Genuine Telefunken?


The last few years I have really enjoyed the exceptional sound of my tube audio equipment. After reading as much as possible on the net about " NOS " tubes, have narrowed it down to Telefunken 12AX7 and 12AU7 for my Jadis DPL preamp, but now I am really confused and can't believe all the fake ones being passed on for the authentic tubes. I have three questions! 1.) What exactly should I look for on genuine Telefunkens of these #'s, should they all have gold pins? 2.)Is it possible to stumble upon a genuine NOS Telefunken 12AX7? and 3.) Is it just a matter of preference of smooth plate verses ribbed plate? Or is one better than the other? I am new to experimenting with tubes and would love any opinions or comments. Maybe I should just consider a used tube being they have such a long long life. Thanks, Deb
noguerol

Showing 8 responses by sirspeedy

Be very careful!!.....My friend spent five hundred dollars(for three tubes),for his phono section.They sounded drab,thin and basically horrible.

As it turns out,they were "fakes".

He has since replaced them with superb Siemens CCa's,but he got excellent results with the Mullards,Amperex,and very fine results with the Ediswan 6922 tubes.

I've had all of the above(for phono section)except the TELE(fortunately).

I am currently thinking about the Pinched Waiste Amperex 6922's,which might be available to me(very good ones)....

Not to hijack the thread,but(aside from what I've read,in Joe's Tube Lore)does anyone have experience,or a good opinion on the PW's?

Best to all
Jafox,I am happy for your "always interesting" response,except this time around you may have cost me some money. -:)

Worth replacing my CCa's with the PW's?
Jafox,one thing I am consistently amazed about you,is....

No matter what the "known,believed" excellence of "anything" audio is...

You can be relied upon to basically come up with a "new",not usually known/considered "take" on the subject!

DON'T EVER CHANGE!!
Jafox,hmm?..

Well,I don't have stock power cords,and my Exact Power EP-15a/Ultrapure "regeneration -- fully balanced" conditioners blew away a huge variety of stuff.

Went through evrything except the PW tubes,AND you are selling the IC-70 short,IMO -:)...BUT...

if you can move your 2.2's vta "that" much,and don't hear much change,I may be having my doubts -:)

I owned,loved,and "as of this moment" sadly miss my five years with the 2.2(an amazing arm,by any standard),but in my set-up,and that of a close friend,such vta changes stand out BIG TIME!!

Hmm?Maybe the Hyper,or your figamajig super tubes,or "something else" is clouding the "should be" instantly recognizeable differences you "should" get,with vta changes,on an arm as good as the 2.2!... -:) -:)

Time to check the cartridge?Or maybe the CCa's should get a try-out(they are quite good,btw).

BTW,since I don't know you too well,there was a healthy dose of humor in my post......BUT,hmm?

Best.
C,mon Jafox....I think you just might be trying to "out-fox" me!!??

Trust me..."That arm is incredibly good"!!Your system looks to be "incredibly good".Your experience seems to be the same,so don't assume you cannot get a bit more from "something" in the system,not allowing you to hear minor(which should be "instantly" heard)changes in the analog chain(vta)....I think if you look at other hobbyists comments,on the subject,it will reveal the vta impact,should be easily heard.

I mean this with the "utmost" respect,and am speaking as though you are a friend.Yet,I probably should just shut up.Please don't get peeved because there is a nice surprise in store for you,if you like to attempt to push the envelope.

We ALL have assumptions about some aspect of sonic performance, that winds up being changed,and surprising us from time to time!You have a high resolution set-up.Certainly high res enough to change your opinion of this vta "thing".You'll love the results,and can send me a nice bottle of wine,if you pursue this!! -:)I'd be happy with a nice Chardonnay,if you only get a small improvement,but I think I'll wind up with a BIG RED BARLOLO,because if you don't already think I am nuts,your in for a treat(it may take some work)!BTW,just kidding about the wine...just happy to see you get what you deserve from such a great system!

I think,with all of the associations you have,in the hobby,this VTA issue can open additional doorways to an already fabulous system!!You may want to hit me now,but might thank me at some future point.

A system as good as yours should,"absolutely",be capable of "easily" showing changes in VTA!Assuming the fluid in the bearing cap is not set too high(minimum gains openness,maximum damps down sound).I had my fluid(using my old Transfig Temper-V)at 1/3 way up the bearing "square.I'll assume everything else is doing what it should,but maybe some tubes need replacing?Ya never know.

Sorry if I'm pissing you off,but you seem like a great guy,and this is the place to have some fun...

Besides Minn. is far enough for you to not want to attempt to beat me up,since I am on the East Coast. -:)

I have a sneaky suspicion that if you actually address this subject(aren't you sorry you mentioned the vta "thing"?)you will be in for a revelation!!

Best Regards
John,I just got off the phone with Steve Huntley,as he is doing some new update work for me.

The subject of PW tubes came up,as did your name.Steve thinks you a super fellow btw,and a very knowledgeable hobbyist.

Also,he mentioned your IO sounded amazing with the PW's!

Maybe I should have kept quiet! -:)

Best
OK John,one thing I want to make clear is that I am in "no way" too serious about pushing you,in a direction you don't want to go in!

It's really just hobbyspeak to me,so do what you feel comfy with.That being said,let's take the gloves off-:)....

Firstly I've been through the cable wars,tube rolling times,and the multitude of "virtually anything" I could come up with myself.I also have a close friend who has been obsessed with cable changes,and Line Conditioning "type" products for too long a time.He has a very similar set-up as me,so he is a superb "lab mouse",and I benefit greatly from this.Yes,they are of paramount importance,along with many other factors...one being open to changing one's attitude,on occassion.Been there.Done that!

I have always been a big believer of "updating/modifying" something I think works well in my set-up,and I have a highly modded system.For my tastes(without going too overboard with ego)it is ultra high res(in the best way),and of very low coloration(something that almost everything "IS"!!I am truly happy,regardless of industry hype,because I trust my ears,and have friends who remind me of this,alot!!

Living here in the North East,I've been lucky to hear alot of great set-ups,and it is the "hobbyist system" that influences my approach,as opposed to live music!

Why?...because we are not about to "do" live music for a long time(of course it MUST be heard often),but when one hears another person's set-up "doing" something better than our own,it "instsntly" stands out.Then we(I) say.."how can I get that too".

Just my own approach.

OK,and please remember I KNOW you are an "audio maven"!

At least this is what Huntley told me yesterday...I am having him update my SP-15 pre/phonostage for the second time(the combined costs have been nothing approaching inexpensive,but worth every cent).It is a shockingly good device,but the new V-Teflon caps,and new P/S should make it even superior to the first "Ref Mod",done by Steve.

I was asking him about PW's and your name came up,because he felt your pre was fabulous(with the PW's),and he mentioned you to be a knowledgeable hobbyist...but...we both raised an eyebrow regarding your comment about not hearing a "worthy" enough difference when playing around with VTA....Whew!!

Steve was totally complimentary towards you,and your system,so we left it at that.....but I have to tell you if you are willing to go to the "voicing lengths" with tubes/cabling etc(and rightfully so),your enthusiasm about VTA leaves me "definitely" feeling ...

"There is something wrong in "Resolution-ville"!!

I used to own four different Koetsus,as well as the Zeta,but did not have the analog experience at the time(though it sounded good)to make a meaningful comment.

The 2.2 I know like the back of my hand!!Actually better!!..

It is "unbelievably" sensitive to fluid in the bearing!This is actually a good thing,IMO,because if you play around with it you will be in for a surprise,assuming there are no "resolution issue" in the overall system.

The amount I,and my friend had(we both moved the the Phantom,but don't believe the zealots,because the 2.2 "IS" a fabulous "cartridge carrier")was at the about 1/3 "way up" from the "bottom" of the bearing "square"!This is probably cartridge dependant,but I'd be willing to bet,not as big a difference with the majority of choices.Just a hunch.
The arm is "so" sensitive to fluid,that as much as "one" pinhead difference can be(should be audible....and I'm NOT nuts) "clearly" heard,if the system is of a high resolution.Believe me(or not) I spent alot of "worthy in the long run" time on this,and know "that" arm.I LOVE it!!

I would suggest,if you buy my schtick,that you start with a fluid of about 1/4 way up the bottome squared off part of the bearing,and move up in "rediculously small" fluid addition increments.Sorry,but it works!Don't sell your arm/cartridge/attitudes short!

The more fluid,the more damped down the sound(lower resolution).The less fluid,the higher resolution,openess and bass,but at the expense of brightness,so be very careful.It might not hurt to have a good second set of ears here.

If the system is as good as Huntley thinks,you may be in for a shock,because the VTA "thing" is HUGE(yeah....in very small movements of "that" dredded vta dial),once the best tubes,and cabling are in place.Not to mention a fabulus electronics array,that you appear to own!

So,if I start to read your posts about "better phonocabling" and the finest PW's,I'm gonna be "real suspicious" if you wind up thinking VTA is not worthy of the same approach -:)

"Those VTA Fanatics" are absolutely on to something,because it is clearly audible in a good set-up!

Meant with the best intentions.

Regards