through the integrated designs too!. At the end we owned two same model cartridges that means profits$$$ for the manufacturers: who cares?????
Japanese manufacturers does not cares about those " high end " tonearms with non removable headshell designs ( the Lewm argument. ) because almost all of them have on sale their own tonearm designs that were the " best " tonearm match. The integrated cartridge designs were on sale mainly in Asia, then Europe and in lesser way in America.
Marketing always has an important " weight " on audio item designs and in many cases with no clear audio quality parameters/factors as its foundation.
Btw, 80% of the sales on Ortofon/EMT integrated cartridge designs goes to Asia where today still exist a " cult " for that kind of sound.
I don't see that you and the other " proponents " of integrated headshell designs have wide experiences with this kind of cartridges.
Regards and enjoy the music,
R.
|
Hi Nandric,
"You also dismissed Ortofon SPU and EMT with a very strange 'foundation' : for some silly Japanese?"
I am not wholly surprised. Cartridge/people? An easy digression!
As always... |
Raul,
Everyone is free to read and judge your comments and make their own decisions: hopefully in the light of a few facts:
1. You have simply NEVER heard the cartridges about which you have repeatedly announced a keen dislike!? [That underpins your desperate scratching around to find things/a logic that - "apparently" - support your hatred.]
2. You have now contradicted every tenet on which you argued the case for antique MM/MI cartridges and you have done so in a manner that would have been more fitting of the received wisdom that often stated that MC's were more modern and therefore better?
Is this mere dishonesty? Or is it an ego related failing? I am not certain. It does make we wonder about your constant exclamations that "I have said all I have on Glanz" (assumedly here meaning, 'nothing').
No, your willingness to spit out negative comments about a cartridge that you feel no shame in admitting that you have never heard seems to suggest more hidden motives and recalls the recently mentioned bard. As the infamous Iago concludes his part in the drama that he has helped to unfold:
"Iago: 'Demand me nothing. What you know, you know. From this time forth I never will speak word."
And yet, as though some monarch-like ghost wondering the battlements of his demise, here you stand providing what seems to me to be the same blind criticism.
I'm only saying
As always... |
Dear Dgob, Because your thread , as I already mentioned,
become 'who knows better' our beloved Henry decided to
move your thread to the right place: the MM thread.
I love the guy and will follow. As you know my beloved Frege was obsessiv about 'foundations' so I, as a good student, will try to question some of Rauls 'foundations'. He, it seems, is also very fond of 'foundations' but thinks that his are the only 'right one'. This of course is a very strong indication that he 'knows better' and that is and was my point. No more 'shine' alas for your Glanz as separate thread.
Regards, |
Hi Nandric,
I'm not really sure that I follow your last post but that seems fine!?
As always... |
Sorry Nadric,
It's early here and so I just spotted the linguistic link (shine, glanz).
I would hope that the repeating on the MM/MI thread might bring more Glanz users forward. I'd still like the forms of discussion around set up tips, tonearm matching preferences, vtf, sra etc. I'd also love to think that some former or current users of the Glanz G series would have anecdotal and personal reflections that might help situate these gems in experiiental time and space.
As always... |
Dear Raul, this thread is moved to our regular MM thread.
I have no idea why you count me as 'proponent' of the integrated carts? I owned just one, the FR-7, but never used the thing. I am on your side in this dispute but my
reason is not connected with the performance but with the lack of practicality in my case.
Regards, |
Hi All,
Does anyone know of or have anything useful to say about the following? http://www.sibatech.co.jp/glanz/index.html.
I am just concidering their potential performance and how might match with the G series so I would appreciate any information here also.
As always... |
Hi All,
Fleib posted the following on the MM/MI thread:
"Using a removable headshell you're much more likely to have vibrations remain in the headshell as they hit the headshell coupling. I have some arms with removable headshells, and I think this is true. IMO it's better to avoid additional resonance, retain greater arm rigidity, and allow the arm to dissipate mechanical energy."
This seems to make sense to me and might explain (in part) the biggest comparitive difference in the performance of the integrated cartridges that I have recently explored. This would still be the case even 'if' all other design factors were the same. That would also suggest the grounds behind Nagaoka and Glanz views of their own benchmark cartridges!
As always... |
The above obviously relates to additional couplings and mechanical response - although not really treating of the issues surrounding coupling disparate build materials. The universal headshell and fixing screws are of course, as has already been pointed out, a useful way to tune in our prefered distortions.
As always... |
Does anyone knows anything about the Glanz MFG 61?
This one I can buy from some Italian seller.
Regards, |
Sorry Nandric,
I have never heard it. However, if it is the MFG-61'L', it should be a good buy. I think that if you can get it at a reasonable price, it will be useful just to explore for yourself. Obviously, I do rate the Glanz that I have tried and other fora are positive about other Glanz.
Good luck either way
As always... |
Yes Nandric, I know of the MFG 61 |
Dear Vetterone, The intention of my question was to get
advice reg. the purchase of the MFG 61. From your answer
I can conclude that you prefer to keep your knowledge for
yourself. I know that you are a kind of inventor but the
so called 'know how' in the context of the intellectual property
apply for your turntables and not carts. Or so I thought.
Regards, |
Nandric, I answered your question. Knowing lawyers as I do, I would never put forth anything more than what was asked from them. In fact most lawyers would never ask a question for which they did not already know the answer.
I hate to assume anything.
Now that you tell me of your intentions, I will gladly give you more information on the MFG 61. If you have not done so already. BUY IT! According to the info sheet included with the MFG 61, Glanz says
"MFG 61, as the most prestige model among Glanz MF cartridges..."
Obviously, the MFG 61 is the top of the line, even above the MFG 70/71 models.
There is no 61L model as Dgob was assuming.
A question for you Nandric, what is your favorite lawyer joke?
Cheers |
Hi Vetterone,
That sounds fascinating about the MFG-61. I had made the assumption that you note which probably points back to the lack of available information. Along these lines, I'd be interested in seeing any Glanz cartridge literature that you possess if you could let me know anything I can do to assist here, please let me know.
Hopefully, Nandric grabs the availalbe model and lets us all know about his experience.
As always... |
Dear Vetterone, I hope you will like this one:
Lawyer 1: 'colleaque your case is hopeless'.
Lawyer 2: 'dear colleaque a case is only hopeless if the
client is not able to pay'.
Thanks for your 'second opinion' . BTW I nearly wrote to Vidmantas to complain about you.
Regards, |
|
If it were not for Attorneys....
we would not need any. |
Dear Lew, There are at least two interpretations possible.
But you can be assured that your Slavic brother is not involved in the worst case scenario. He was never attorney.
I realy hope that this is of any help. The problem is that
this Vetterone provoke me which btw is very easy to do with
any Balkanese. I even considered to complain about him by
Vidmantas assuming that Vidmantas is also his friend. But
considering his kind of humor I doubt if he has any friend at all.
Besides who wants a TT addict as friend? BTW how many TT's
do you own?
Regards, |
Dear Isochronism, Your verbal construction is wishful thinking. You should construct something more convincing.
Say: if we were brave enough to commit our revenge by ourself we will not need attorneys.
Regards, |
Nandric, I will give you a Touche' |
Tho, does not fit in an innocent defense scenario |
'Tho'? There are foreinger in our forum you know.Besides why do you think that innocence needs defence? What kind of defence do you have in mind: religious or criminal? |
Hi All,
Regarding the differences and similarities between the Glanz and Astatic range, I thought the following detail with the various patents that underpin these might prove enlightening:
"4072823 1978 Minamizono 'Mitachi Onkyo Seisakusho (brand name ""GLANZ"")' 'Pickup cartridge called as' 'Moving Flux'(see also 4011417). Unique construction having merit of MM/IM/MC. 'Also see Design patent D266504(1982) assigned to The Astatic Corporation (cartridge model MF200)'. Also '4123067 about unique stylus pivot suspension (embodied in model G-7 cartridge)'."
This might explain the preferences some have for the Astatic MF-200. However, it does suggest a uniqueness to the Glanz G-7 that might explain its distinct sound from the Astatic and Glanz cartridges that I have heard. It does suggest specific differences in and between both Glanz and Astatic cartridges.
The G7 continues to fascinate me but others (say the MFG-61o) might still supersede it in my ultimate estimations. Speaking of the latter, which was only recently brought to my attention by Vetterone, Grammophone April 1985, does note the new range of Glanz and the supremacy of the MFG-61o among that MFG range:
"In their 'moving flux'; range is the new MFG-310 (L4195) having a stylus lock fitment, glass-fibre body and line-contact diamond stylus. There is also a top model, the MFG-6Io (89) with a hollow boron cantilever, and a budget moving-magnet cartridge, the Glanz MG-70 at £1495."
Again, this seems to suggest the real variety of construction detail that affects Glanz. I hope Nandric decides to get hold of the 61o and lets us all know his perception of its strengths and weaknesses. I also continue to hope that more contributions and information are forthcoming.
As always... |
Dear Dgob, I was suprised with Vetterone advice because
I thought that the higher numbers imply higher ranking.
Even more suprising is the price for the MG 70: 1495 GBP.
To be honest I have difficulty to believe this.However in
the nomenclature I have the Glanz series consist of MFG
31/51/61 and 71. So it may be the case that MG 70 is a
'different animal'. I expect to get today from Italy:
Krell mc 100 (aka Takeda's Miyabi Standard) and Sony XL
88. The same Italian seller promissed to post some pictures
of his MFG 61 but, alas, he lives in Nord Italy where two
earthquakes happened. He is well but needs to help his
friends who where less lucky ( homes damaged).
So my quess is that I will get this cart within 10 days or
so.
Regards,
m |
Hi Nandric,
I'm wondering if Glanz (as with other manufacturers of the time) might have released several ranges. That would mean that the normal (Line contact or elliptical) options in their already discussed MFG range could exist along side the MFG-31o and MFG-61o etc? Maybe Vetterone can chip in here with more hard data or information.
If your 61o comes with the associated literature, maybe you could share your knowledge with us when you have it. I look forward to hearing about your pending arrival and your impressions.
Good luck
As always... |
Incidentally,
The price quoted for the MG-70 (£1.5k) is around the price I paid for my own Glanz, which were in immaculate condition. It's not cheap for moving magnets but it's still better than a MC of anywhere near their performance levels (not that I have any experience with any such MC cartridge at present!).
That reassurance just about keeps me from dispair!
As always... |
Dear Dgob, Not sure if Vetterone will react on your invitation. This will depend on his sense for humor. That is to say if he likes the Balkan kind. I now understand why you are so desperate to convince all of us about the superiority of your G7. For such kind of money some are willing to kill. Meanwhile I received the Italian packet.
The Krell MC 100 looks fantastic and as a twin brother or suster of the Miyabi Standard. Takeda also produced the same cart for Levinson (MLC10) and Cello. My advice: look for those. The Sony XL 88 looks poor in comparison but this regards
only the looks. Thuchan however is very fond of this cart and ensured me big suprise. I wrote to the Italian seller that I received his carts and now hope that he will also say something about the MFG 61.
Regards, |
Hi Nandric,
Hopefully, your Glanz wont let down the performance standards set by your other new acquisitions.
I look forward to hearing.
As always... |
Dear Dgob&Vetterone (?), There is a problem with 'my'
Glanz. The box is from the MFG 61 but inside the box
there is a 'new animal': Glanz 1 G -55 a. I always hope to see in
whatever box something better than the markings suggest
but this time I have no idea what to think.
Can you help? |
Hi Nandric,
That is no small disappointment. The Glanz 1G-55R is a notably lower end Glanz and I think the seller needs to refund your money. Maybe it is a genuine mistake and he has simply boxed the items wrongly.
Fingers crossed and let us know.
As always... |
Dear Dgob, Thanks for your worry but I wrote 'my Glanz' with quatation marks. I was in what lawyer call 'pre contractual' or 'negotiation' state of affair. It took me
some time but I learned from the Dutch how to negotiate.
Ie if a Dutchman agrees with your price direct than your negotiation capabilities are (very)questionable.
So again thanks for your worry as well as for the warning.
Regards, |
Sorry for the delayed response guys but I have been in a terrible sad state since Nandric reminded me that I have no friends, only turntables to keep me company. I now wonder if my dog likes me...I thought she did but, who knows.
One thing is for sure, the MFG 61 is designed to be the top MF cart and the MFG 51E is the cart with training wheels. The MFG 31 series are the mid level carts. I will say a MFG 31L will embarrass some of the flavors of the week from the other thread. It is quite good. The 51E's cantilever reminds me of Hillary Clinton's cankles. That is thick! Dgob found a statement that said the MFG 61 has a hollow boron cantilever. Maybe some do but mine has solid boron cantilever with the end ground to an angle parallel to the LP surface. The stylus body is maroon/dark red in color. Body is silver. I have had mine for some time and it was new in the box with the original paperwork. It is a wonderful sounding cart. Maybe someday I can compare it to a G7. That would be interesting don't you think?
Bummer about the MFG 61 box Nandric. |
Hi Vetterone,
"It [the MFG 61] is a wonderful sounding cart. Maybe someday I can compare it to a G7. That would be interesting don't you think?"
I will glady supply my contact details if you fancy sending yours on a short journey!
As always... |
Dear Vetterone, I am really sorry to have caused such a
dramatic impact. I am sure that your dog will love you provided you feed him well. The problem is, if it is a problem, that the Balkanes like to tease each other.This
is our way to show whom we like. Strange perhaps but true.
BTW I would never risk a possible complain by Vidmantas.
Kind regards, |
Vetterone- You think you got troubles, consider the composer of the classic blues tune:
"Nobody Loves Me But My Momma and She Could Be Jivin' Too." |
That could be a country & western song. The difference between C&W and blues songs? Blues tend to make you feel better, C&W will drive you to drink.
Now to get this back on track, compared the MFG 31E to the 31L the last two nights. Have to say the 31E does not have the detail or the speed of the 31L but it does have a seduction to the music that will make most listeners smile.
As nice as both 31'a are, the 61 is in another league. |
Hi Vetterone,
"the 31E does not have the detail or the speed of the 31L but it does have a seduction to the music that will make most listeners smile. As nice as both 31'a are, the 61 is in another league."
I am seriously open to some cross-cartridge exchange, as I am becoming dubious about the ready availability of either the 61 or G7. Maybe we could start with you sending me your model to compare and then I could send you my G7 to the same end. Failing that, I'd still be interested in a copy or scan of any Glanz literature.
Let me know
As always... |
Dear Dgob, I got a warning from you reg. the Glanz 55a.
My to you is entailed in the following. I exchanged some
books with an acquaintance and lost my wife as well as
some books.
Regards, |
Hi Nandric,
:~)
As always... |
Nandric, sounds like you have the makings of another country & westren song. |
Dear Vetterone, If you mean some 'curious' sense for humor
I agree. But I still try to learn English so, alas, some of
the American proverbs or the way of speaking are not clear to me. But Lew is always willing to help in this regard. I even think that he likes me. Slavic bonds I assume.
Regards, |
Hi Raul,
I just found your post of 09-21-09 on the MM/MI thread and thought I detected a change in your comments a few years later. This does make me wonder where the intervening problems reside:
"Dear Dgob, You point out the advantages that a integrate headshell cartridge ( like the Glanz you own or the Audio Technica AT-25 or Technics Pc100 and some other MM type cartridges. ) has but I think that you don't mention what IMHO is the more important subject: in a cartridge that comes with a integrated headshell there is no headshell wires/connectors ( at least not in the form we know. ), the connection is more direct and in " theory " less signal degradation that with a so low level signal is something important to care about."
Nothing added or taken away.
As always... |
Dear Dgob: That was in 2009, we all have the right to learn to grow up. I'm not married with any audio subject, as the life in audio " things " change and change when we give us the opportunity to learn the opportunity to think in a different way.
Again, in a vintage integrated cartridge the " aquila's heel " is precisely those vintage old internal wires/connectors and of course the non-flexibility to make the best cartridge set-up for the cartridge could shows us at its best.
There are other " inconvenients " in a vintage cartridges but are not the subject here.
Regards and enjoy the music,
R. |
Dear Dgob: Please do it your self a favor: don't be sticky with me on this subject.
It can't help you and it can't help to any one looking this thread.
Whom cares What I thinked on an audio subject 3 years ago or 7-10 years ago, makes no sense to me your post other that try to show that I'm " wrong ".
Dgob, if that makes you happy then I can accept I'm wrong. So what? what difference does that makes against my today opinion in that subject?
Please forget about me and like till today enjoy your cartridge as many other integrated cartridges proponents are doing it.
Regards and enjoy the music,
R. |
Hi Raul,
I was only sticking on a point that recurred and I am of course pleased that you accept the possiblity of being wrong (although I am not really sure that I believe it is as simple as being right or wrong when it comes to aesthetic judgements!). I have shared and will no doubt share that position again.
My interest here is only with a piece of equipment, which my auditioning leads me to believe is an excellent performer. Personalities are not an issue. Honestly.
As always... |
Dear Dgob: +++++ " to aesthetic judgements ... " ++++
you are absolutely wrong with me. I posted several times even for some time in my Agon virtual system I writed: " I don't care about aesthetic but about quality performance, nothing less and nothing more. ".
Aesthetics is not the trouble it is only that your common sense is way different from mine. My whole audio experiences through the years is way different from you and seems to me, for your post where you take your time to revise the longest thread on Agon only to find out how to show other people that 3 years ago I had a different point of view, that you have a " problem " of personality with me.
Please forget about me on this subject: forgeret what I think about.
Why do you care so much about, so much that you take a lot of time to find out what I posted 3 YEARS AGO ?, my God!!!
Certainly IMHO you are not helping any one with your attitude and even I think you could make a " damage " to your self, don't do it: it is not worth to do it !!!!!
Regards and enjoy the music,
R. |
