Finally stepping into the hobby after 30 years of watching from the sidelines


Ok, so I hope you are all ok with a longwinded post from a first time user of the forum.  I have been obsessed with vinyl and tubes since my dad played records for me as a 5 year old.  My wife and I are finally in a place that we can take the leap into the scene.  We want to grow our system over time and may even create 2-3 systems along the way as we have a bed and breakfast where we want to make analog part of the theme. 

We have made up our mind that our first speakers will be Vandersteen 2CE sigs.  That is about as far as we have gotten.  We definitely want to power them with tubes and have very little idea of where to start.  Obviously the mainstream option would be a Mcintosh mc275 and our local HiFi salesman would LOVE to sell us a pair of those.  However, we know that there are several cheeper/better options out there and would love some input from the board.  We'd like to keep the first amp under $3,000, but we aren't locked into that.  Keep in mind that we are ok starting with a single amp and then adding a second one along the way to mono them.  Also, we would love some help with a table/arm/cartridge!  One with an integrated phono stage is fine to start with and we would again be open to upgrading and adding a stand alone phono stage later on.  

We will be doing some electrical work soon to run a 40 amp fuse to the BnBs espresso machine and would be open to setting up a dedicated line for our main system at that time so that we can have clean power.  Has any one had any experience with this?  Any ideas or recommendations that you may have would be a big help here! 

Thank you all in advance, and we are really excited to finally be part of the scene! 
cottguy

Showing 7 responses by frogman

Inna, his "paradigm" includes Vandersteens; he has decided those are the ones.  Why, then, do you recommend other speakers?  This is not a contest and different approaches are educational.  I stand by my suggestions.  
Welcome back to the hobby! I’ve been at this hobby for a very long time and, while I can’t claim to be familiar with the various very latest gear (amps) that will undoubtedly be recommended, I think I can offer some advise on some basic and time proven rules of thumb that might help you make some smart decisions:

Vandersteens: You like them and have decided; they are a good, solid choice. Next, and rule of thumb no.1:

-SOURCE, SOURCE, SOURCE! No amount of information lost at the source can be retrieved further down the line. I don’t like the idea of starting with a turntable with a built-in phono stage. Given the direction you seem to be headed in, this won’t satisfy for long and may (will) cause problems in setting up a good sounding, well balanced system. Consider starting with a solid turntable/arm/cart (especially the table).

-I know the 2CE’s well and they are a very good speaker and will satisfy with your music preferences. They are full sounding with a natural midrange which will do justice to piano and vocals. However, they are not the most resolving or detailed and whenever I have heard them with less than top-tier (expensive!) tubes they have always sounded a bit murky and lacking some detail with a balance that was TOO full sounding to my ears; this, including the already recommended Quicksilver monos which is how a local dealer demoed them for me. I have heard them sound very good with the right ss amp in the context of a well balanced system. I am a die-hard tube guy; but, personally, I would start with a good solid state amp like the Ayre that Stringreen suggests. Many other options available. When you have your front end (tubes?) settled and tuned, then have your dealer loan you (he should....considering) some tube amps and see what you think.

-I would not buy subs yet. You may find you don’t need them and will add a lot of complexity to the initial process of building a system. Get to know how the 2CE’s interact with your room’s acoustics first.

-I like the idea of a dedicated line for your system and since you are having electrical work done anyway ITS A NO BRAINER. Like the attention that the source deserves, this is as fundamental as it gets.

-Start with good solid cables that are not "trick" cables until you are settled with your amplification (low and high level) and optimize later. Mid-level Kimber comes to mind.

You will be getting to know your room and how the new gear interacts with its unique acoustics. IMO, the source is where the magic happens or gets destroyed. Slow down and always remember that component interaction and synergy is key. You have your speakers. I would focus on a front end that will satisfy long term and take it from there. Amplification and cabling that you may replace later would certainly be more than adequate for 2nd or 3rd systems.

Good luck!




My dear Inna, "nasty"?  I don't think it was I who opened that door.  So, I suggest we lighten things up and get back to the business at hand.  Since I am so confused, kindly explain how Vienna speakers are "within his paradigm".  As I said, I stand by my suggestions.  The basis for those suggestions is simple common sense.  

****That's a dangerous invitation, it may cost him dearly.****

Precisely.
Mapman makes a lot of sense and mirrors some of what I said re amplification.  Cottguy, you are being very reasonable about the way you are pursuing this project; good for you.  This question is not meant to challenge you in any way and you, nor anyone, need to justify any decision made with your pocket book.  I am genuinely interested in knowing what it is about tubes that makes you so set on having them.  Regards.
cottguy, thanks for answering my question re your need for tube amplification.  I share you views about their sonic attributes, and as I said previously, I am a die-hard tube guy and I use a pair of powerful Manley monos that I would not trade for any ss amp that would be remotely in my price range.  I think you are going about this in a sober way and are sure to make the right decision for yourself.  Having said that, as I'm sure you know, there are always compromises that have to be dealt with unless the budget (and commitment) is limitless.  I also think it's fair to say that, all good and honest intentions aside, these threads are an opportunity for respondents to live vicariously through the OP to a degree.  With that in mind, when I consider all your goals for this system, and limitations,  one other scenario keeps coming up for me. 

As I read your descriptions of your room and your goals for this system one of the things that kept coming up in my mind was a system that I had years ago in a room similar to yours.  It was in a loft space with a very large listening area.  In that room, I achieved one of the most spectacular sounds that I have ever had from a system (there have been many)  or heard from any system; sadly, I have not been able to replicate that kind of sound in listening rooms that I have had since.  There is something very unique about the way that a pair of well placed planar speakers lock in with a room that can give an incredibly impressive soundstage.  Have you considered Magneplanars?  You want "wow factor" for your guests?  In all my years as an audiophile, no other component has elicited  more "wows" from guests than my Maggie MG3A's; not even my tube amps.  "WHAT ARE THOSE?".  "AMAZING?".  Great midrange and their best bass in larger rooms away from the rear wall.  Question: I am sure you have considered the issue of placement of your electronics, but do you really want a (or two) tube amp with exposed hot tubes in a common area where inexperienced admirers will be holding drinks and generally not being particularly cautious around equipment?  Additionally, to achieve that kind of sound Maggies need a lot of current from the amp; and wonderful results CAN  be achieved with the right ss amp.  You can have that "glowing tube effect" and a good degree of the warmth and musicality of tubes from a tube preamp placed in a less vulnerable location.  Just having a little fun and maybe this suggestion will be food for thought.  Good luck.
****Cool thing about your setup is they will throw sound in both directions .**** 

Excellent point that I meant to include in my comments.  Cottguy will be placing his speakers well into the room in either direction and that feature could be a big plus.
oleschool, in the loft space that I mentioned and with a listening position about 16-18 feet from the speakers, I was able to achieve (measured) a pretty solid 26hz.  With no subs!  The soundstage was absolutely huge and very stable and well defined.  My MG3A's were highly modified; but, still....I would not have believed bass response like that from Maggies.