@phusis I whole heartily agree with your post! I have also argued for years now that BOTH tracks should be present on the Bluray / UHD disc. We should optimize a lower reference level mix for those that prefer it to the more dynamic Theatrical mix. But we should also 100% absolutely keep the original mix intact for those of us who do want that experience!
I can't say for sure what is happening with the Disney tracks, but I do know that they now require a home theater mix that is suitable for streaming due to their new platform. All of the streaming formats require a compressed track. Not nearly as compressed as broadcast standards, but still significantly compressed compared to a theatrical mix.
Something I came to find out a few years back was that MANY times someone else other than the original sound supervisor and re-recording mixers would make the compressed home near field mix.
I encountered this myself accidentally when the film editor asked me to stop by the near field mix that was happening without any of us there to supervise. I stopped by and was shocked at what was happening. People that were not involved with the original creation of the soundtrack were making creative decisions based on their own opinion!
There was an opening scene that involved a Huey helicopter and a character yelling at his platoon. I mentioned TWICE to the director that the DX was being obscured by the Music and SFX and we should raise or lower one or the other. The first time he said - "Duly noted." The second time I knew I had crossed the line when he told me. "I am ok with him being obscured here - the audience gets his intention by his attitude and energy. The actual words are not important in this case. I also hope this is the last time I have to tell you this." Not to mention names, but this director is not a feeble man and can be quite intimidating. We became friends and always joked about that little exchange.
Anyway - what I heard during the near field mix was someone from the studio complaining that they could hear the DX for this very scene. They told the mixer to lower the SFX so they could clearly hear the DX. I said "STOP! What are you doing??!" They explained and I said I nearly lost my life on this very line of DX during the final mix - do you have the director's permission to be making creative changes? If so please proceed, but this is NOT his vision. I pulled out my cell phone to call the director to make sure this was indeed ok and immediately the studio rep said. "No I don't have permission." Then he went on to say - "Well I just think movies are mixed too loud over all."
I then called the Oscar winning mixers that mixed this film and asked them how they would like to proceed with the near field mix and passed that information on to I and the mixer handling the near field and we undid a fair bit of work that had been done.
The studio rep had a lot of technical setup specifications, but when it came to setting a reference level for a mix... he would find the loudest part of the film and adjust it to where he likes to listen. Then he wanted to adjust the entire track to compensate for this. Ultimately compressing the hell out of the track by raising all of the quiet scenes so they could now be heard. I listened to one of these mixes and I guess if i was watching an action film at my grandmas house while baby sitting... it would be great! If I was watching it and wanted any of the theatrical movie going experience, well that was out the window and I might as well rewatch an episode of Murder She Wrote for something a little more dynamic!!!
After that experience I found out that there were many little shops doing home mixes for studios by people that had no knowledge of how or why something was mixed they way it was during the final mix. Besides changing levels, they would often re-pan information to surrounds even add new SFX they liked better. It was the wild west! Now days we push to make sure the same team that creates the final mix stays on to create the near field mix.
Again.... I ramble on and on and on....
Thanks again for your post!!!
I can't say for sure what is happening with the Disney tracks, but I do know that they now require a home theater mix that is suitable for streaming due to their new platform. All of the streaming formats require a compressed track. Not nearly as compressed as broadcast standards, but still significantly compressed compared to a theatrical mix.
Something I came to find out a few years back was that MANY times someone else other than the original sound supervisor and re-recording mixers would make the compressed home near field mix.
I encountered this myself accidentally when the film editor asked me to stop by the near field mix that was happening without any of us there to supervise. I stopped by and was shocked at what was happening. People that were not involved with the original creation of the soundtrack were making creative decisions based on their own opinion!
There was an opening scene that involved a Huey helicopter and a character yelling at his platoon. I mentioned TWICE to the director that the DX was being obscured by the Music and SFX and we should raise or lower one or the other. The first time he said - "Duly noted." The second time I knew I had crossed the line when he told me. "I am ok with him being obscured here - the audience gets his intention by his attitude and energy. The actual words are not important in this case. I also hope this is the last time I have to tell you this." Not to mention names, but this director is not a feeble man and can be quite intimidating. We became friends and always joked about that little exchange.
Anyway - what I heard during the near field mix was someone from the studio complaining that they could hear the DX for this very scene. They told the mixer to lower the SFX so they could clearly hear the DX. I said "STOP! What are you doing??!" They explained and I said I nearly lost my life on this very line of DX during the final mix - do you have the director's permission to be making creative changes? If so please proceed, but this is NOT his vision. I pulled out my cell phone to call the director to make sure this was indeed ok and immediately the studio rep said. "No I don't have permission." Then he went on to say - "Well I just think movies are mixed too loud over all."
I then called the Oscar winning mixers that mixed this film and asked them how they would like to proceed with the near field mix and passed that information on to I and the mixer handling the near field and we undid a fair bit of work that had been done.
The studio rep had a lot of technical setup specifications, but when it came to setting a reference level for a mix... he would find the loudest part of the film and adjust it to where he likes to listen. Then he wanted to adjust the entire track to compensate for this. Ultimately compressing the hell out of the track by raising all of the quiet scenes so they could now be heard. I listened to one of these mixes and I guess if i was watching an action film at my grandmas house while baby sitting... it would be great! If I was watching it and wanted any of the theatrical movie going experience, well that was out the window and I might as well rewatch an episode of Murder She Wrote for something a little more dynamic!!!
After that experience I found out that there were many little shops doing home mixes for studios by people that had no knowledge of how or why something was mixed they way it was during the final mix. Besides changing levels, they would often re-pan information to surrounds even add new SFX they liked better. It was the wild west! Now days we push to make sure the same team that creates the final mix stays on to create the near field mix.
Again.... I ramble on and on and on....
Thanks again for your post!!!