Fee for home audition

@svenjosh

I think I know the dealer you are referring to. If it is, he is the gentleman who sold me my Grimm. He is a stand up guy and once you’ve developed a relationship with him, you will understand why he does what he does. Its rational.

For instance, (if he is who I think he is) he is typically setting up 6 figure systems and time is money. For a new customer with whom there is no relationship, returns are a serious thing. Not you nor I but many “buy” only intending to demo, return and then shop for the best price. Why dont you take your dac to his store and that way you can test your dac with the multiple server/streamers he sells?

This dealer is one of the best in the business. Full stop. Is the demo fee high? Yes. Would I pay it? Not when I’m local and demo there with my dac.

But this dealer is one of the good guys in our hobby, he is worth developing a relationship with and he is an easy recommendation. In fact, he gets a note from me once a year thanking him for the relationship we share. The other trusted dealers with who I do business do as well.

@jayctoy 

I send and receive notes to/from those with whom I have business or personal relationships. Its something thats done in certain circles.

I have found that clear expectations up front has helped to establish some great relationships while enhanced expectations usually follow excellent transactions be they any size of one to one purchase. I've never shopped for Persian rugs although I certainly wouldn't rule it out in the unlikely event the Persians somehow begin to weave rugs to an aesthetic standard that would fit our decor.

In the old economy, the dealer/retailer had to get on bended knee to earn the business...but they were only competing with others in the same business. With the advent of online sales, there are so many more options for the consumer that the local dealer/retailer must prequalify the potential client. This is one way. 

@svenjosh 

I am not sure you know the dealer. 

I’m almost positive I’m right about the dealer…in fact, I would wager the cost of an in home demo that I’m right LOL! I hope you like the Grimm.

@soix 

I don’t think we’ve seen any dealers whining…your points may be valid…or not, depending on the dealer’s goals.

If it’s the dealer I’m thinking of, this person enjoyed a very successful career, retired and started his audio shop. He carries some super high end gear and imports certain other high end, well regarded gear. I’m so very sorry the OP and this dealer found themselves with opposing goals because the OP seems like an outstanding individual and i know, first hand, that the dealer is. This dealer is indifferent IMO as to whether he sells a box or not. He would probably be the first to tell you that he doesn’t sell boxes. You say adapt or die? That doesn’t apply to this dealer I assure you. I would say that he curates systems rather than selling gear.

All’s well that end’s well and the OP was able to accomplish his goals.

@soix

The Grimm is a streamer/server rather than a dac. Second, and I repeat this respectfully, if you find the policy distasteful, you aren’t that particular dealer’s target market. $12,500 is alot of money to many people but I promise it isn’t to this dealer. He isn’t arrogant in the least in my experience, just pragmatic.

If I happened to be a dealer of hifi gear…and if I voluntarily chose to have a policy of a 5% fee to demo a piece of gear in your home…. and if you rejected the offer…swinging by the shop to “rub it in the dealer’s face” would absolutely validate the strategy that was employed.

The OP was obviously an exception, but smaller headcount dealers must allocate their time to maximize either financial returns OR maximize what they enjoy doing. The dealer to whom I am referring (who I’m certain is the dealer in question) doesn’t appear to be driven by the money, he is comfortable. Sure he wants to do business but he does it the way he wants.

Prior to selling my company almost 30 years ago, it didn’t get really fun and really profitable until I began being more selective with whether to take on a new client or to decline an engagement.

@jayctoy

Ghasley when I go to audio dealers if I feel Iam not welcome, I just leave.Why waste time with those dealers.

That’s a rational course of action. Clearly the dealer in question has honed their business model to their preferred method of operation. Not everyone will want to do business with a particular dealer and not every dealer will want to do business with a particular customer. Its all good.

@soix

Really? Paying $650 for an hour review doesn’t seem out of line to you? How about this — it was so egregious the OP actually did go elsewhere and got a much better offer due to this dealer’s insane policy. Defend it if you must, but from a customer’s point it’s completely out of bounds, and the dealer lost a big $$$ sale because of it.

Listen, I’m not saying the policy is a rational policy for all. It is though a dealer’s right to decide how they wish to do business. They don’t typically decide to implement policies like these without empirical data they’ve evaluated. You characterize it as $650 for an hour and you find it outrageous. Cool. In the context of your world it likely is and I wouldn’t argue your point. I can imagine though that its an hour to get to the customer, an hour in the home (which it will probably exceed given the nature of the hobby) and an hour back to the shop to replace the demo unit in its rightful place. So, $200/hr plus fuel and wear and tear all around. I wouldn’t look up from my ipad for $200/hr but everyone is different. You describe it as a “gotcha” moment for the dealer that he lost a “big $$$ sale”…but for this dealer, $12,500 is more likely to be the sales tax of his average sale. There are only so many hours in the day and he has chosen how to allocate those hours. Is this dealer for everyone? No, of course not, but he has made a decision to not play in certain segments of the hifi market. Let’s just say his typical customer isn’t cross-shopping Gustard or Topping…they are more likely looking at a system approach, they want the dealer to deliver the highest quality system and price is secondary. As I previously stated, I believe I know the dealer and have done business with him and he is the farthest thing from arrogant or entitled. He is friendly, helpful, professional, communicates promptly and clearly, provides exceptional advice before the transaction and exceptional service after the sale. He may have just decided that he’d rather play golf on a Sunday afternoon than spend it providing free demos from which to be cross shopped. You miss a sale here and there but you avoid the time suck that many in our hobby unwittingly impose on others.

Do the 5% demo thing or don’t but at least the dealer is transparent and the potential customer can decide for themselves as the OP did and he chose the right path for him. The OP made the decision, found a dealer whose values aligned and its all good. He chose to pay shipping both ways and that particular dealer assumed the risk of shipping mishaps, etc. The OP did everything correctly for his circumstance and exercised his options. The dealer did nothing wrong and chose NOT to sell the leisure time he would normally spend with his family or church or enjoying an activity of his choosing rather than give away his time for free…They both successfully exercised their options appropriately for their particular circumstance. That’s the way its supposed to work.

Adapt or die.

I chuckle at this comment. On the surface, it sounds good…its a nice sound bite. The reality is that this dealer DID choose to adapt. He maximizes his available time and focuses his efforts where it makes the most sense for his business. You may or may not agree which is cool but again, if its the dealer I’m thinking it is, he’s been in business 15 years, has a brick and mortar location, stocks product, provides service, promotes local and national charities and is a joy to do business with for those willing to step over the small hurdle initially and establish a relationship. The OP seems to be a great person and he chose a path most of us might have chosen. The other side of that coin is the OP had never done business with the dealer in question (again, I’m assuming its the dealer to whom I refer) and he’s been in business for 15 years in the same community! So there’s that…maybe this dealer isn’t looking for a one and done customer…

So many of us in this hobby believe every dealer or manufacturer owe us something, which is unfortunate. Adapt or die????? I might suggest that this dealer made a decision to “swipe left or swipe right” on his own terms and its working wonderfully for his business and work-life balance.

And before you say to yourself “another greedy dealer “stealer” at play” I happen to know this dealer stepped up big time for the family of a manufacturer loved for many years in this forum and the audio community at large. Like many small manufacturers, this terrific guy was perpetually under capitalized and financially unprepared for his own untimely passing, leaving his family in the lurch. This dealer quietly stepped up to ensure they were taken care of and that an orderly transition would be possible for the family. So, he chose to invest a considerable amount of time and his own money for zero gain because it aligned with his value set. Toss generic popcorn from the bleachers if you will…but choosing how you do business and having it work out well, keeping your freedom, taking no crap  from anyone and pursuing your passion as a business is kindof the goal for us all isn’t it?

The customer is always right worked out very well for Sears (Amazon before there was an Amazon) didn’t it but the whole statement should be “the customer is always right, until they aren’t”. There is a barrier to entry to many of the finer things in life. We can choose to play or not to play but I repeat, if you find the policy offensive and refuse to ever consider doing business with this particular dealer, then his policy accomplished its goal: to filter some great potential customers (like the OP likely would have been) in order to filter the potential perpetual tire-kicking, time-sucking person more interested in discussing the mixing board at Woodstock and the good old days when he could spend every Saturday afternoon hanging at the audio shop without ever buying anything.

@jayctoy @grislybutter @svenjosh 

You may be right @svenjosh , it may or may not be the same dealer. I checked with my dealer and he doesn't charge 5%. He charges a token flat fee of a couple of hundred dollars pending the establishment of a relationship. He does charge 15% if you want to take a new, sealed unit and choose to return it. I don't believe a restocking fee would be considered out of line for fair minded people. That's fair. Its unfortunate that the dealer you describe doesn't reflect the high character of the dealer I've been describing.

Like in most areas of life, we get half the story and burn one side or the other at the stake. I do hope the OP posts his thoughts about the Grimm in his system and praises the dealer who sold it to him. We need more, not fewer, great dealers who take the risk, invest their money in stocking product, pay taxes and support an economy through their entrepreneurial efforts. Peace.

@svenjosh 

Congrats on your speed date turning into a relationship. All’s well that ends well. Settle in and enjoy the music…as an aside re:wifi. I and a few friends have discovered that the Amplifi wifi router imposes little compromise. I use an Alien in one system and I struggle to differentiate between wired and wifi sound quality. Best wishes in all you do.

@svenjosh 

@ghasley, do you use almpifi alien meshwork as Wi-Fi extender and connect to Ethernet or do you use usb dongle?

I have three Aliens in my home and use them as a wifi extender. The “main” alien is connected at my main router via an ethernet cable, the others connect to the main alien via wifi.  Next, ethernet cables from the other aliens to a component in each of those rooms. In one system, I have an audiophile switch between the wifi connected alien and the component. Im pleased, YMMV

@gents its going to be ok. Exhale….Reminds me of when I was in college and someone jumps in the middle of a bar fight without knowing which side did what or why. I still can imagine there was simply a miscommunication/misunderstanding. 

@svenjosh I’ve had mixed results with dongles…from bad to mediocre to “I guess thats ok for when we have company” but I havent tried many.  

@svenjosh 

I do have a router in the room so that’s not an issue. I need to access my NAS and I am thinking of wireless as there is only one Ethernet input.

Josh, you may want to rethink if you have alot of data. If convenient, maybe a high quality switch and direct ethernet connection? Glad you will be receiving yours in a few short days.

@svenjosh 

How are things progressing? Please share with us your chain from ethernet cable to Grimm to aes cable, etc. 

@svenjosh glad to have been of assistance (ie:PLL lock). With some streamer/servers where great care hasn’t been taken (like most most computers and consumer grade products) the PLL lock can be a useful feature. In your case, it is detrimental and based upon your observations, quite audible.

I assume at some point in this process you are going to share the dealer’s name from whom you purchased? Others on this forum could benefit.

Happy listening.

@svenjosh You misunderstand…not the dealer with whom you had a misunderstanding, please share the name of the dealer from whom you evenutaly purchased. The community benefits when we patronize better dealers.