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First Order Crossovers: Pros and Cons

I wonder if some folks might share their expertise on the question of crossover design. I'm coming around to the view that this is perhaps the most significant element of speaker design yet I really know very little about it and don't really understand the basic principles. Several of the speakers I have heard in my quest for full range floorstanders are "first order" designs. I have really enjoyed their sound but do not know if this is attributable primarily to the crossover design or to a combination of other factors as well. In addition, I have heard that, for example, because of the use of this crossover configuration on the Vandersteen 5 one has to sit at least 10 feet away from the speakers in order for the drivers to properly mesh. Is this really true and if so why? Another brand also in contention is the Fried Studio 7 which also uses a first order design. Same issue? Could someone share in laymans terms the basic principles of crossover design and indicate the advantages and disadvantages of each. Also, what designers are making intelligent choices in trying to work around the problems associated with crossover design? Thanks for your input.
dodgealum

Showing 4 responses by eldartford

eldartford
4,262 posts
 
Biomimetic...The polarity of the driver wiring is determined by how the speaker system is connected internally. If it has biwire terminals you could mess with this by reversing the cable at one terminal.
eldartford
4,262 posts
 
Dodgealum...There is no magic! No matter who designs the crossover each section, which is worth 6 dB, causes a 90 degree phase difference between Hi and Lo. Both Hi and Lo phase vary with frequency, but the difference remains 90 degrees. Of course, as you go away from the filter break frequency (crossover frequency) the amplitude of the Hi and Lo signals diminish so that phase is not a big issue.

So, a 12dB crossover has a phase difference of 180 degrees, and if you hook the tweeter up with reversed phase the audio output will be back in phase. With the 24dB crossover that you mention the phase difference is 360 degrees, which is the same as zero, so the drivers, both connected with normal polarity, will be back in phase.

So why do people like 6dB crossovers? The audio output of the drivers may be phase shifted from the electrical signal, and, at a selected frequency, can also be adjusted by positioning of the tweeter with respect to the woofer. So, with tweeks, a 6dB crossover can avoid the 90 degree phase shift, at least at the crossover frequency which is where it matters most. FWIW, 6dB crossovers also require the minimum of crossover components.

A passive 24dB crossover is a tough nut to crack, and therefore rare, but is easily implemented in electronic crossovers, where it is very common.
eldartford
4,262 posts
 
Skrivis...If, as you say "a 1st-order x-over sums to a piece of wire" it must follow that a second order crossover, which amounts to two first order filters in series, is the sum of two pieces of wire.

But I agree that digital crossovers can do wonderful things.
eldartford
4,262 posts
 
greenmountainaudio@adelphia.net...Yes the component values, for a particular frequency, differ from a first order filter because the cascaded filters are working from and into different impedances. But they are still two series filters. In the case of an electronic crossover, fourth order L/R for example, each of the four filter sections includes a buffer amp, so that each stage is similarly driven and loaded, and in this case the component values are the same.
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