Gain Question


I may not understand what is going on with my vinyl setup.

The chain goes as follows -

Ortofon Per Windfeld Cart .3 mv output
Herron VTPH-2 phono stage 66 db of gain
Cary SLP05 preamp 10 db of gain.

Sound is great but in order to be at a moderate listening volume, the volume nob on the Cary pre must be almost maxxed out. How can I fix this?
markus1299

Showing 3 responses by almarg

66db corresponds to a voltage gain of about 2000. 10db corresponds to a voltage gain of about 3.2. So 0.3mv from the cartridge will result in about 0.3 x 2000 x 3.2 = 1.9 volts into your power amp. That is roughly in the general area of input voltage that most power amps require to reach full power.

Speaker efficiency is also obviously a factor in all of this.

Those numbers reflect the volume control being set all the way up, so what you are finding is understandable and probably can't be fixed without a component change, or the addition of a component between preamp and power amp that would provide additional gain. Unless you are presently connecting preamp to power amp unbalanced, in which case a balanced connection may provide more overall gain. But looking at your system description I suspect that you are already connected balanced.

Regards,
-- Al
From John Atkinson's measurements of the SLP-05:
The SLP 05 offered slightly different maximum gains from the figures specified on Cary's website. However, the specified gain is different on the Specifications page—10dB single-ended, 8dB, balanced—from what it is on the Literature page—12dB. In a telephone conversation AD had with Cary's Dennis Had, Dennis said that the 10dB/8dB numbers were a misprint, the real numbers were 16dB unbalanced and 12dB balanced. With both input-level controls and the volume control at their maximum settings, I measured 15.3dB for unbalanced input to unbalanced output and 13.8dB for balanced input/output. The difference, perhaps, is due to inconsistencies in the tube gains. Usually, such differences would have been minimized by negative feedback, but the SLP 05 apparently doesn't use any negative feedback.
This suggests two things to me:

1)You may be able to change the gain significantly by tube rolling.

2)However, there is no point in doing so because you most likely can already drive the amplifier to the clipping point, considering that the present gain is most likely several db higher than the 10db I used in my earlier calculation (which reflected 1.9V into the power amp).

Also, consider that the SLP-05 has a rated nominal output level of 2V, and is presumably designed to be compatible with your CAD120S. That would suggest that the unspecified input sensitivity of the CAD120S is significantly less than 2V, to assure that the SLP-05 can drive it to max power.

All of which seems to reinforce the comments Herman and Greg offered about needing more power (which would also provide more gain, assuming input sensitivity remained comparable). A step-up transformer obviously will not help in that regard; might result in overload problems as has been indicated; might degrade the sound quality that you are presently happy with; and would result in your having to address and experiment with a lot of complex interrelated variables that sut's inevitably involve, if sound quality is to be fully optimized.

But there is another significant constraint involving increasing power. Your Harbeth's are rated to handle a maximum of 200W on program peaks (their continuous power rating is probably considerably less), and 200W is only about 2db louder than 120W.

Note to John: Thanks for pointing out that the balanced output gain of the SLP-05 is spec'd at 2db less than for the unbalanced output. Actually, I had noticed that, but I was envisioning that the power amp's balanced input MIGHT have a 6db higher sensitivity (lower sensitivity number) than the unbalanced input.

Markus: So I'm not sure what the answer is, but those are the thoughts that I can offer at this point. Ultimately, you are constrained by the peak spl capability of the speakers.

Regards,
-- Al
The vinyl sound is enjoyable at present but every once in a while there is that specific cut that you would just like to boost a little bit and I don't have that option.
Which prompts a further thought. Records are cut at different levels. If you sense that those specific recordings are cut at lower than average levels perhaps a gain increase (via a different cartridge, or tube rolling, or some other means) would help, without changing to a more powerful amp.

Contrasted with that, though, would be the situation where you want to increase the volume setting due to the recording having very wide dynamic range. An example being well recorded symphony orchestra, where the average level may be fairly low, but brief orchestral peaks very high. If that is the type of recording you find yourself wanting to turn up higher, more power may be called for, to prevent clipping on the peaks.

Good luck!

-- Al