Chet Atkins/Mark Knopfler "Neck And Neck". I have the original, I assume the MOV is also excellent! |
Alan Parsons "I Robot" MFSL |
Laurindo Almeida/Charlie Byrd "Tango" (Groove Note 45rpm) |
I've written about this elsewhere... Frazey Ford "Obadiah".
Slightly bass heavy but otherwise great! |
Albertporter: My copy is a "Linn Seleckt", from back in the day. (Don't know if that makes a difference).
Janis Joplin "I've Got dem O'l Kozmic Blues Again Mama" Speakers Corner, Sonny Boy Williamson "Keep it to Ourselves" QRP. |
Here's one I've always thought was pretty much perfect. It doesn't do audiophile gymnastics but has perfect balance and should be a reference for all modern music... War "Greatest Hits" United Artists label. |
This one punches way above "10". Blake Mills "Heigh Ho". |
Most of the Audioquest catalog, awesome sonics, no compression. |
Here's a surprise.. Jack Johnson "In Between Dreams" |
Colin Meloy " Sings Live" dbl vinyl
Willie Nelson "Red Headed Stranger" (on Impex). This is one lp that will tell you if you don't have your cartridge set up correctly, especially azimuth. |
Tony Joe White "Hoodoo"... analog all the way baby! |
Frogman: I think that you feel there should be more respect shown to this artist. I get it and can appreciate your post above. |
Graham Nash "Songs For Beginners" (Classic)
David Crosby "If I Could Only Remember My Name" (Classic) |
The Black Keys "El Camino" (deluxe version only)
Nat King Cole "After Midnight" "Just One Of Those Things" (Pure Pleasure)
Norah Jones "Come Away With Me" (Classic)
Death Cab For Cutie "Kintsugi" (for a modern lp)
Harry James & his big band "The King James Version" (Sheffield Direct to Disc)
Holly Cole "Romantically Helpless" (GrooveLand 45rpm disc) |
Jeff1225: Have you heard the (deluxe version)? The original release was a major disappointment. I was on the fence about recommending this (deluxe version) based on how awful the original release sounded but I made the decision to include it after repeated listens. Compared to the Nat King Cole lps I noted, there's no comparison but for a modern rock record, this one (deluxe version), stays on my list. |
Qdrone: (Ric Okasek "This Side Of Paradise")...(this is a correction...IE: respect...) I remember, years ago, really liking this lp. That was before I really got into high-end audio. To me, it sounds clean & clear although too clean. The drums sound like they are from an electronic kit, the overall sound, to me, reminds me all too much of the digital recordings I once loved but find hard to enjoy these days. I do really like some early Cars lps. |
...one more point... Greg Hawkes was a major part of this lp. I use to watch him and was amazed by his wizardry on a synthesizer. It may be that a good part of this lp was made using a synth? Just saying... The Cars were, studio wizards. |
Roy Orbison "Crying" (Mono.. Classic Records) |
..an encouraging statistic is that since this threads' inception, it has produced over 3200 hits! |
Frogman: I was thinking more about your response earlier. IMO, if we, the ones that proclaim to love music and the best reproduction of this music, don't show/have respect for the artists we love,.. all of this is but a blip on the airwaves, with little meaning! I really believe my love for music and music done right is an extension of my "want-to-be", (frustrated artist standpoint). Surely, if I was that artist, I'd like to think I deserved this respect from the one's who chose/choose to listen. |
The Jimi Hendrix re-issues on MCA heavy vinyl around 1997. (Wow, has it really been that long?). I just listened to "Electric Ladyland", and my suspicion is that the rest of them (which I own), sound just as good.
I can only imagine how the original mono might sound? |
Qdrone: Great story and by your account, a memorable experience. Thanks for sharing!
Skip James "Today!" (Pure Pleasure) |
Qdrone: I guess a lot of our submissions will be subjective. That will be in part, based on our own listening biases/systems.
I will have to respectively disagree with you on the Ric Ocasek lp however. It is good to have this type of discussion. |
Here are my personal gripes with the RO lp:
(1) It is thin, sterile and uninvolving
(2) In my system, it doesn't throw a huge soundstage
(3) To me, a huge soundstage does not in any way make an otherwise inferior recording one that I would recommend as an "extraordinary recording"
(4) This is basically a Cars lp for all intents and purposes. I get "pleasure" listening to The Cars lps, I get no pleasure listening to "This Side Of Paradise".
(5) Even on "Heartbeat City", made during the digital age, I get more pleasure from.
(6) This is IMO.
Thank you for responding. |
All of the lps we/I have bought for around 33 years have been in the "digital age" and I get much pleasure from quite a few of these. For example: Death Cab For Cutie "Kintsugi", this is my top pick right now for record of the year and the sonics are outstanding and consistent for a modern recording.
This lp is in no way (thin, sterile, or uninvolving). Take a listen to Broken Bells, Beck, Artic Monkeys, Jenny Lewis, Ryan Adams, Neko Case... these lps have "soul" and they are recent lps!
As you can see, I'm very passionate about music, to say the least! |
A positive thing that came out of this for me was, although it has been quite a while, I cleaned and listened to the Ric Ocasek & "Heartbeat City" lps before posting above. (HC) is a great record, especially side 2. |
... ("adjusting your arms' VTA") on any given recording for "a pure sonic return", (if there is no difference in the record thickness), is a (tell) that either your set-up is sub-par or you are adjusting for that particular recordings' faults! |
Qdrone: I'm not familiar with the Bowie you referenced. I'm really not sure if you are agreeing with me now on the RO lp or making a stronger case? The artists I mentioned above, all have bass and none are sterile or uninvolving, IMO.
I'm willing to go into detail on how I hear these lps: The RO lp:
(1) Soundstage: In my system the soundstage isn't what I hear in comparison to "Heartbeat City". On HC, there is a spread of the instruments across the stage, extending beyond my speaker's boundaries. On the RO lp, the majority of the soundstage is well within my speaker's boundaries. This aspect doesn't allow for a "soundstage spread". There (is) noticeable air or bloom, (however one perceives this) but I don't interpret that as part of my definition of soundstage.
If you'd care to expand on your perception of the RO lp in more detail, I'd be interested in your opinion. Otherwise, I feel we are getting off the main disagreement in our own opinions of the RO lp. |
...this may help...
My definition of thin or sterile is not a lack of bass but a lack of "soul". This "soul" is the essence of music. To me it (is) the hard to explain (in words) factor that finds whatever is within us and somehow gels with what the artist is trying to convey. It's what makes (me) bob my head or tap my feet or get goose bumps when listening, and I don't feel the need to think about taking the lp off my tt. This, along with how it would sound "live" is key. (When I attend a live show, I've never come away with thinking about air or bloom, to me that is a part of the listening at home experience that is a plus to some or a minus to others). Maybe a better definition would be artificial. Listening to music live compared to listening to the RO lp in my system is like night and day. (Aren't we suppose to be concerned with recreating music in our homes as it would sound live?) Also, thin and sterile, to me is a'kin to someone scratching their fingernails across a blackboard, a memory I didn't like in grade school and one I don't care for now.
I focused my response above on "soundstage" since that is what you seemed to say was your priority in making a judgement on an extraordinary lp recommendation. If you'd care to expand on that one point, we could focus more on our differences regarding the RO lp. |
...it seems (to me) that you're making short, general statements (confusing the main point you posted) and not responding fully to the point that you made, all the while, again, avoiding the main issue I had with your original post? Shew!!!
...I'm calming down now.. |
AC/DC "74 Jailbreak" (from the 12 or so lp box set several years ago. Blows AWAY the RO lp!
Is someone else going to "man-up" and join in? |
Qdrone: In the thread you referred to, the topic was more about different pressings of a particular lp.. You (seemed) to ask if I made any adjustments to my arm in making comparisons to the green label re-issue of "Beautiful Loser" vs. the original orange label copy. My response was no. ( I think all will agree that in making comparisons to different lps, (all other things being equal), that you shouldn't change anything (except VTA if the lps were thicker by comparison). In the case you mentioned, the lps were the same thickness so, any adjustment wouldn't have been a fair comparison!
Anyway, I agree that we should move on. I do appreciate the lively discussion. Thanks. |
Sorry... regarding the ET (2.5 arm optimized for high pressure), in my almost 30 years of experience with this arm, it is "key" that you really have it set up correctly, with an excellent/dry/ air source then and only then can one be confident in it's abilities on an ongoing basis. This is of coarse, my opinion. You do seem to make one think that the only difference between the ET and the other tonearm you are using is VTA. I find that to be misleading. I'm not sure if you've contributed to the (ET thread) or not. I think you should check it out.
A new recommendation:
Hot Tuna (S/T) "recorded live at the New Orleans House, Berkeley" (early black label pressing)
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One/I, could/will, make a point that with all of the differences in varying recordings by varying artists in varying venues with varying electronics/acoustics, in the analog or digital era that, it is a good thing that (in my system) all of these varying differences are laid out for me to hear. I'm really glad that the vast majority of my collection doesn't sound similar. This, (IMO), would not be a system/room that I could honestly make recommendations on for sonics or electronics or extraordinary lps. Peace! |
I too, apologize for "hijacking" this thread. It belongs to everyone. I felt that since I originated it, that I have a certain responsibility to "oversee it" to a degree.
I feel that this discussion was important in that, to me, it lets one see the difference between setting up one's system with a certain goal in mind that is either to do one of the following two things:
(A) Enjoy your record collection with primary goal being enjoying most recordings as much as possible disregarding the variances of differing recording venues, techniques, locations, live/studio, digital/analog, etc....or..
(B) Enjoy your record collection with the primary goal being listening to what's on the lp and being able to discern this for better or for worse.
If you agree with these two points, I think an appropriate question would be, which point makes the most sense in being able to evaluate and make a recommendation regarding sonics on a various recordings? This is the essence of what this hobby is all about, IMO. |
I'm pumped!
Mark Kozelek "Lost Verses Live"
Alan Parsons "A Turn Of a Friendly Card" (Japan)
Pinback "Autumn of the Seraphs"(a definite, runner up!)
John Fahey "America" |
Black Dub "S/T" 1st pressing. |
Whart: Thanks. Thanks a lot! |
This may be my last writing on the above issue here. I can hear a collective sigh of relief...(I get it)...I think the discussion I've had with Qdrone warrants a separate thread regarding something on the order of...
(1) how we've become so used to digital, we've forgotten how well recorded analog just blows digital away
(2) Re: (the above statement), this has been so engrained that we've set up our systems, altered our listening habits, and all the while changed our component selection priorities in order to suit inferior recordings
(3) let's take our heads out of the sand that the music industry has put there for us for 3 decades
One tell tale sign of the difference between a well recorded all analog lp and it's digital equal will be no matter high you turn the volume up, on the analog lp, you'll want more. You'll never, ever feel the need to cover your ears or take that lp off your platter!
I'm always thinking of the newbies to analog that are coming to this site wanting advice from us, the veterans of the analog era. I want to try and leave something substantial behind from my hobby that has and continues to bring me so much joy.
Another recommendation. This one is so well recorded and from the era of analog. While, in a perfect world, it should be the norm. Since we're having the above discussion, I feel compelled to recommend this one very highly. Wishbone Ash "No Smoke Without Fire". Mine is a MCA w/ light brown/tan label, w/ a darker brown circle close to the the outer edge. (I'll try and post a pic on my virtual system page). Wow! This record is unique in that it really features the bass guitar. You will be glad.
An interesting (to me) evaluation is:
Fleetwood Mac "Tango In The Night" vs their S/T MFSL lp.
Analog vs digital!
The TITN is clean & clear (my code phrase for digital), and it is, to me, more enjoyable than the Ric Ocasek lp (it has a complete soundstage) referenced above, still I can readily tell it's a digital recording that lacks warmth and soul. Their S/T lp is a whole different ballgame folks! Again, I can turn the volume up, up, up and never even think about changing the record. I just want more. The difference IS night & day friends. |
Whart: Point taken! And I'd have to agree with you on this criteria:
(1) (The lp you referenced is not the norm!) ( I admit I haven't heard it, but I did start a thread on this particular lp because I felt that given the person (Steven Wilson) sought out by the original artist, as their choice for taking over such a seminal lp (and he's been asked to do King Crimson's as well, I was VERY interested in it!
(2) I think you'd agree that there are always instances in which digital done smartly will be enjoyable but these instances are rare and far between.
Another thorny issue:. Porcupine Tree... while these lps are very well recorded and very consistently recorded, I can tell they are not analog in analog's true sense. There, I said it! (I own all of them except for the "live" lp). |
...my last statement brings up another important point for those new to analog. Be thoughtful regarding (your own insight) when reading posts made here. Also, be willing to do your due diligence in (your) task in making an effort to reach your own conclusions! There is nothing more important than your own, first hand, experience. |
Whart: The artists I referenced earlier in this thread are representative of the point you just made. These are lps made in the digital era. While they are enjoyable, they still don't pass "my ultimate test" that I referenced earlier. I've said in a different post, last year, that Beck consistently makes analog sounding records. They still don't pass my simple test. |
Whart: A perfect example of your post may be The Beatles "Let It Be...NAKED". I rest my case. |
Qdrone: As you know, being an ET owner, (by the way, would you reveal which version you own please? I ask this for the following reason, the sonic return between the standard ET 2 vs. the ET 2.5 is enormous!), we have a scale with various visual increments. This is one way to eyeball VTA. I use this in conjunction with my precise set-up of my cartridge (in the "neutral zone" of the arc block adjustment range) for 180gr. lps. (This is the middle of the range I find best in my collection that mostly includes 120 through 200 gr. pressings). In this way of set-up. I can also visually align the top of my cartridge body with the top of my record weight. This allows two different but precise alternatives in which to gauge proper VTA. Also, since we have an (arc block) that by it's nature, tells one that there will be a fluctuation of "overhang" when adjusting VTA, that it is essential one set up the optimum way in my prescribed neutral zone to minimize this "overhang change" when going from lps of varying thicknesses.
The way you just described in which you adjust VTA is obviously from a different arm. I think you're getting off track from our original issue again.. this time it is with the ET arm. (The last time you moved the subject (Ric Ocasek lp) out of the equation to the Bowie.
My apologies again... for this I offer Jack Johnson "In Between Dreams" 1st pressing.
|
... all the while... The main factor considering all of the above is that one has the center of the spindle aligned with the center of the lp when all of the above is achieved.
Qdrone, can you say that you've achieved this in addition to the points laid out above? Thank you. |
While looking at recent threads, I was inspired!
Bob Marley "Exodus" MFSL
Bests "Natty Dread" Speakers Corner by a mile!
Qdrone: While you list your components, you don't list any pictures or any tangible way for us to examine your set-up. I'm glad you've listed an Alan Parsons lp here. I'm curious as to how you justify that lp and your recommendation of that lp vs. the Ric Ocasek lp? On this particular thread, I'd think you should be able to, instantly, give us your interpretations of any substantial difference, (if any).
In fact the MFSL Bob Marley "Exodus" is going on my list! |
I can bring out lp after lp that bests, in every way the RO lp without batting one eye! And, all the while, these/those lps don't meet my criteria for Extraordinary Lps On Vinyl!
IMO, it would have been best to admit that you were wrong or at least, misspoke.
Right now, I'm listening to Thin Lizzy "Jailbreak". Totally beats the RO in EVERY way! |
Qdrone: IMO, by your own standards, at least 50% of my collection will meet your criteria for Extraordinary Recordings On Vinyl.
Tell us all, after you've answered the questions above, how you still make your case? |
.. by the way... All of this was instigated by you. Yet, you've not provided us with your ET configuration, pictures of your setup., etc...
Then, you have slickly changed the subject to other things, as noted above, So, Qdrone, when are YOU going to become the one we should look to for guidance on these issues? I say, the time is right now. I think your next post should be, at the very least, your current system configuration, regarding your ET, (which ET you have, plus your history with that ET configuration)... then and only then, will we try to accept your "history" regarding that arm! |
The "Bill Clinton" defense: doesn't really work anymore.
"I DID NOT HAVE "audio-sex" with that TT!" |
