not sure why that last response didn't jump up the thread? try again |
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Hey Phaelon,
thanks for your response.
Yes you're right, I do like listening to big speakers in big rooms!
I didn't explain the design of my room too accurately. The listening area itself is around 4mtr x 4mtr but one side is open to the dining room, so sort of an l-shape.
The listening position itself is pretty much set in stone which also means that the seat & the speakers are hard up against walls.
I was probably more concerned with the asthetic of the Scalas rather than their overpowering sound, they are quite a large speaker. Some of the reading about them on other threads on this site had indicated that they were quite well suited to small to medium rooms.
I had a set of floorstanders before changing over to the Diablos & one of the main drivers of the change was to tighten things up especially given the size of the room. But even though I do love the Diablos I miss that extra octave or so down low.
What do you think about the second sub idea? |
No no, this is exactly what I want to hear! =)
Having already part way made up my mind I need to have others who are more objective throw ideas/questions at me so I reduce the chance of making a decision that I regret. This is after all a pretty significant purchase (at least for my budget).
The 2.5mtr listening distance is a concern.
I don't think that the dealer will allow me to demo the Scalas at my home, delivery etc. I could take my amp into their shop which would go a long way to answering the question about suitability. Given the synergy of the MF gear with the Diablos I think the sound itself will be OK, just wonder about having enough grunt.
Doubt that I will be able to do a home demo of a second sub either. But the one that I am currently using is sounds fine & I have been able to get it to integrate quite well so think this will work. As mentioned it would also add to the HT experience. This is certainly a better option in terms of money/size/added HT ooompf. |
Given that the Scalas are sitting at the dealers at around half RRP, the deal is appealing. So the potential loss is not that high, certainly if the Scalas were new & closer to full price then it would be much more of a consideration.
I picked up my Diablos at a great price by importing them from a dealer in France. I have spoken again to him about a possible Scala purchase & his price is slightly better but there is no trade in option.
I will try to twist the dealer about a home demo. It would seem to be the only way to truly make an educated decision.
Had hoped to avoid pushing him on the service angle too hard so as to work him over on the price! Can I have my cake & eat it too!
Hmmm, much to ponder. |
Hi Kzhtoo,
The deal is tempting, but yes the room is the primary concern
Am going to talk to the dealer about a home demo, I doubt that he will be all that keen, but hey nothing ventured. |
Hey Elviukai,
thanks for taking the time to come back to me. Not sure if you got my reply yesterday.
Questions no problem, I've done my best to give what answers I can.
My father is a sound engineer, he will be coming over tomorrow to run some measurements on the room so hopefully will be able to provide you with something by Thursday.
Listening room is around 4mtr x 4mtr. Brick walls front & rear. Glass door/window one one side (with drop down blinds). Open to dining room on other side. Carpet floors. Leather lounge opposite front speakers for listening.
Both lounge & speakers are hard up against front & rear walls due to the size restriction, nothing I can do about this.
So I would say that my room seems to make the Diablos sound leaner than I remember them sounding in the dealer. But that is just my ears so let me do the measurements & try to tome up with something more accurate.
A friend has a set of Diablos in a larger room with similar amps & they do seem to sound more open. Like most speakers I guess they like being away from walls.
Have been speaking with a friend on another forum who has heard the Scalas being run from a MF AMS35i integrated (same power as mine). He felt that it managed fine, in fact he thought that it might have even run the Scalas easier than the Diablos (higher sensitivity?)
At the moment I am using one JL-F110 10" sub. I have played around with freq response & phase a bit & feel that it is working OK. Just the volume tends move up & down a bit depending on the source material. Don't have it set too high as I would prefer it to sound seamless rather than overpowering & muddy.
I have the pre running into the power via balanced & the sub running off the pre via RCA. From what I have read an external cross over might be the best way to get it working together, but I would prefer to avoid this expense if I can.
Musical tastes are electronic/dance, blues/acoustic, reggae/dub, bit of rock, little classical but not to much. So you can see that bass is a fairly important component.
Listening volumes are typically soft to medium, don't often crank things too loud.
I just was so impressed with the extra midrange of the Scalas & the taughtness in the bass. My wallet is more than happy NOT to buy them however! Would be content to leave it at one more sub & be done with it. Just the deal on the Scalas with a trade in on the Diablos is worth considering.
One more question about placement of the subs. What are your thoughts about placing the Diablos on top of the sub? I was playing around with the idea of mounting the subs on some granite plinths with isolation spikes & then taking the Diablos off their stands & placing them directly on top of the subs again with isolation spikes. Bad idea?
Talk soon
Thanks again |
Hi Raks,
unfortunately second hand Jl subs don't some up all that often over here is OZ.
If I was to consider two new JL-112 I'd be up for about the same as the Scalas.
Definitely a good option, but not sure I can make that work.
I would like to hear the step up between the 10 & the 12. The 10 is pretty impressive given it's physical size, I love it! |
Hey Elviukai,
I tried to PM you a reply but they blocked it because I listed my email address?
I'll do the measurements as you listed & let you know what I come up with.
I suspected you might say no to the sub placement idea. Again somewhat restricted about where they can go due to the size of the room. One can sit quite nicely next to the Diablo, two is too much. There are a couple of other spots where they could go and suit the asthetics of the room, but I doubt there will be the flexibility to have them placed in the ideal SQ position. We'll see.
Thanks again for your detailed response, much appreciated.
Talk soon |
Hey Kzhtoo,
thanks for the suggestion, the Dynaudios do sound like an interesting proposition. Elviulai in his first post on this thread made mention that they do have some "thump" down around 40 whereas the Diablos do tend to drop off much sharper than that.
Certainly price wise they are on the mark. I might have to look into what dealer stock them here in Sydney.
Really the only reason any of the thinking about the Scalas is taking place is because of the price I think I can get them for. If they were listed at RRP it couldn't happen.
That and the fact that when I did listen to them I was so impressed.
Thanks again for your input =) |
just thought that I would put this link up showing the specs on my amp if anyone was interested:
http://www.hifigear.co.uk/media/uploads/AMS35p-brochure.pdf
"The AMS35p drives most loudspeakers easily. We do not recommend speakers with a sensitivity below 86dB, unless you are using them in a relatively small room. Apart from that, the AMS35p will handle any loudspeaker without problem or strain.
Because of its high peak current (over 100 amps peak to peak), the AMS35p is, in real life, a really big amp. |
try that link again:
http://www.hifigear.co.uk/media/uploads/AMS35p-brochure.pdf |
Hi Washline,
thanks for your thoughts, I will definitely have a look at the Cardas website for the set-up method.
Unfortunately given the room size/layout the speakers have to go up against walls/corners.
I did some room testing yesterday which I will post in more detail later, but it was very interesting.
I hadn't had the chance to listen to the speakers separately. WOW. The left channel which is hard up in a corner was extremely bass loaded, the right which is on the open side of the room sounded so different, much leaner.
Some sort of room treatment is on the cards for sure.
If I do use two subs one will be set-up very differently to the other which could complicate matters..
Perhaps the adjustable nature of the Scalas may help to compensate for this?
Will post findings in more detail later today. |
Hi Washline,
until I heard the difference of the speaker in the corner to the open side I might have questioned your statement. But after the other day I think that you are right.
I always felt that the Scalas are going to be a bit OTT for my room, but the deal is tempting & who knows if I ever move to a different place the room will most definitely be bigger.
But it is a lot of money to spend on a maybe.
Starting to think that it might be better spent on a second sub / room treatments & some other tweaks instead.
Hey Kzhtoo,
I'm just waiting to get PDFs of the tests so that I can give some more detail analysis on the side by side results. In short though, Elviukai was on the money when he said the Diablos dropped of quite sharply below 70hz. The sub did go a long way to lifting things up again below 40 but there was a dip between 50hz & 40hz that I couldn't smooth out. But we didn't have enough time to play around to much with the sub placement / set-up.
At this point I'm leaning towards the second sub for a number of reasons, budget being the big one.
Will try to post the results over the week-end
=) |
Hi all,
apologies for not responding earlier, hadn't looked at the thread for a while & didn't realise that there were more responses.
Quick update, the Scalas have been sold, so for better or worse that option is off the table. The dealer does have a pair of Watt puppies 8 for sale though, hmmm.
Over christmas I ended up grabbing a second sub, JL-F112 & was able to find a Bryston active crossover from a seller on here. Will eventually sell the smaller 10" sub & buy another 12.
In the end there were just too many little doubts to justify the expense of the Scalas.
So now for the process of getting the subs integrated as well as I can. The crossover is proving trickier than I thought, getting some really bad humming?
NVP: no offence taken at all. You're right I don't know much, that's why I came here to get thoughts and advice from people like yourself who do have more expertise. I'm here to learn.
I read your thread about the price on the Scalas & how they seemed to be pretty easy to buy at a greatly reduced price. The dealer that I bought my Diablos from in France offered to sell me his demo units for $12k euro. Not sure exactly why this is, probably just economic pressures, they're not selling well enough for dealers to have them sitting on the floor, perhaps overpriced/better options in this price range?
I should have noted that although my father is a qualified sound engineer he hasn't actually worked in that field for a while. One most definite thought that he did have was that i was totally crazy for even considering spending that sort of cash on a pair of speakers!!!
The testing process that we carried out was a definite eye opener, really highlighted for me the impact the room can have. I have been able to move the speakers out from the corner & away from the walls a little bit (they now have a little more than a foot of space behind them) & this has helped. Also spiked the stands.
So plan to try & spend some time over the next few weeks trying to get the subs dialled in. Have read the thread you posted (thanks for that) as well as another pretty good one I found by the sound doctor ( http://www.soundoctor.com/whitepapers/subs.htm#2SUBS ).
Unfortunately I'm pretty limited in where I can place the subs, have been able to build them into my unit so that they sit side by side under my front speaker. Will be doing the crawl test to find out where the optimal position might be, but for aesthetic/space reasons they probably going to have to stay where they are. This allows me to keep the Diablos on their stands.
Have been reading a bit about the Velodyne SMS-1 EQ & have heard rumours that JL might be releasing their own active crossover. Any thoughts on these or alternatives?
Should I be considering room EQ instead? Rives PARC, Lygdorf, Accuphase? |
