Fidelity vs. Musicality...........Is there a tug of War?

Dear lemonhaze it is a misunderstanding...


If you read my post i specifically said that timbre cannot be reduced to fundamental frequency and harmonics ONLY...A  relatively low cost dac cannot replace room acoustic for  example...And most of the times even the costlier dac cannot...


All acoustic science and psycho-acoustic science cannot be reduced to Fourier transform...There is more in "timbre" concept than meet the eye....

If it was  not the case there will be no definition of "timbre" in 5 points at least like for example in this wikipedia definition:

Many commentators have attempted to decompose timbre into component attributes. For example, J. F. Schouten (1968, 42) describes the "elusive attributes of timbre" as "determined by at least five major acoustic parameters", which Robert Erickson finds, "scaled to the concerns of much contemporary music":[4]

1. Range between tonal and noiselike character
2. Spectral envelope
3. Time envelope in terms of rise, duration, and decay (ADSR, which stands for "attack, decay, sustain, release")
4. Changes both of spectral envelope (formant-glide) and fundamental frequency (micro-intonation)
5. Prefix, or onset of a sound, quite dissimilar to the ensuing lasting vibration

@mahgister,
No argument from me in regard to the influence of the listening room acoustics. But one has to assemble an audio system to place in the room.

I am sure that you know the basic ....Your post speak well for yourself...


But assembling a good system at low cost is relatively easy nowadays , thanks to great engineering progress in audio...

Embedding rightfully a good system, mechanically, electrically and acoustically, is less, way less easy than picking a good system to begin with....It was for me at least....

That is my only point.....And my post goes in the opposite direction of most audio thread where the  solution is and always will be upgrading gear....

Then sometimes basic evidence are forgotten....

Individual choices so good they will be cannot replace simple acoustic controls for example...

No dac, no amplifier and no speaker can beat the room....Especially if we think with S.Q./price ratio in our perspective...

Saying that high end audio is unknown and inacessible for most of us is not false, it is worst than a lie, it is an half truth claimed by sellers....Or it is a common place evident fact... There is always "better" than what i own....

Of course there exist many better audio system than mine....But the goal is to reach optimal S.Q. not perfect S.Q.....With many low cost embeddings methods controls: mechanical,electrical and acoustical....

The only one who will speak otherwise are snobs or sellers....Or a mix of the two....

Timbre perceptive experience cannot be reduced to a mathematical additive bunch of frequencies and harmonics only ... Acoustic of small room play a great role more than the new hype electronical gear....

Then if separating fidelity and musicality is not common or possible in the musical world.... In the artificial audio engineering world it is possible ....

To equilibrate then these 2 perspective, the musical and the audio world, acoustic experiment is the golden way....

Musicality is linked to fidelity and fidelity to musicality...In music it is called "timbre perceptive experience"...


Choosing make no sense for me...

But there is a relative hierarchy between these 2 in the audio world not in music...

Because no gear system is perfect i could prefer one which will be musical to another one who would be characterised with more fidelity...

But it is possible with ACOUSTICAL science to improve optimally any system , musical one or more fidelity one....

Then even if there is no theoretical limit for the scale of high end quality product, these products must be EMBEDDED in an optimal acoustical environment to give the most of their potential...

I am surprized like usual, (then at the end not so much surprized 😁😉 ) that in audio thread people vouch most of the times for their favorite branded name high end product ignoring the powerful role of acoustic to reach musicality +fidelity qualities in the same perceptive experience which is called "timbre perception"....

Dont read reviewers of possible high end gear product first, buy first one acoustic book and listen and experiment....It cost me almost nothing....

And i have both musicality and fidelity....Not the best in the world among all system here.... But my system is one of the best for his ratio S.Q./price....my system cost is under 500 bucks...

All that thanks to acoustical, mechanical and electrical embeddings controls...

Dont spend money but think and experiment especially with acoustic....