Fun with MM cartridge

I completely overhauled 3 systems beginning in 2019, and have been building a cartridge collection for my total of 5 tonearms, 3 with removable headshells.

Main: I've been happily listening to a couple of LOMC for the past 4 years, AT33PTG/II ML on boron; Sumiko Talisman S Shibata on Sapphire Tube.

Also got a new Jico Stylus SAS on Boron for my vintage Shure MM V15Vxmr and have been using my NOS MM AT440ml X microlinear on aluminum in my office.

Also had Steve Leung at VAS re-build me two unique specialty combos with his 'p' advanced stylus on boron, 1 mono and 1 with Shure's OEM damped brush. 

The ATML170 and ATML180 mentioned are Microline on Boron, but they do not have exceptional channel separation, I've never heard one, but they don't tempt me due to their limited imaging potential and high price.

I recently re-acquired  MM Beryllium Cantilevers with Microline Stylus, they track in a range of 1.0g to 1.5g, I use 1.25g, have excellent stereo separation and tight center balance.I took a chance on:

used AT160ml body with used AT160ml stylus (my current favorite)

used at150ml body with AT160ml stylus (spare, share the wear)

NOS V15V-P p mount, HE hyper-elliptical on beryllium, to use with 1/2" adapter (sadly just broke the stylus after playing it only once)

this AM bought NOS AT160ML Body with NOS microline on beryllium cantilever found in Australia at a good price, I'll try to be especially careful with it.

done for a while now

lewm

chakster has NOS AT-ML170

AT-170ML specs chakster shows actually slightly better than the AT-ML180 shown above

SPECIFICATIONS AT-ML170 / LC-OFC:

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■ Frequency Response (Hz): 5 - 40,000
■ Vertical Tracking Force: 1.25 +/- 0.3
■ Tracking Ability (microns) at center value VTF: 90
■ Tracking Ability (microns) at upper value VTF: 100
■ Channel Separation (dB at 1kHz/10kHz): 31/21
■ Channel Balance (dB): 0.5
■ Output (mV at 1kHz), 5 cm/sec): 4
■ Vertical Tracking Angle: 20 degree
■ Stylus Shape: 0.1mm MicroLine
■ Stylus Construction: Nude Square Shank
■ Cantilever: Gold-plated BORON PIPE
■ Wire Uses For Coil: LC-OFC
■ Recommended Load Impedance (ohms): 47,000
■ Recommended Load Capacitance (pF): 100 - 200
■ Dynamic Compliance @ 100Hz: 10.0
(* please note that Dynamic Compliance @10Hz will be around 18-20cu)
■ Static Compliance: 40.0
■ Cartridge Weight (grams) 7.0
■ Replacement Stylus: ATN170ML

used AT-ML170 from Samurai (whom I bought two used AT160ml’s from)

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westcoast

thanks for correcting my erroneous statement, those AT-ML180 specs are excellent, that makes more sense, I had found specs that showed channel sep 21 db, it must have been a typo or a bad source.

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I just bought a NOS AT160ml MicroLine on Beryllium in Australia for $298 usd. delivered.

AT160ML sept 1984 published specs

Manufacturer’s Specifications:

Type: Moving magnet.

Stylus: MicroLine, nude-mounted, grain-oriented, square diamond.

Frequency Response: 5 Hz to 35 kHz.

Channel Balance: Within 0.5 dB. Separation: 31 dB at 1 kHz, 21 dB at 10 kHz.

Recommended Vertical Tracking Force Range: 0.08 to 1.8 grams.

Tracking Ability: 90 microns at center vertical tracking force (VTF), 100 microns at upper VTF.

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I’m loving my used MM AT-160ml’s, soon will re-assemble/install my new to me Vintage JVC Victor Tonearm UA-7082 which will give me medium length, two removable headshells, and Sunday I will bid on the S arm version of the Jelco 250, if I get lucky that will give me 3 removable heasdshells.

With the TT81, I can start all 3 tonearms in the groove, perfect speed as demonstrated by ’Halcro’, a member here with the TT801

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3WeNPtfLBc&t=32s

I choose which one to hear via my SUT, so I can actively compare within seconds. (I make temp. pencil marks for volume as needed).

I want to compare my two MC’s:AT-33PTG/II Microline on Boron; Sumiko Talisman S Shibata on Sapphire Tube to my two MM’s: Shure V15Vxmr with Jico SAS on Boron and  AT-160ML MicroLine on Beryllium, I’ll schedule it with friends to help.

OP

here’s a discussion of the Grace F9 cartridge

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/grace-f-9e

Note: you can put an advanced stylus in it, you might enjoy it more, 

excerpt, emphasis mine:

"lewm 12-03-2022 at 10:11pm 

FWIW, Soundsmith make a complete replacement stylus and cantilever assembly for the Grace Ruby cartridge, which was naught but an F9E with a sapphire or ruby cantilever. Best of all, the SS product comes with one of their line contact styli, which should (and does) surpass the performance of the OEM elliptical. This is my opinion, but I can back it up by the fact I own two Grace Ruby cartridges, one OEM and one with the SS replacement stylus. Both are superb but the SS version is best with better treble extension and a cleaner midrange. And yes, this cartridge will blow away many MC cartridges that are adored here. The F14 is good too, based on the testimony of the now absent Chakster. I have not heard an F14"

Soundsmith Stylus Options for Grace f9 Body OP started this discussion about:

https://www.sound-smith.com/parts/grace-f9-replacement-stylus

read about the difference between their CL Contact Line, and MR MicroRidge here:

https://www.sound-smith.com/articles/stylus-shape-information

 

General descriptions:

The Aluminum bonded Elliptical RS-9EB ($149.95) Very good quality playback - Rugged design, Great for general purpose use or let the kids use this one!!!  (Green body - not shown below - VERY limited supply)

The Aluminum Nude Elliptical - RS-9E ($199) Provides high quality vinyl playback. Low mass nude elliptical stylus

The Aluminum Nude CONTACT LINE RS-9U  ($299) Features a fine line contact low mass stylus (better high frequency playback)

RUBY-CL - (Model RCCN) Sapphire cantilever laser drilled for Nude Contact Line Stylus - ($399) - Excellent playback - fine line stylus profile with ultra-low mass Sapphire cantilever laser drilled to accept low mass CL stylus.

RUBY-OCL - (Model RCONS) Our top shelf Ruby cantilever and OCL stylus ($499) delivers the absolute finest high frequency tracing of inner grooves possible. Requires careful setup and somewhat more frequent cleaning as per our coin/Blue stick method on our stylus cleaning page

BMR - (Model BMR) NEW – Our newest ultra high-end Grace stylus for those who demand the best: Boron cantilever with Micro-Ridge stylus $999

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note: the AT33PTG/II is Microline on Gold Plated Boron Tapered Tube, readily found on eBay for $499. The BMR Stylus alone is $999.

https://www.audio-technica.com/en-us/at33ptg-2

I've played my friend's Grace here with new Soundsmith BMR stylus, compared to my AT33PTG/II, we were easily confused trying to hear a difference, both sounded terrific with excellent imaging, and after saving money initially, AT has trade in program, I got a new AT33PTG/II for less than half price.

It's Grace MM against AT MC ........

If you don't want to get involved with MC, SUT, the Grace MM f9 with an advanced stylus is a serious choice.

Someone with a memory, please help

I found and posted a chart of materials stiffness in a recent discussion, anyone know where?

OP

no need to re-work it, it is not obvious, my friend also did not realize: the F9 Stylus is removable, you just buy one of the 6 choices listed above and change it yourself. 

After breaking my OEM Beryllium cantilever of my Shure V15Vxmr many years ago, I decided Boron was as high as I would go for both stiffness and price.

I thought GEMs: Sapphire, Ruby (actually Ruby is a Ruby COLORED Sapphire) were stiffer/better than Boron, yet I read that Boron is technically far stiffer than Sapphire, all 3 far stiffer than Aluminum and the alloy varieties.

Beryllium is off the chart lighter/stiffer than anything else, which explains my final decision to risk used cartridges with MicroLine on Beryllium, and the excitement of just finding a NOS AT160ml at a low price.

https://service.shure.com/s/article/v15v-models-and-styli?language=en_US&region=en-US

Shure’s V15Vxmr description

Beryllium MICROWALL/Be Stylus Cantilever for Lowest Effective Mass Ever! Beryllium has extremely low mass and high stiffness. These properties result in superior performance, however, only when the material is geometrically optimized. The ultra-thin (0.0005-inch) beryllium MICROWALL/Be tube, shown in Figure 1c, has the lowest effective mass and highest ratio of stiffness to mass of any stylus cantilever ever, resulting in unprecedented high-frequency trackability. Below is the Stiffness to Mass ratio for the three different types of beryllium cantilevers shown in Figure 1 (inside back cover). The physical characteristics of beryllium allow a longer length low-mass stylus structure. The resultant longer cantilever achieves the proper vertical tracking angle for a better match to the recorded signal and lower distortion. MASAR-Polished Micro-Ridge (MR) stylus tip The MR Micro-Ridge stylus tip has a very small

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In all cases I prefer the light tracking forces possible by the advanced materials.

A very nice MM option is to find a Shure V15V Body and buy a new /JICO Stylus SAS on Boron which is what I put in my old V15Vxmr body, various combos exist, pay attention to the small details.

I just took 37 minutes to watch this video of Art Dudley of Stereophile visiting Peter Ledermann at Soundsmith's Offices, I encourage you to remember to watch it when you can.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rd948px1230&t=2s

a similar thread

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/high-performance-moving-iron-cartridge-candidates

I posted there:

search youtube for soundsmith, this popped up, being retired, fresh cup of coffee, I watched and enjoyed the whole thing, over an hour

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ul0o7UEqtkA

of particular interest if you are short of time are:

46:30 Major advantage of Strain Gauge is seriously minimized Cantilever Jitter

51:30 Anti-Skate: set with blank side or dead wax area of VINYL (proper material for resistance on industry standard bottom of tip).

57:00 LOW output Strain Gauge cartridge versions are made for Marketing Reasons (not a reduced mass issue in strain gauge technology).

105: fix for arm with no anti-skate feature: shim up the upper left corner (assuming arm is upper right) until you get it right.

fixed coil explained here