Fidelity vs. Musicality...........Is there a tug of War?

kijanki, this thread is not about you and your Benchmark.

Musicality is a rather vague and nebulous term but I think coined to differentiate between a system that is overly detailed and a system that has detail but does not slap you alongside the head. The fixation with detail has lead to systems that verge on the unlistenable when a few of these detail monsters are combined.

I have such a system that allows me to listen to maybe 20% of my files, the others are just screech. I am working to attain a system that truly entertains with the vast majority of my collection. So to address the OP's question, I err on the side of 'listenability'.

The endless striving for detail, detail, detail leaves me cold. The type of detail some systems produce are not heard at a live performance unless you are one of the performers. Have you ever closed your eyes at an unamplified performance and tried to locate a certain instrument? I find I can hear where it is located but certainly not with clinical precision. I feel audiophiles themselves are partly responsible for this sorry state of affairs by elevating detail as a fundamental requirement.

A friend of mine borrowed a Devialet amp claimed to be awesome. I'm sure the measurements revealed vanishingly low distortion etc. but the amp did not stay connected for very long. We inserted his 300B tube job and immediately relaxed with the music, enjoying the sound coming at us. It did not have the bass slam or control of the other amp but it sure did entertain us. My &%^$ detailed system is hardly used now except for movies which used to take a back-seat to the music evenings my wife and I once looked forward to. Sad but true.

kijanki, lets look at what you said I said  😕

You don't like very detailed sound .. I don't think I said that, I said I don't like the result of combining components that major in detail.

You don't like perfect imaging .. I did not say that either, just that pin-point imaging does not occur at a live event.

You like coloring of the sound by overly warm 300B .. yes, guilty as charged but again not quite what I said. I think anybody present when we swapped amps would have not only preferred the valve amp but thoroughly enjoyed it.

I played one of my favourite and best recorded albums which I recommend to all. It's Christina Pluhar's Los Impossibles where we could clearly hear the size of the recording venue, where the baritone voice was cleanly separate from the other voices in the choir. Another acid test is 10CC's I'm not in love. This is poorly recorded and what was heard that day was not a magical transformation but it was rendered in a way that brought back some strong nostalgia. I was able to listen and enjoy and this to me is all that matters.

For a system to provide a sense of space fine detail is required. For a piano to sound like a piano the fundamental and all the harmonics need to be cleanly produced demanding detail. When harmonics are missing the ear/brain relationship has to work much harder leading to fatigue. Taken to the extreme, if we deliberately remove all harmonics we are left with just the fundamental frequency and if middle C was struck all that would be heard is a 261.6 Hz sine wave. We heard piano sound beautiful and I grew up with piano being played and though I don't play do know what a piano sounds like. For that piano sound we enjoyed that day I did not analyse, did not need to, it sounded glorious. The detail was there but just presented in a civilised manner.  😁

@mahgister I usually enjoy and mostly agree with your posts except this:

Timbre perceptive experience cannot be reduced to a mathematical additive bunch of frequencies and harmonics only ... Acoustic of small room play a great role more than the new hype electronical gear

Timbre is in fact exactly that, it's the fundamental frequency (pitch) with its associated harmonics that allow you to recognise what instrument it is. The effect of the room will determine how you perceive that timbre.

I do definitely agree with you about the room however. You may have noticed that I often join in a thread about acoustics and hold that the room has a huge influence on the resultant sound to the point where I have stated that a mediocre system in a properly treated room (beyond just a rug and curtains) will provide far greater enjoyment and reward than just throwing together a bunch of mega-expensive 'best in class A'  🙂












 

@ mahgister, yes a misunderstanding. All good.

The timbre of a sound is formed in it's entirety and does not depend on the room but is influenced by the room. By that I mean any instrument could play a note in an anechoic chamber or out in an open field and it's timbre will be heard.

In the wikipedia definition there is no mention of the acoustic propagation. As I see it the decay mentioned in regard to ADSR (point 3) is the natural decay of the instrument and not the decay behaviour of the acoustic environment which affects your perception of that instrument's timbre.

This link:  https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/fidelity-vs-musicality-is-there-a-tug-of-war?lastpage=true&am... where they claim ' the duration of a sound also affects how we perceive its pitch, loudness and timbre'
The sentence in parenthesis seems to support my understanding of timbre.