Getting into the music

Thanks... Very well said ...

About this matter and in a nmore neurological way there is a writer that can be mentioned , if we think about awareness direction and attention modes , as related to two complemented but competing polarities of the brain as with the left and right hemispheres ... One part directed toward details and the other directed toward the wholeness of a situation etc ,,, The books of Iain McGilchrist are very interesting ...

Anyway thanks for these interesting posts hilde45 ...

Especially important sentence for any audio thread:

The ideal of “the absolute sound” is, in a sense, promising something it cannot deliver — a feeling which is generated by the meanings of music. In this sense, sonic equipment is like every other marketer’s genie — offering salvation but only delivering enslavement.

Very good explanation... Thanks ...

My opinion as i stated it about the minimal acoustical satisfaction threshold condition and his acoustics factors is too abstract but is related to the concrete phenomena hilde45 described well about human intention and attention ...

Interesting and very clear and deeper ...

@rvpiano This comment caught my attention: Then, when I listen to my main system, I’m somehow expecting better than I perceive it to be and I’m back in hyper-critical mode once more. It’s frustrating. There’s a phenomenon called the "uncanny valley." It was invented, originally about robots, but I think it applies here. With robots (via Wikipedia): "as the appearance of a robot is made more human, some observers’ emotional response to the robot becomes increasingly positive and empathetic, until it reaches a point beyond which the response quickly becomes strong revulsion. However, as the robot’s appearance continues to become less distinguishable from a human being, the emotional response becomes positive once again and approaches human-to-human empathy levels." I suspect this is happening with music, as relayed in these posts. Music goes from being very unlike live music (e.g. crude but lovable) to being close but not close enough (e.g. in expensive or elaborate systems). When music reproduction is "close to live music but conspicuously lacking" our attention is fixated upon the sound, on the sonic flaws. And that distracts from the music. It would be like reading a text in an elaborate font. You can tell what it says, but the font is so distracting you wind up fixating on the letters. If this description applies to your musical experiences, then the goal is to find the "good enough" rig, which many seem to be pointing to, here. This would include "good enough" room acoustics. In short, you need to stay out of the "uncanny valley" of sound. Just before it, I’d say.

The problem is not listening to the sound as such , the problem is the fetichist misplaced idea that the sound balance or unbalanced experience  comes from each gear pieces , then criticizing a component as being in need to be upgrade at higher cost ... Most of the times the upgrade is not needed...

The balance and unbalanced experience very often dont come from a lack of synergy between parts , which is possible for sure and not rare , but result from a not well embedded system in the room ...

i listen the sound from my system always  but i hear always  music not sound ...Because all parts are synergetical and well embedded together electrically , mechanically and especially acoustically ... Then if  listening is  a conscious act, hearing is not a conscious act at all , anyway the more i consciously intend to listen the sound , the more i hear the music and nothing else which is called immersiveness experience ...

Why ? because in a balanced system the sound dont exist out of the music and serve it ... In an unbalanced system  some frequencies range , some lack in the transients, some absence of dynamic or some excess ,etc,  impose the same  sound haunting  ghost which hide the recording trade-off choices of any album  nevermind the musical choices ...

For me the most important is not the bass lackings at 50 hertz it is the balance between bass and the other range ... I dont feel a sub is need at all ... Anyway it will be costlier and complex to set it really right in a balanced way ... I hate boominess ...

I listen great organ bass on my headphone anyway ... Most jazz and classical tuba included sound great on my 4 inches woofer with my redesigned porthole though ... Without the redesign porthole it is not balanced nor deep enough at 80 hertz ...

For me it ends when mechanical,electrical and acoustical embeddings are done right , nevermind the gear choices if synergy exist between them ...Price tag dont matter for me ...Acoustics rule ...

Now only music exist ...Sounds being is living walking materialized manifested temporary egregora  with and through my system/room ...

@mahgister

Similarly, with my Joseph Audio Pulsars, the 5" woofers don’t produce the lowest bass but, depending on the source material, I don’t usually miss it. The Pulsars replace my Aerial Acoustics 10-T’s which actually tended toward too much bass in my 15.5’ x 23’ room so, overall, I’m happier with the Pulsars. I think with some modest room treatments I will finally be happy or.......wonder if I should add a subwoofer.

It never ends!

I underline the key element that create the problem :

Then, when I listen to my main system, I’m somehow expecting better than I perceive it to be and I’m back in hyper-critical mode once more. It’s frustrating.

Acoustics is God in audio ...

We expect something that it is not there because we perceive a lack or an excess from an unbalanced system/room ..

A simple example :

Why i did not perceive as a  frustrating lack of bass from my 4 inches woofer which goes 50 hertz and not twenty ?

My top headphone goes near 20 hertz...😁

The reason i live well without frustration  nor need for a sub woofer even if 50 hertz is not 20 , it is because the speakers/ room are balanced expressing each acoustic factors optimally relatively to one another ...I know i lack bass but it does not bother me at all because all is well balanced ... Acoustics rules and mechanical and electrical embeddings done right rules with it  ...

I suffered the same manic obsession because i was hating my old system...

The problem is not in the developping of the analytical side of the brain , the problem is not in our way of hearing ; the problem is that we now know that the sound acoustic factors are not right and are unbalanced ...

The only way i discovered toward the solution was hard, but efficient and low cost  ... It was mandatory for me to  retrieve musical  ectasy and forgotting sound and at the same time appreciating it with the musicians playing ...

Learning how to embed a system mechanically, electrically and acoustically was the solution  .... Especially learning acoustics concepts and here i spoke about acoustics in general not room acoustic only ...

Doing so   with a low cost system is possible even if a low cost system  could reach not the upper most higher level of sound  for sure but  it can pass over what i called the minimal acoustic satisfaction treshold... This concept does not even exist in audio threads where all is defined by price tags more than by real acoustic concepts by the way  ...

How many are able to describe the acoustic concept of immersiveness and his many conditions ? This concept not only exist but with it clearly understoood you can experiment in your room ...

The good news is a very good system can give astonishing acoustic experience under 1000 bucks as mine ; the bad news is that i dont know how to do it in a clean living room at low cost especially ...😁

When you reach "immersiveness" , sound convey music and you listen in heaven without any need to analyse anymore... Timbre is satisfying etc .... You are there in your own way with a synergetical system nevermind the cost...Acoustic laws, mechanical good embeddings controlling vibrations, electrical good noise ratio principles and problems dont change because the system price is higher ...

For example , the porthole of any pair of speakers as mine , which are low cost, or way costlier one will need to be redesigned probably as mine was in need to be redesigned ... The neck of a Helmholtz resonators efficient in a resonant room cannot be a mere hole and his dimension is a ratio where one of the factor is not zero optimally because Helmholtz resonators works with a volume relating to a neck and the neck or multiple necks connected to the volume  must be computed or/ and  designed by ears mechanically 😁...

No small  speakers designer for example will sell a porthole extending on your desk with a bundle of tubes near 2 feet behind with various dimensions for many of them and they will not dare to ask you after creating this horror big money for it ... At best they will design the porthole inside in a bigger speaker box  and hidden but instead of the 100 bucks i paid for my 4 inches woofer speakers they will ask for many thousand dollars for the same sound level quality ...I could had spoke about crosstalk mechanical control instead of immersiveness or Helmholtz resonators or i could had spoke about the way the reverberation time  in a small room can be used etc ...Read acoustics and forgot useless reviews of hyped products ...

Music is to sound what the beautiful expressing soul gesture of a beautiful woman speaking and walking is to his proportionated balanced body ...

I think also that ghdprentice know what he talk about ...

This does not means that a high end costlier system will not be better but the way to put them together matter the most...It is the way i read his post ...

Yep, I had a $70K reference system. If I was mastering albums… it would be great. But for a musical experience… nope.

I felt the same as the OP all the years since i had no  good system to use and must create one at low cost ...

i was unsatisfied and frustrated ...I had no idea about the importance and laws of acoustics ...

The bad sound was too much for me to listening somtheting else than Bach ...

I learned  then in my own way  with experiments to embed any system at any price , especially with  acoustics...It takes me full time for few years but  i was retired ...

Now with a low cost system i succeeded... No more sound evident limitations, i listen music all day between walks ...Or reading ...

It MAY cost peanuts to create audiophile experience if you pick the right gear with the right synergy, but it is not enough at all ; you must learn your way to understand how to control the mechanical (vibrations resonance) electrical(signal-noise ratio) acoustical (not only room acoustics but psycho acoustics basic) working dimensions of the gear ...

i am very proud of my 700 bucks system headphone and speakers ...

Music is ectasy because if sound is the body of the woman you love,the music is his expressive soul and cannot be reduced to his body so beautiful could it be ...