Fidelity Research cartridges


Any FR cartridge experts out there? Raul? Dertonarm? Syntax?
I have had an FR-7 which I bought a while ago. I tried it ever so briefly when I got it on an arm I now recognize as not being able to handle that weight (close, but no cigar). I just now pulled it out for kicks and after getting it adjusted with the big counterweight, I am VERY pleasantly surprised. Actually, I'm feeling kind of bubbly. It does not dig out the utmost in detail, but it just sounds very right.

Are there any other FR carts out there which are real steals if still in good condition? I know the MC-702 and the FR-1Mk2 and Mk3f by name, with good reps being assigned to the Mk3 and the MC-702. Given that the MC-702 and the FR-7 look quite similar, and they were offered at about the same time, what is different? And is the FR-7 just an integrated headshell version of the FR-1Mk3?
t_bone

Showing 41 responses by nandric

Hi Charlie, Welcome by the FR-7 club. For all second hand FR

components check: www.hifishark.com 

Hi Charlie, I would like to extend my ''welcome'' to Ikeda 9,

the cantileverless kind. My first impression is that this cart is

at least as good as FR-7fz which I consider as the best from

the 7 series. To me this means ''the best ever''. The proviso is

of course the ''subjective impression''. But I am very much surprised

by the fact that there is hardly any info about this cart. Considering

the ''fuss'' about  Decca even more strange. Assuming the right

phono-pre and tonearm (aka FR-64/66) one can end his search

for ''the best''  and spend his time listening to the music with those

two carts. Anyway this is my (subjective) opinion. I am of course

curious if there are others with Ikeda 9 experience?

 

Addition. Sorry ddriveman I forget your ''short shoot-out...''

I hope you deed find the right headshell-wire for your Ikeda 9?

My question is if your Coralstone is still your favourite?

Chakster, That is how ''general opinion'' works. One does not

believe his own eye in order to follow the so called ''custom''.

I looked many times to my sample and assumed that a former

owner retipped the original ''conical'' with ''line contact'' stylus.

However in contradistinction to you I was more intriqued with

the question why Mitch Cotter has chosen FR-7f for his celebrated

TT and even made his own SUT for the precious? But my wondering

was based on two assumptions which may be not true. The first

was the conical stylus and the second that FR-7fz sounds much

better. Besides the ''fz''' has more ''modern'' stylus and has more

admirer than the ''f''. I  obviously followed the convention  by

which ''more admirers'' means that they are right in the sense of

majority rule (grin). I consider my FR-7fz as one of my best carts,

second to none, and still wonder how this can be possible with

a cart from the 80is? BTW Dertonarm advised me 10 years ago

to try one of those FR-7 kinds but I was very reluctant to  do so

because I thought that I would need separte SUT for each of

my MC carts (+40). When I got my Denon AU-S1 which covers

 2-40 Ohms I bought more Ikeda's carts instead of  SUT's.




r,

Hi Chakster, Yes Axel retired and sold his ''shop'' to his assistent.

He got some curious illness (not a stroke) and lost command of

his left hand. But he was already around 70 so deserved retirement.

I moved to Expert Stylus in UK while British GBP lost value in

relation to euro like dollar deed (grin). Those who predicted the

end of euro are very silent now.

Dear chakster, I am not the right person to give you advice about

phono-pres but I own two highly regarded samples: Basis Exclusive

(gold) with battery power supplay and Klyne 7 PX 3.5 which is

praised even by Raul . That is to say one of the few next to his own

(grin). Considering your extended interest and not so extended

means I would recommend Klyne which can be obtained with

modest means. Typical pre for your experimetal nature because

the pre has 4 amplification stages (from 40 till 68 dB) as well

''high frequency contour'' by which each MC cart can be corrected

in its resonance region . Besides there are loading recommendatios

by which 47 K plays important role.

For this pre you should check regular the German HIFI market

(aka ''audio-markt.de'').  



The ''paradox'', the more one read the more one forget. The less

one read the less one forget... I have read this thread at least

5 time but discovered many valuable contribution by my present

reading. I obviously forget what Dertonarm, Carr and other has

to say. I hope that chakster will be as impressed with his FR-7f

as I was with my first FR-7.

Dear chakster, There is a thread or post written by ddriveman

by the title ''mimi shout out....'' in which he describes comparison

between 5(?) MC carts done with 3 friends. In short (grin)

you will be pleased with the outcome of ''your contender'' :

ex aequo Koetsu Coral stone and FR-7fz.

Dear ddriveman, I have read and reread your ''mini-shootout''
many times. The reason is ''obvious''. It is very satisfying to
see confirmation of our own opinion or judgment. In addition the
price comparison between the winners made me feel as a very
smart person (grin). I noticed the mentioning of Ikeda 9 C, mk III
which was, alas, not possible to adjust optimal during the test.
But the ''injustice'' done to the ''poor thing'' is corrected by your 
addendum. However you deed not vote for the FR-7fz as equal
to your (beloved?) Coral stone so your praise of the 9C,mk III
above the FR-7 FZ is not very convincing. I myself have no problem
at all to love Maria equal to Silvia despite their different qualities.
In this sense I love my FZ equal to my C9,mk II. However i just
got the REX. The latest of Ikeda's cantileverless kinds. So I
fall in love as never before and forget Maria as well Silvia.
I seem to agree with ''American Marx'': ''If you don't like my
principle I have other''...

Dear edgewear, My question was why the most Japanese tonearms

producer followed Stevenson geometry. As you probably know

according to Japanese culture it is ''not done'' to deviate from , say,

national customs. Then there is this curious FR-702 with assumption

that this ''model'' is made for European market. But this cart has

shorter cantilever than other from the FR-7 series. I even assume

that experiments with shorter cantilever was a kind of evolution

to the cantileverless kinds. It may be also the case that Ikeda

deed not consider tonearm geometry as very important issue.

Nobody has to my knowledge claimed to hear something special

by whatever ''0'' points by those tractors. BTW I own about 3000

classical records but only few of them have the ''inner groove''

near the spindle. This may be the reason for the ''bad reputation''

of Stevenson (?). 



Ikeda's tonearm geometry versus FR-7 series cartridges.

Nobody ever explained why the most Japanese tonearms

followed  Stivenson geometry. As is well known(?) the FR

64/66 as well the new  Ikeda 's can be adjusted to Bearwald

by changing the spindle- pivot distance to 231,5 mm with

246 mm effective length. But then the integrated headshell

by FR-7 kinds does not provide for ''effective length'' change.

Some Japanese MM carts with integrated headshells do have

such provision. As my comrade Don informed me about his

Supremo cantileverless kind also has such provision by

its integrated headshell. At ''the end'' of the headshell there

are two small screws by which one can move the stylus forward

and back for the needed distance.

My FR-7 fz sample was modify by Van den Hul to Bearwald

geometry in addition to boron cantilever and Van den Hul

(aka ''Geiger'') stylus.

@edgewear, You changed my ''point'' about ''0'' points on the

record radius. I stated that nobody has claimed to have heard

something special by those ''0'' points: ''so it seems that some

people do hear something special when the ''0'' points are set

to Bearwald''. This however is different statement. Bearwald

geometry means that other radius on the record is optimal

then Stevenson. Stevenson nearer to the spindle , Bearwald

across the radius. Your statement is about relation between

the (two) points which determine the geometry my about individual

points regardless of  the geometry.


I think that many prefer FR-7 fz above FR-7f. However FR-7f
is more easy to find. Considering its ''modest price'' you are very
lucky to get ''brand new LP-mr'' for similar price. Lucky b...
parrotbee, If you mean with ''brand new Benz LP-S the latest
version with micro ridge stylus and bronze insert (16,5 g) then
LP-S. 
Confusion about effective mass by FR-64 s is caused by
assumption of ''given eff. mass''. But eff. mass depends from
the used headshell as well  the used counterweight. Not
to mention carts weight. 
Dear chakster (only teasing) By FR-64 S there is an extra weight but
lighter than standard; 170 g versus 250 g. I see that by FR-fx the
case is the other way round. Probably to compensate for aluminum 
construction(grin).  If I am well informed Takeda-san made 3 carts the
best among them is called ''Miyabi Standard''. 
Dear chakster, Are you some kind of masochist?  How can you
resist to try out your Miyabi standard AND Ikeda 9. III?  
parrotbee, I am not pedantic but one need to discriminate between
FR-64 and FR-64 S.''S'' standing for ''steel''. FR-64 , to be recognised
by round lateral balans,  has aluminum ( arm) wands. The 231.5 pivot to spindle distance change original Stivenson geometry to Bearwald.  The eff. length then become  246 mm. I ordered Mint
tractor for my FR-64 S despite the fact that I can adjust eff. length
with an (plastic!) caliper. 
edgewear, Levinson actually discovered Takeda and ordered all
''his'' models by Takeda which he sold under his own name. Krell
deed the same so, obviously, Levinson deed not own ''exclusive
rights''. All those carts were Miyaby Standard. Thanks to Levinson
Takeda become ,uh, known ''san''. He then started his own production with the name Miyaby. I am not familiar with chakster
MCA nor the ''third kind'' which he produced later. 
Dear chakster, I am not as patient as you are . So I can't wait till I
find whatever about this ''mysterious''  Takeda '' Ivory'' cart. Next
to your impressive cart collection you also have many carts pictures
so I hope  also Ivory? 

edgewear, Being dogmatic is only ''allowed'' if you are strong
believer in whatever religion . There are not many carts with
fast headshells. The most can be adjusted in their headshell  
to whatever geometry ( aka eff. length). Even Dertonarm used
his FR-7fz with Bearwald geometry. But I am not sure about
Syntax about whom I don't dear to guess. 
I don't believe Ikeda himself was as dogmatic as our friends
chakster and edgewear. I am not sure about other FR- 7kinds
but I owned this ''rare''  FR-702. According to Syntax this one
is made for European market. I am also not sure about that but
well that this one has shorter cantilever than the rest.  In one
of my contribution I even guessed that this was his ''evolution''
to cantileverless series 9 C. The number 702 is mysterious but
not its looks. This cart looks exactly the same as other FR-7
kinds. 

Dear endgewear, Ikeda produced at least 4 different tonearms.
To know if he was consistent one should know geometry of
each of them. I do remember ( vague) that some Russian cart
producer uses ivory for his cart bodies . The ''theory'' seems
to be based on acoustic properties of, say, ''bones'' . I think that
I have some ''hammer'' mede from bone in my ear. But this is
my limited medical knowledge. Besides I have seen so many
different materials for the bodies , even naked (aka without body)
kinds that I have no idea what or whom to believe(grin). Alas I
sold all other FR-7 kinds except FR-7 fz. So no chance to check. Besides I moved on to those cantileverless kinds with 9 REX as my latest purchase. 
 
Dear bukanonas, Probably because mammoth tusk are found in 
Russia I confused the producers (grin). I love FR-fz as much as
the 9 REX. The REX is latest in the series 9 cantileverless kinds 
with unbelievable compliance. Recommended VTF 1.5 g. I use
1.7 g. Wish you luck with 9EM. 
Dear chakster, With MM kinds we have had the luxury of Raul's
investigations and recommendations. But those who prefer 
MC kinds were on their own. This was an much more expensive
search. So the only way was to sell ''some'' in order  to buy 
some other. That is why I kept FR-7f and sold all other. With 
Ikeda's series 9 cantiverless kinds the situation was even more
difficult because of lack of information. Incomprehensible to my
mind but Ikeda obviously deed not spend much money for P&R.
So there are only few who are familiar with this series. No
wonder Ikeda returned to the ''old kind'' in his latest 9 series.
I own 9 TT but , alas, the FR-7fz and REX are in different league.


Thanks dover, Do you mean that the ''new owners'' produced this new ''9 series carts''? So I can still admire our ''old Ikeda'' (grin).
BTW what is your opinion about those ''cantileverless kinds''?
I am wondering why  those Decca  admirer never discovered 
this MC kind of dynamic wonder?
Thanks chakster, I had no idea that there are so many. Anyway I am glad to see that Ikeda admirer are growing (grin). As you can see
even choosy Dover is one of those. While I decided not to buy any
new cart anymore this ''damn Dover'' caused me to search for the Dynavector Nova 13 d. I found one in UK in NOS state and hope 
that is still  available. 
Dear dover, Does your praise reg. Dynavector Nova 13 d apply
for 13 d in general or for your by Dyna ''refurbished'' sample in
particular? Before I buy one more cart I would like to know. 
Thanks again dover, I nearly bought one increasing my MC collection
to 41 samples (grin). Difficult to accept the situation with 40 carts
while Nova 13 D seems to be the best but outside of my collection.
At last I learned from the Dutch to be more careful by spending...
They have an saying like: ''think before acting''. My translation was
''ask dover before buying''. 
Dear dover, ''the holly grail'' is metaphorical name for the
relation of comparison. The schematics is : a is beter than b,
b is better than c, etc.: R (a,b,c...n). Your statement was that
(your) Nova 13 D sounds better than my REX and your own
Kiwame. Because I do value your opinion I thought : ''Nandric
you must try this 13 D!'' But my Dutch background advised:
''ask first'' before buying. Your ''refurbishing story about 13 D''
needed nearer explanation. So I made ''some savings'' 
by asking. BTW the Dutch have the reputation of being the best
traders in the world (grin). 

@bukanona, My friend Don Griffiths has one FR-7f for sell
(dgriffiths et gmail dot com). 
What do you mean with ''different suspension''? All cantileverless
kinds have the same suspension. You may mean compliance? 
My Rex can be used with 1.5 g VTF the other version 2.5 -3 g. 

Dear chakster, We in Europe are very fond about those ''Encyclopedia's''. They cover 3 m in one's library and testify 
about ''high ranking'' of the person involved. ''High ranking'' in academic sense. Lucky us we don't need to spend so much
money on ''books''. We have chakster as our ''encyclopedia''.
Obviously Russian internet should not be underestimated. 
My brother Don got the other model with a shell called ''Supremo''
but without stylus. However Don also owns Decca and knew that
the person by ''Expert stylus'' is a good friend with the new owner
of Decca. So his speculation was that both will figure out how to
fix his Supremo. They deed so Don got his Supremo much cheaper
than Nandric his Rex. Both carts are bought in Japan . I hate
their intermediary. All of them charge fees for totally unknown
services...
bukanona, the biggest worry of us both (my friend Don and  I )
was if and where possible repair can be done. It is nice  to have
 two repair services. I will ask Don about the price of his repair
for comparison sake. 
Dear chakster, ''not so convenient?'' You should chose some other
hobby . Say stamp collection (grin). 
bukanona,  the new stylus  for Ikeda's cantileverless 9 series
cost 278 GBP by ''Expert stylus''. If other repair possibilities
are available is unknown. But, as I already mentioned, the
owner of ''Expert stylus'' is good friend of the Decca owner
so, possibly, they can figure out what can be done. 
BTW their own stylus is called ''Partrace'' an version of micro
ridge.
Addition, I forget to mention the following. The stylus by Ikeda's
9 series cantileverless kinds are fastened in different way to their
''holder''. This means critical reg. stylus length. However ''Expert
stylus'' also produces styli and can cut them at the right length.
This may imply that other ''repair services'' can't provide the
right styli. To me the repair possibility is necessary  pre condition
to buy any cart.

Yes , special  for ''choose chakster'' . I am wondering why he
bought Ikeda 9c, III without insurance that the precious can
be repaired in the West? But he may think that provided the cart
is new or NOS it will function for the rest of his life.
My Gosh what an romantic picture. If this picture say something
about you than I understand your problem. But there is this 
prosaic saying : ''love make people blind''.
Dear chakster, there was an thread about ''old school tonearms''
or similar. There are of course also ''old school  gentlemen''.
Your kind of music was (back) then not considered as ''decent''.
Decent was only classical music with exception of national (folk) music. The excuse was of course patriotism. 
Curious how ''decency'' can change as function of time. I got
so to speak an reproach in the sense ''those old people like only
classical music''. However those ''old scold'' regarded your kind
of music as noise not as music. Comparing funk with, say, Bach
is a kind of sacrilege. No wonder you like MM kinds (grin).
Dear chakster, I was only teasing you. On the Balkan we have very
exciting folk music. It is more popular than classical or jazz. 
But what do you mean with ''My age is also way different''? 
 I see that you admire many carts which I also admire. Those
are primary MC kinds but our consensus suggest no relation to
age (grin).