Jay, you can simply visit some of your friends with better system to play your LPs. Because vinyl is vinyl, if you hear only pops and background noise and no "magic" then the system is very low quality. Normally in a very good system vinyl is pure magic and nobody cares about little pops and cracks, because you're almost there in the studio. It is only possible with great cartridges, tonearms, turntables, phonostages, amps, cables, speakers. Even tape has some hiss, this is nature of the analog media.
If you're expecting sterile digital sound from vinyl or from tape you'd better stick to digital format. |
It is really strange than someone need to clean a NEW records, especially with some expensive cleaning machines and stuff like that. This method for a NEW records is a waste of time. When a NEW record is visually clean then all you need is to use carbon fiber brush to clean from dust before you play each side and it should be fine. Even for a 40 year old vintage vinyl this simple method is enough (and very cheap). Audiophiles always crazy about everything, the best way to avoid all these is to buy records in perfect condition. Playing records must be fun and it shouldn't be difficult process, not every music lover is an audiophile and some process described above is definitely not for everyone, not necessary ritual. Some pressing is just bad and you can't do anything about it with all the cleaning etc. Original records always better than reissues (with some exceptions). You need a proper cartridge, tonearm and turntable to start with. Cartridge and its stylus profile is probably the most important. |
Definitely flea market records must be cleaned, but it's about vintage vinyl. Same records from private collection or from professional dealers are already cleaned many times.
But the OP has NEW records, people buying them sealed.
They are plays fine with very simple cleaning (without any special devices).
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I can’t tell you how many times I’ve bought new pressings only to have them sound worse than used records I picked up for a few dollars. This is a problem of modern mastering, recording, pressing... i agree. This is true, i don’t buy re-issues normally and rarely buying new releases, but those vintage LPs and 45s from the 70’s (if the pressing is good) are just fantastic and i do not use any special cleaning machines, just a simple method described above (even a bath with distilled water is too complicated for me). If the grading is strong VG+ or Mint- i have no problem with quality, i can’t remember anything like serious ticks and pops that bother me, the music is louder anyway. Maybe i am not audiophile ? Forgive me, but majority of audiophiles always overestimate the problem, especially those who get used to digital, so i can understand. But since i only play vinyl in my system i am happy with vintage records without any special treatment. I don’t care about fancy anti-static inner sleeves like those from "audiophile" pressing etc, clean paper inner sleeves are fine for me. Why not just enjoy vinyl like the previous generation did without all that crazy time consuming treatment ? I know that some people are going crazy over the years, like in every hobby, but telling about all that habits (especially to a newbie) like a "must have" is too much. It’s not necessary! You can go too far and in the end you will start talking about pure energy, because the one from the power socket "is not clean enough and noisy", right? This guy ended up with his private source of electricity for example. With all respect It can be an endless quest for people who can’t just enjoy what they have. The nature of vinyl is minor background hiss and some light crackles (depends on condition of the vinyl). Old Japanese original pressing always quieter because of the virgin vinyl formula, still can be 10 times cheaper than new audiophile re-issues in a fancy inner sleeves. I am happy to ignore audiophile pressings and reissues, instead i am happy with original pressing made just like musicians intended to present their music for the masses at normal price. Vintage vinyl all the way! Those overpriced reissues made for the sect of audiophile elitist is not what normal music lover really need, there are tons of original pressings around and people who trying to tell they are not as good as the audiophile pressing are just .... |
If it is new records you are playing cleaning them will not do anything except make things worse. Some record companies just do a crappy job of pressing records. I have $75,000 worth of record playing stuff and I never clean a record I purchased from new.
It is nice to see a bit of common sense in this thread, because prior to this post i thought all they do is cleaning records instead of actually enjoying music. |
The others that I am researching right now are: rega, project, music hall, mobile fidelity and even goldenote.
Do you know what is the difference between Belt Drive turntables and Direct Drive ? Look at brand new Technics SL1200GR if you want a proper turntable for the next 30 years without service. The cost is about $1700 in USA. |
Don’t assume that because you’re satisfied with less than the best or too lazy to try to improve playback qualities that others are the same as you. Nobody is telling someone new to the hobby that they have to clean their records or take other steps to improve playback but they may choose to do so and it will have positive effects.
I generally don’t clean brand new records before I play them and I buy used records at a store that uses a record cleaner before they put them out for sale. If I buy them somewhere else then I do get out my record cleaner and make sure there is not a bunch of crap on them before I put them on my turntable.
You made a lot of incorrect assumptions. You guys are free to clean everyday, but if i do not hear any problem i do not clean with special devices, it’s been pointed out before that professional sellers clean their vintage record with vacuum cleaners prior to sell them, i do not buy on flea markets. To my eyes my records are clean visually and does not sound dirty when i play them. I improve the sound quality with different cartridges and phonostages. Since i do not have a digital background in music at all (i don’t care about digital) i am fine with vinyl, i’m not sure what you are trying to achieve when you’re cleaning them (sound like a CD or what?) or maybe they are so dirty, but i tried vacuum cleaning at the local shop, it was a good point to make sure my record were clean before i cleaned them, because i did not find huge improvement. I am more concerned about the condition of the vinyl, because even if you will clean VG record it will never be a VG+, you can’t wipe away scratches on surface. A Near Mint condition record without any cleaning is better than cleaned VG. Condition is far more important, because scratches on surface is annoying, this is what makes huge pops and cracks in the system. I have no idea why do you want to clean a MINT condition or NEW record if the sound is just great ? This is audiophilia at their best. If you will look under microscope on everything around you will see it’s not clean, not sterile, so what ? Shall we turn on the ultra violet light to kill the microbes ? P.S. I do clean my styli and trying to keep my record clean without overestimating the problem. |
If I like the results, then I might invest in a cleaner.
Thing is, at the moment, I have probably have about 50 or less records.
This is really all you need, cheap as chips. Invest in vinyl instead and buy yourself a proper cartridge and turntable first, this is much more important. I'm pretty sure you don't need to clean NEW records |
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Background hiss and crackles (not to mention limited dynamic range and the endless aggravations of cleaning) were never acceptable to me that’s why I stopped buying vinyl in 1983 and have never remotely considered going back. Then the next generation jump into the game, i start buying vinyl in 1995, sold all my CDs quickly in the mid 90’s, and can’t stop buying vinyl ever since. I can’t hear anything like background hiss and crackles that louder than music, so i don’t care. And i don’t clean records with special devices. My first serious turntable was Technics SL1210 mk2 and now i have many top quality vintage direct drives like Denon DP-80, Victor TT-101 (two of them), Luxman PD-444 (two of them)... my old Technics still here and still working without service. Vintage vinyl is my passion, original pressings Digital is so boring compared to vinyl. Vinyl forever! I want to remind people that even on live shows we’re not alone in front of the band, people make some noise around us, this is life. At home even with digital setup we can hear some sounds coming from the open window, from the neighbors etc ... this is life. It is not necessary to be in the submarine, in the bunker on in the space to enjoy the music. Silent background is not what we have in the real life |
First of all i hope you understand that Technics is a NEW turntable and completely different internally from the old technics model discontinued long time ago. The "GR" (available in balck and silver) is not a DJ turntable, but a slightly simplified version of the $4000 "G" and "GAE". Maybe you have to see it in the real life, not on the picture, touch it and compare to the plastic belt drive toys from Rega. Have you seen a Technics in real life in the shops ? Here is a better images of GAE, the finishing is simply amazing, and none of the DJ turntables for Technics have such luxury finishing. The GR is very close for half price. My advice is to stay away from the belt drive turntables, it’s inferior technology and what they are offering even at $2k is a rip-off (imo). Turntable for DJs in the new Technics line is much cheaper "mk7", but not the GR, G, GAE. The motor of G and GAE is simply the best direct drive servo available today in this world. Matsushita is huge, they made millions of Technics tunrtables and this is the only reason why their price is not 10 times higher like from small manufacturers. Compared to $1700 they charge for brand new GR all those plastic Rega and related belt drive must be $300 max. So belt drive for $300-500 might be ok, but belt drive for $2000 is rip-off. If the look is more important for you then any vintage turntable is much better to look at in my opinion. This is my ex vintage Technics SP-10mkII that i bought for $1200 injcluding shipping in mint condition without plinth and tonearm. And this is what i bought next (Luxman PD-444) for less than $2k. |
@jay73 You have nice gear. I am assuming you the Technics GR also, if so, what cartridge are you using or would recommend for it? Thanks, on GR you can use wide range of cartridges, this is a medium mass tonearm (pretty good one), any cartridge with MID COMPLIANCE is a perfect match, "mid" is something like 20cu @ 10Hz. But don’t worry, almost any MM/MI cartridge with 20-30cu compliance figure (measured at 10Hz, not at 100Hz) is nice for this arm. Audio-Technica cartridges are mid compliance, most of the modern MC are mid compliance too. Some killer vintage MM are high compliance (30cu) and can be used too. I would not use any low compliance cartridge on this arm, but some people use them with higher mass headshell and technics subweight. In the Pic, the GAE does look nice with it’s finish. The GR looks a little less shiny but it is half the cost, so I get it. Yeah, exactly, the GAE is Limited Edition, the equal to GAE is "G". For half price is "GR" in silver or in black. By the way, what is the pitch control for? Is that geared more towards DJ’s, what benefit would it have for a someone like me? Most of the Japanese direct drive have a pitch control, but normally it is rotary knob (very little), Technics made it like a fader. You can simply ignore it. But it’s a nice bonus to tune pitch when needed. If you’re musician (with a perfect pitch) you can actually hear it as a pitch of instrument (tonality), Technics explained it somewhere in details. If you’re not a musician you can just use it to make a tempo of the record a bit faster or slower (whatever you like). When the pitch is in ZERO (locked in the middle) your record does not affected. You have to try this turntable in some audio shop in your area, it’s really unbeatable, like a tank! And i think this is best buy option if you want new for under $2k Technics turntable provide superb speed stability, the highest torque you can imagine (immediate start on constant speed, not like those slow belt drives). This is a top class machine and the brand with strong reputation. It is MADE IN JAPAN |
The SOUND is not belt drive or direct drive, the SOUND is mostly the cartridge, but the belt drive are inconvenient, slow, not stable in terms of speed, cheaply made toys (not all of them for sure, but those mentioned by the OP are definitely not the best belt drive turntables at all and very expensive for a belt drive). I’ve checked the price for a Dr.Feickert belt drive for example and it’s over $7000 (at least it’s easy to swap the arms on this one and it's a good looking table). Many people never heard of Technics, never tried it, all their life they thought it was made for DJs only (the biggest mistake), i assume they never seen an SP10mkII , SP20 or top of the line SP10 mkIII, and speaking of very expensive belt drive (that might be good too, but at much higher price) even brand new reference class SP-10R is still cheaper being the best new DD available today. |
This forum should be the exchange of knowledge and ideas, but when your individual opinion becomes so extreme that you are now forcing the other to defend themselves, its WRONG! @antinn I do not force anyone, but trying to provide some facts, links, technical information, prices in comparison etc .. which is all helpful in my opinion, anyone can compile it together and make a decision. But it is all based on my personal experience only, why not ? If i am not in America does it really change anything ? It is only more difucult for me to buy anything that available in America in many shops, so living in America you can go to the shop to try those turntable and to compare them, i did that myself. I can not be you or anyone else to choose plastic belt drive for $2k instead of decent direct drive for $1.7k ... sorry. Does it hurts your feeling each time anyone recommend Technics ? I’ve been using mine since 1995 and it is still working like new (not in the main system now). I love Technics, it is true, but not only this brand. However at the price point under $2k i can’t personally recommend anything else (apart from some better vintage direct drives). If you can do that please recommend your own choice of turntable on this forum and explain why, this would be helpful for OP to make a decision. Otherwise i do not see your contribution in this thread or am i missed something ? Let me do that again and you please tell me what is wrong: -made in japan for $1700 (entire turntable) -great tonearm, detachable headshell (easy to mount and swap cartridges without breaking tonearm wire clips) -high torque, superb speed stability -brand new direct drive servo from the most experienced brand in audio history (matsushita) -high weight, heavy platter, adjustable feet -pitch control -RCA phono output -easy to re-sell if needed |
@antinn Oh, the cleaning, ok ... forgive me. I do not blame you because you recommend Sota, cleaning records .. or because you’re living in America and prefer local products. Being Japanese the Technics is very well represented in USA since the 70’s. Most of out record made with Technics motor, because Neumann disc cutting lathe comes with Technics SP-02 motor. So i think Technics was (and still is) much more important for the vinyl industry than any other small brands. And using Technics no one will be frustrated with vinyl. |
Sometimes, when cost is a issue, looks are IMO far down the list of considerations. BTW, one of my MyMat customers (who is a repeat customer) has that Technics tt. He’s now enjoying two MyMats as a sandwich, with a KAB poly mat in the middle. I told him to throw away the stock rubber mat. On of the best MAT for Technics and almost any other turntable is SAEC SS-300 from the 70s/80s. The absolute best one in my opinion is gunmetal Micro Seiki CU-180 with ST-10 disc stabilizer, but this combo is very expensive and rare. Yet another great modern MAT is ($250) 47 Labs THE MAT from Sakura Systems which is the latest version of the Boston Audio Mat, so many reviews online. This is an image of perfect cartridge for Technics tonearms (Grace LEVEL II Ruby) on The Mat, i really like the surface of The Mat. It’s Graphite. |
One scratch on CD and you’re done, you can’t remove it and your CD will stuck on one note. Awful format in 21st century when downloads is almost free and digital can be stored on hard drive (on even cloud) in high resolution files (better than 16bit CDs).
The digital is definitely not about CDs, it’s about high-res files on hard drive and a proper DACs to reproduce it. Still so boring compared to original vinyl.
Tapes are definitely more fun. |
