First used turntable +- $20,000. Any suggestions?

Max,

DO NOT BUY A TURNTABLE USED. There are many good turntables new for under $20,000. Turntables have many parts that can be damaged in shipping. You are really taking a big risk. People are going to post on here how they didn't have any problems buying used online. Trust me for every turntable that comes okay there are ten other ones that come damamged. Then either it can't be repaired or it costs almost as much as buying a new one to fix it.

Second you don't need to spend that much on the turntable. My turntable costs $5,000 and it is more musical than a lot of other more expensive rigs. Why? The turntable itself affects the sound the least. First you need a great phonostage(I recommend the Messenger). Second the cartridge and tonearm have a greater effect on the sound than the table. Now don't get me wrong the table is important it's just the least important componenet in the chain.

Another good thing about buying the table new is that the dealer can set it up for you. I don't care how much you spend on a turntable if it is not setup correctly it will sound like crap. In fact your CD player will probably sound better. I believe that is why a lot of people on audiogon think there CD's sound better. It's because they don't know how to setup their turntables correctly.

Lastly, a properly setup table will blow away any CD player on the market-I don't care how expensive. For those of you who disagree with me you are more than welcome to bring your best CD player over to my house to compare.

Please email me directly if you need any advice.

Justin

Detlof,

Actually I agree with what you said. Let me clarify my opinion. I do believe that the turntable matters especially in the areas you mentioned. I just think that of all the things you can spend your money on in the analog chain you hit the law of diminishing returns the quickest with the table. Case in point. My dealer has a Brinkman with the Brinkman tonearm. I believe the price new is $18,000. My Michelle Orbe with the Graham Phantom and Koetsu Jade sounded better then the Brinkman. The cost of my Orbe is about $5,000. So my point is that you can get more for your $20,000 by buying the right components that will sound good together rather then dropping alot of money on a turntable and then not having enough left over for a good cartridge,tonearm, and phonostage.

Uhh...the Forsell turntable is the finest turntable on the planet. Also, The Walker is a tweakers turntable(of course the Forsell is to but requires far less and sounds much better). You need to make adjustments to it regularly. Not a good choice for someone just getting into vinyl.

Also, if your going to try to setup a turntable yourself buy a cheap one to learn on.

Setting up a turntable correctly is an art. It takes years of doing it to develop an ear for making the right adjustments.

Piedpiper,

It's a matter of personal preference but I find the Walker to be analytical and the Forsell very musical. However, I understand that a lot of people like that analytical sound. It's very in vogue with the reviewers right now. That's why you see MBL's equipment getting such good reviews. Personally I think it's because all the reviewers are so old that the're deaf so they need to have that thin, bright sound so that they can hear the music.

As far as issues with it I am friends with someone who had many of them(read between the lines). He constantly had problems with the suspension, the crazy air pump, and that ridiculously heavy arm that pushed against the side walls of his records. The records were actually noisier after he played them.

Maxx1973,

Go for the Brinkman Balance. It's the only turntable I would upgrade to from my Michelle Orbe. Even though I love the Forsell I am not a tweaker and I don't want to have to make adjustments to the arm every month.

If you do get the Brinkman don't get their tonearm. Read my previous post about the comparison between my turntable and theirs. The Brinkman can be a little analytical if you don't get the right tonearm and cartridge. However, you haven't stated what kind of sound you like. Do you like things more musical or more analytical? If you want a very musical, lush sound then I would go with the Koetsu Jade cartridge and the Graham Phantom B-44 tonearm. Seriously you will be in heaven.

Raul,

I would describe analytical as a very bright, lean sound, lacking in the mid-bass, it can also be very detailed. It can be very impressive at first but fatiguing after some extended listening. Some examples of analytical equipment are anything by Krell or MBL.

I also agree with Detlof's description. To me something musical just sounds more like the real thing. It's less artificial sounding, has more air and bloom to it. It's full and lush sounding. Instruments in systems that are musical sound like they do in real life, yet you are drawn into the music as a whole. You find your toes tapping and you are connected and moved emotionally.

I don't like analytical sounding gear. It sounds wrong to me, but lots of people like it, and it makes them happy, so whatever.

Piedpiper,

I wouldn't lump the recording into the definition of analytical vs musical debate. Yes there are bad recordings that one could say fall under my definition of analytical;however, when they all sound that way, well that is when you have a bad system. I think that is the point.

I do agree with your comment about not having to give up details for naturalness. My system is very detailed;it's just that those details don't jump in my face and yell "look at me".

Piedpiper,

Agreed!