Dear @gddyen: With its own headshell the tonearm EM is 35grs. You just have to weigh the FR headshell and the diference with the Orsonic is what you have to add/ subtract to that 35 figure and you will be around the EM data you are looking for.
Regards and enjoy the music,
R.
|
As always dead silence/no answer. Have not any single argument/fact as all the other promotion's gentlemans.
I'm sure that some day all of us will learn: or not?
R. |
Dear @geddyen : """ a tonearm with minimum degree of bearing friction and efficiente DAMPING. """
that's the Decca advise to the Super Gold owners. The tonearm and the after market headshell you choosed for your Decca cartridge goes against ( both. ) the manufacturer advise.
Your FR tonearm is a very old non-damped design. " Rings as a bell ". Your choosed headshell is an non-damped design too.
In both cases that's means a way higher distortions that a well damped tonearm/headshell design.
In the other side its VTF mechanism "" rings as a bell "" too.
If you have not other alternative to mount the Decca cartridge then make the VTF set up as if the tonearm design was not dinamically by design but static one, using exclusively the counterweight to make that VTF set up with the additional advantage that the counterweight will be nearer to the tonearm/bearing pillar.
Unfortunatelly you own one of the worst tonearm and headshell designs in those regards.
Now, due that the vertical compliance is very low in the Super Gold could be better that the resonance frequency stay very close to 10hz and if posible in a diferent tonearm/headshell.
Decca manufacturer knows very well its cartridge designs and that's why they give precise advise on what kind of tonearm mate well with it.
Of course we can use any tonearm and the Decca will " sound " but ( at least for me. ) that's not the priority but try to achieve the best quality sound/music performance level we can.
Regards and enjoy the music,
R.
|
Dear @fast_mick : """ AT ART9 mounted on a similar turntable and the 64S/2M combo sounds equally as good... """
good for you that sounds " equally " good when both cartridges are way diferent, both are good cartridges ( already hear it both. ) but with diferent quality sound performance level. Even you listen it with two way diferent tonearms and with the 64 with its " terrible " dinamically vtf engaged.
Seems to me that other that you like very high distortions maybe your system has very low resolution and you are not aware of your system distortions. Perhaps some tube electronics not up to the task or even all SS one electronics with " poor " performance?
Anyway, subject is that any single cartridge needs a well damped tonearm/headshell.
Some/many audiophiles " die for " very high distortions and do not care about.
Of course they all are wrong but we live in a free audio world and we can choose whatever but this fact does not means in any way is right because there are many audio things that we like but are not right but wrong.
Well, we have to stay away from undamped tonearms and undamped headshells. Name of the game in audio is to achieve the lowest distortion levels anywhere and overall in any audio system.
Audio ignorance levels always is a problem for each one of us.
Regards and enjoy the music,
R.
|
Dear fast_mick: """
To me the sound is perfect... """
good because that's the important issue to you and I can't disagree with.
Sooner or latter all of us go learning diferent audui subjects to improve our day by day music listening.
After several years I learned about the non-damped tonearms and headshells and why all goes against the music quality during playback. This statement has no relationship if what we are hearing through those kind of items like it.
Regards and enjoy the music,
R. |
Dear @lewm : Agree with you, there are several ways to damp a tonearm. Maybe as many as tonearm manufacturers but some of them just choose not to damp its designs.
Technics not only comes with that damping mechanism at the counterweigth but the blend materials used on the arm wand and even in the MK2 the Boron/aluminum hedashell has additional top plate damping.
Normally designers damp his designs not only in one way but use 2-3 ways to do it at the same timwe in diferent tonearm places.
The build materials per se sometimes are choosed by its damping characteristics as is the case of wood tonearm designs. Silicon damping mechanism along build material as SME: silicon plus dampening and magnesium. Damping at the bearing as magnetism or as in the unipivots. Others damps the internal arm wand as Lustre or AT. Micro Seiki MAX models are very good damped.
Btw, I don't like FR tonearms not because steel choosed build material but because is a non-damped design anywhere.
The enemy of the cartridge signal are: resonances/vibrations/distortions created and that's why every single tonearm and removable headshell must be damped. No single doubt about.
Almost everythhing in the analog front end is about damping. With out it we have and are listening just " sound"noise " but no MUSIC, high quality level performance.
As many things in audio and especially in the analogue experience is that people just don't want to learn and don't care to improve and grow up and live " happy " sticky in is each one " deep black hole " and they will " die " for.
Damping is critical everywhere in the system audio chain it does not matters if our system is a modest one or a megabuks one.
For me is just " ridiculous " ( for say the least " ) that today many of us are in love with undamped audio items !! and are proudly to " spread " that undamped BS and that's part of the audio world HIGH END ( ?? ) market niche where we all live. Makes no sense to me and I'm sure makes no sense to you. A free world!
Regards and enjoy the music,
R.
|
Dear @analogluvr : Audio world must lives with distortions and yes I love distortions as you too but difference is what kind of distortions makes less harm to the MUSIC and to what is recorded in the LP grooves.
I'm sure that you love diferent kind of distortions than me as many of other audiophiles. That's the main subject.
Regards and enjoy the music,
R. |
Dear @cleeds : """
but it’s really presumptuous of you to speak for others and state that they love distortion, too. """
No it's not. As I said in my post till today we have no altenative but live with distortions. Like it this fact or not.
Regards and enjoy the music,
R.
|
Dear @cleeds : Again, IT'S NOT. I don't care per se what any one loves to listen and how is listening it or what they think.
But any one of us and you are not an exception are listening " distorted " music through our audio systems and you can't change this fact. Any one of us can " pretend " that fact does not exist but is useless to do it because exist.
Regards and enjoy the music,
R.
|
Dear @cleeds : """
Raul is actually the only person I've ever heard who didn't think the FR-64S was an outstanding pickup arm. """
Not really. Now, one main target and I can say critical target in any tonearm design is that can cope with the cartridge needs and to achieve that main/critical target ( between other things. ) the tonearm it self must be " dead silent " adding no single kind of " distortions " or increment the cartridge/TT generated original ones.
To stay nearest that main/critical tonearm design the tonearm must be very very well damped and even if well damped there is no way to avoid 100% its " influence " against the cartridge signal.
Unfortunatelly the FR is a non-damped design and is far away from that main/critical target. That tonearm " promote " and increment " distortions " that does exist in lower " quantity/quality in a very well damped tonearm designs. I'm not talking what we like because that's does not change the premises.
J.Carr that's the Lyra cartridge designer, a music lover and an audiophile years ago posted this about the FR tonearm you love and that you think sounds " terrific ":
"""
but truth be told, I'm not overly enamoured of the "S" family either (and I say this as the long-time owner of a 64S with Elevation Base and Arm Stabilizer). The stainless steel is great to look at, but less great to listen to, and when I run mine I prefer to keep a compression wrap around the tube. """
A compression wrap around the tube.?. Please ask your self: WHY that compession wrap?
Easy answer: to damps in someway that " terrible " undamped design. To help in some way the delicate cartridge signal can't be totally corrupted by that non damped tonearm design.
Things are that I used that same compression wrap ( by Sumiko. ) with my FR and SAEC tonearms and for the same JC reasons.
It helps?, yes a little but nothing more.
In the other side the FR designers choosed the worst mechanism for set up in dynamic balance the VTF, that's a focus of added distortions all the time is in use.
JC, added:
"""
Finally, the headshell has a major impact on the sound, but I am sure that you are well aware of that. """
As the FR the Orsonic headshell are non-damped ones and cooperate in full to " promotion and added distortions ". Both terrible headshells for say the least.
Again, if the FR/Orsonic " fantastic " distortions are the ones that people like then good for all of you that like it.
Btw, @lewm , I don't know which Acutex model you are talking about but if it's one of the top in the Acutex lines I can tell you that you can't listen it in bad way even if you use your " hand " as a tonearm.
Regards and enjoy the music,
R.
|
@syntax : Your skills/abilities to avoid answers to my specific questions are " admirable ".
I never ever read or " listen " that you and your audio advisor ( btw, any one. ), that " die for FR marvelous performance/design ", any single argument and reasons WHY that FR helps in better way to cope/cover with the cartridge needs against a damped Tonearm and headshell designs and WHY the damped tonearms are an inferior kind of designs WHY does not helps to be a better cartridge match as the non damped tonearm designs.
So, you have other opportunity to put real light with specific arguments/facts of all the cartridge benefits of undamped designs against damped tonearms and headshells other that " I like it or sounds terrific ".
Btw, JC already gave you and your advisor a precise answer for all of us can learn and in diferent threads not only my posts but other people posts gave you very specific arguments about that no one prove are all wrong.
JC is not only the Lyra designer but he made and make cartridge designs for other " people ".
He was and is so succesfuly because not only his high knowledge level on design but because made and make his cartridge voicing and even makes voicing/tests top competiors cartridges and for do all that he has the right skills ( other than be a music lover. ) to do it.
He already tested almost any tonearm you can imagine ( included the FR as he answered to both of you. ) with " dream " TTs and electronics.
In the other side no one knows better the Lyra cartridge quality performance levels than JC and this is an additional fact that till today both of you never posted any single specific argument against JC " certified " arguments.
My " broken record " on DISTORTIONS came not ( as you said. ) from 6 years ago but years before that when I learned not only about tonearm or cartridges but about DISTORTIONS in any single link in the audio system chain and how to be aware of those distortions and what to do to put each one at minimum or near as we can.
In favor of Agoners and audio industry please don’t try to avoid again your good founded facts and give us that light/answers.
Regards and enjoy the music,
R.
|
Dear @lewm : A tonearm manufacturer " normally " makes his design for any kind of cartridge compliance included his kind of tonearm damping choice .
Feedback, vibrations, noises, resonances, distortions comes from everywhere ( TT platter, platter mat, LP, arm board, TT motor, air borne noise, etc, etc. ) in the room/audio system and the tonearm designer have to deal with all of them to achieve his tonearm targets.
Cartridge compliance is part of the cartridge suspension system that's " affected " by the suspension damping mechanism cartridge designer choosed and between other things the kind of dampers and damper build materials.
Each cartridge, independent of its compliance, has its own kind of vibrations/feedback/cartridge body ones, diferent compliance values only can change the amplitude or frequency where " vibrations/distortions can happen and of course tracking abilities.
In all type of cartridges a damped tonearm always helps against no damping at all.
Through our life, inside and out of audio world, we like several things that we know are wrong but we still are sticky to them.
Example: sugar/comercial chocolat are a human been " murderer " that always goes against our safety health but here we know is wrong and accept it ( does not matters that we go on eating sugar. ) and with the non damped tonearm we can't accept is wrong even with evidence against a damped designs.
What do we in the audio world?, nothing but try to be " self convinced ) through that: " I LIKE IT " and that's all and that's why one gentleman posted here:
"
Raul is actually the only person I've ever heard who didn't think the FR-64S was an outstanding pickup arm. """
With that sentence he thinks is confirming he is rigth when in reality is wrong on that subject.
Anyway, as always a learning day.
Regards and enjoy the music,
R.
|
@cleeds : """
It seems to me that it's really a matter of preference, ..""" that's exactly where started your misunderstood on what I'm talking about. I'm not talking about any one preferences or what we like but what is wrong or good that has no relationship with each one preferences and that's all. I posted that premise more than 4 times in this thread for no one could has a misunderstood on the subject as you did it. I can't argue against your or any one preferences, that's untoachable by any one but, again, that's not what I'm talking about. Got it? @lewm , I can't think to listen any single tonearm that present a bearing problem as yours where the tonearm bearing condition in 100% status is a must to have, a crucial parameter/characteristic/target for a good tonearm/cartridge quality performance level. Was a " surprise " to me when I read your post. Anyway, was your call and you like what you hear and this is your privilege. Regards and enjoy the music, R.
|
