Experiencing Rowland M925 4-chassis reference amps
To Noble100... Hi Tim, concerning amp colors, I checked with Brandon Kelley at the Rowland factory yesterday about colors for M925 amps: seems to be a little like the old Ford Model T... Any faceplate color is available, provided it is... 'platinum'... Which is actually natural polished Aluminum color. I suspect that the golden color of the units in the 2012 pics you have seen were either one-ofs, or photograpic artifact. Saluti, G. |
All, yesterday, at approximately 430 hours of playing time plus 60 hours of low-level operations, the M925 amps were showing signs of musical grandness as well as of some residual break-in growing pains. The Dvorak 9th Symphony 2nd movement under Bernstein and the Israel Philharmonic is magnificent: size and clarity of staging, imaging, speed and fullness of macro transients, authority . The lower brass fanfares are not only powerful and harmonically complex, but are heard inserted into the living context of the 3D stage, rather than a musical object without spatial references I know I said this before, but the reality is that these effects keep growing in perceived size, complexity, and sheer emotional impact. The massed upper and mid strings are not only textured and sweet, but resolve into the bowings of the individual fiddles and violas. The flutes have an ethereal beauty, while the English horn keeps enhancing the multilayered earthiness to its melancholic sound. The chamber-like section toward the end of the movement is assuming delicacy, detail, harmonic richness, and a filigreed transparency that are enchanting.... However, we may have a little temporary break-in tantrum The mid bass has lost a bit of power and resolution, while manifesting some signs of wooliness... I could hear the anomaly in the introduction of the Dvorak sextet with double bass, in the plucked electric bass of Diana Kralls Temptation, and in a slight uncertainty of the string bass line of Dvoraks 9th, particularly the plucked sections... The bass anomaly could also be heard in a certain lack of vicerality in the midbass of Bach's toccata, adagio and Fugue in C minor performed by Wolfgang Rubsam on Naxos redbook. Interestingly, the minor emotional disorder does not affect the deep bass: the lowest bass notes in the adagio movement remained visceral, pitched, and harmonically textured. Today I powered down the whole system including amps, and disconnected all components from the AC for four hours, so to recycle charge on all capacitors, transformers, etc . I will log my next report at the end of the month, close to the 600 hours mark. Saluti, Guido |
Hi Tim, my amps are not gold color... Front and top are silver, while the side panels with their cooling vents are black. As you know, I have become a fan of amps that are on the lighter side... So, currently, my only complaint is that M925 chassis are total bears to lift, particularly the audio units... On the other hand, I fully knew what I was getting into, so my gripe is pointless, sterile, and moot to boot *grins!* Actually I live in Austin rather than in Houston.... Although,the State capital is not much cooler than its South Eastern neighbour. The good news is that I have heard that M925 may run comfortably cooler than M625 and M725, so I hope to be able to break them in throughout the summer months without turning my loft into a Sweedish sauna... We'll see! Needless to say, I still remain intrigued to no end about the musical potential of new technology amps, including Veritas and Mola-Mola. Saluti, Guido |
Hi David, I do not pretend to be an expert on active PFC, so I am sending you to the Rowland Knowledge base for a few articles on the subject. Strictly speaking the articles deal with the PC-1 external rectifier... But its operating principles apply also to the internal PFC modules used in a number of Rowland amps driven by SMPS, including M625, M725, M825, and M925. http://jeffrowlandgroup.com/kb/categories.php?categoryid=23 The interesting thing is that PFC rectification is compatible with external power conditioners, provided the conditioner is not power limiting.... I have used the now withdrawn Rowland M312 amp -- which is equipped with an internal PFC module, plugged into a Shunyata Triton, and results were marvellous. |
This afternoon the M925s yielded "first sound". Even more than encouraging, it was a bit of an OMG experience. I managed to connect M925 without breaking anything and without shorts... I was expecting the usual shrieky time, but... M925 is so musically revealing after 30 minutes of playing that it is spooky... By the way, this has been the First time that my better half has made unbidden positive comments on a component right out of the box... Less than 10 minutes into playing time actually. Whats astonishing is that, factoring in very minor early oddities, M925 already convey a grandness, poetry, and realism that I have never heard from my own system. I fully expect for musical beauty and detail to wax and wain for quite a spell, but for the time being, the cadenza in the introduction to the Dvorak string sextet with double bass Op. 48, is almost free of artifacts, which is something I have not yet experienced with a brand new amp. Likewise, my other test piece by Antonin Dvorak "In the Old Castle", played by Inna Poroscina on what is likely a Bosendorfer Imperial grand, is already showing signs of pedal and felt sounds, which is quite unusual on a brand new amp. But perhaps the most encouraging sign is that I felt just like sinking into my couch and immerse myself into the music... Will this last? We will see as the break-in enfolds! G. |
Lastly, I have been away for one full week.... Break-in has resumed tonight at the 600 hours mark... The sound has an eary beauty even with the amps stone cold after 9 days completely disconnected from the AC. I listened to a couple movements from Mahler's 4th Symphony conducted by Bernard Heitink... Totally enchanting... Even though from my old NAD FM tuner, the bass was foundational and pitched as clear as a bell. Guido |
At 20 hours, the stage has a nice depth to it.... In addition, resolution is intriguing. Yes, I am discovering some of my CDs anew... if sometimes in unusual ways: I have a set of Bach Well Tempered Klavier played on harpsichord; and I had never realized that there some cute errors in the performance... Not wrong notes per se, but errors in timing between the two hands, and some rhythmic imperfections. Until M925, such minutiae were blended into the background. I had a little "excitement" yesterday: I had a friend over to help me with the chassis stacking operation... Yes, it is a breeze with two people. However, when I powered up the right amp, the right speaker started to emit a bizarre multi-frequency burr, as if I had a mad cicada in rut inside the coaxial flat driver... And no music signal could be heard at all from that side... Disconnected and reconnected the whole amp to no avail.... The factory assured me that I must have done something wrong with my connections. True enough: I eventually discovered that the source selector switch was inadvertently flipped upward to RCA mode. Flipped the switch back to XLR balanced and reconnected... The amp started to work again without further ado. But with hour 21, the amps have decided it is high time to go into a bit of break-in funk. Image is more recessed and has lost some airiness. The voice of Mezzo-soprano D'Althan in Exulta Filia by Claudio Monteverdy has developed a bit of a steely burr on the sostenuti at end of phrases, where the incompetent recording engineer is fooling around with artificial reverb to enhance the echo of the small church used as recording venue. Now I have inserted a tuner into the system, so to exercise the amps 24/7... Nighttime the amps will be served a diet of FM interstation hash.... Extremely healthy and highly decongesting! G. |
At about 100 hours of operations, and an additional 45 hours on standby with the linestage feeding FM hash from the tuner into the M925's input transformers, here is a very brief update Thankfully the rather jarring steeliness in the resonance notes that I earlier reported on the young mezzo soprano Tania DAlthann in Monteverdis Exulta Filia Sion (Girlande Sacre, Ghirlande Profane Arts Music redbook) has been already reabsorbed by about 75%... She does sound significantly more natural than a few days ago. The other side of the coin is that minor blemishes in her intonation, breathing, and rythmic technique, which I had not noticed with my previous amps, are gradually coming to light with M925's low level resolution. G. |
Hahaha David... You may have a point! To put things into perspective, we are talking here about a very young Tania D'Althann, probably in her late teens or early twenties, on a work with melodic embelishments which are devilishly difficult to render with precision... I do not fault D'Althann for the minor issues... Nor of course the M925 for evidencing them. My only beef is with the recording engineer who took undue liberties with his console, and monkeied around with the reverb pot, just to enhance what D'althann was already masterful on her very own. If I remember correctly, the CD is copyrighted 1982, but might have been recorded as early as 1978, perhaps a time where recording engineering flights of fancy would be masked by most sound reproduction equipment. It is interesting that the engineer appears to have lavished his disruptive attentions on D'Althann, because the voice of countertenor Giuseppe Zambon, who uses the same approximate voice range for his selections, is unaffected, and always sounds completely natural. On a happier note, at approximately 120 hours, the sweetening of the residual steeliness is detectable only in traces, while the singer's image has continued to solidify. Saluti, G. |
At 150 hours of operation plus 50 hours on low level standby The undue ringing (I cannot call it steeliness any longer) is barely detectable on a couple of notes only . E.g. The closing note of the motet . Images are continuing the fleshing-out process, and traces of acoustics from the recording venue (a small Church in Venice( is starting to emerge. The portatif organ used for accompaniment is impressively crisp and deep . The overall effect is starting to be musically immersive and rather wonderful (quoted words of my better half, who tends to be merciless when commenting about the sound of my system). On an non auditory matter, the amps take 12 to 24 hours to stabilize thermically, and so become warm to the touch . During hot days they feel rather toasty, if not as much as M725 or M625. Temperature seems completely uniform on each chassis... But power supply chassis are noticeably warmer than audio chassis. Saluti, Guido |
A non-musical tidbit.... * Unlike M725 and M625, which have a mild propensity to emitting audible rasberries -- of a very high-end cultivar of course -- through the speakers, whenever power is cycled on/off, M925 are extremely quiet. When the front-mounted momentary contact switch is operated to turn the amps to full power, I can hear only the internal "Klump" from a relay switch, folloed after a second or two by an almost inaudible "tick" from the speakers. When the power button is operate again to place the amps back on standby, there is no noise at all from the speakers or from the amps. Saluti, G. |
Time for a few updates
First of all, I have been asked about the audible difference between the M725 330W monoblocks that have been my reference amp for one year, and my new M925
As much as I love M725, M925 are already generating sound that is in an entirely different league First of all the obvious . That is the M925s sheer power, which lets them generate life-sized stage and images Yes, significantly larger and more solid than M725, with incredible ease and authority. There is a sense of space, air, and depth that comfortably exceeds M725, and any other amp that has been in my system until now. M925 never breaks a sweat on high dynamic transients It is in that totally effortless . There is a harmonic coherence and exposure of fine detail that is very highly resolving, but is musical rather than being hiFiish . Because it makes music emotional, and never analytic. In addition, the bass has a depth and musical purity to die for. Neither fat overhang nor thuddy behavior here. Of course, break in is very much still in progress, and we are not out of the woods by any stretch... At 250 hours, I listened to Christiane Jaccottet on harpsichord playing Bachs Well tempered Klavier there was a very faint zing added to the upper harmonics of the harpsichord But this sounded more curious than annoying . Very different from the typical harshness found in many new amps. What I find astonishing is that whatever fabulous behavior I hear from M925 at any particular session, it is usually exceeded by what the amps demonstrate after another few days . On a more positive note, I played the Rachmaninov Symphonic Dances in the version for two pianos A performance by EMANUEL AX and YEFIM BRONFMAN on SONY redbook, recorded in 1999 in 24-bits. Several things were remarkable, and already let me confirm that I comfortably prefer the total performance of M925 over every other amp I have had in my system, including Rowland M725 monos The apparent total coherence and extension of the M925 frequency bandwidth, from the bottom notes to the top octaves, without any perceivable suckouts or fatness/overhangs. The fine exposure of harmonic information from the high treble to the lowest bass. The vast size/proportions of stage and instrument images, that where completely congruent in the three dimensions with real life grand pianos in a recording studio, with the front of the instrument image approximately coinciding with the front of the speakers, and the left/right edges of the stage merging into the side walls of the room (speakers are 11 feet apart, while the room is 18 feet wide) This among other things means that M925 is thankfully not a forward sounding amp, but is also far from being recessed. Tremendous macro authority and dynamics, perfectly consistent with the illusion of a pair of real life concert grands in the room, from whispering pianissimo (ppp) to fortissimo (fff) without any clipping or other signs of strain. Subtlety of microdynamics, which exposes the sudden partial dampening of a piano string when a key is half-lifted and so, lowers the felt damper to graze the string. The instant speed of macro and micro transient response at all frequencies. There is no euphonic caramelization of transients, neither there is artificial emphasis of leading edges. The sense of emotion and musical immersion . The listening experience is relaxed . I sink into the listening couch and enjoy . I do not feel the need to balance on the edge of the seat ready to bolt with audiophilic anxiety. A minor milestone tonight... I have just clocked 302 hours of playing time, and an additional 60 hours of low power ops. I decided to check again the Christiane Jaccottet recording of Bach's Well Tempered Klavier... Disk 2 of 4, to be specific.... The trace burr or overpressure in the high treble region of the harmonics that I reported around the 250 hours mark has disappeared completely. If I did not know better, I would be tempted to say that the amps have reached maturity, as the sound of the harpsichord was magnificent and musically involving... But I know I should expect even further opening up... probably intermixed by a few more episodes of minor "bad attitude". Saluti, Guido |
Hi Jjy, admittedly, my M725s are wonderful amps, but what I heard tonight on M925 at the 576 hour mark, is simply not possible on M725. I was postponing any serious listening to tomorrow morning (Saturday), so I decided to turn on my old NAD tuner and listen to Film Score Focus on KMFA Austin instead... Today the program was dedicated to "travelling to the Moon" or something to that effect.... The track "The launch" -- by James Horner I believe -- from the 1995 film "Apollo 13" blew my mind for the intimate depth and power of the bass.... Not a bloated swelling thing, but a tidal depth at the very bottom of the audible range.... Something that the triple 9" bass drivers of the Muzik speakers were transmitting to my chest and feet perhaps more than to my ears. The entire image: bass, and mostly synthetic orchestra occupied a solid continuum from beyond the left wall to beyond the right wall. Mesmerizing is perhaps the best way to describe it... Sure, there was authority and all of that, but.... An authority that just "exists" without the need of questioning its right to be... An authority that works for the music material without attracting attention to itself.... Just allowing the material to flow in a totally integrated way, because.... It is in the nature of music to achieve that... And in the nature of the amps to deliver the effortless magic. I realize that this is rambling and all, but tonight I do not have a better way to express it. Tomorrow I will play once again my usual test tracks... But I have a strong hunch that the bass malaise that I reported last week has gone away. By the way JJY, do you own Rowland M725 monos? Best, Guido |
Yes PSAG, you are correct... I compared M201 and M501 in the same systems a couple of times... M501 have a sonic signature very similar to M201.... With more grunt, dynamics, stage/imaging size, but no greater microdynamics, harmonic content or treble detail. M3xx series are different creatures instead... But if you feed M201 through a PC-1 PFC rectifier box, you should obtain a good portion of the audible refinements of the M312. G. |
All, I do not have direct experience with Model 9 variants, so my opinion is conjectural. Based on what seemes to be the sonic trend in Rowland amps since Model 7 through M825/M925, I suspect that Model 9 variants are somewhat warmer and midrange-centered than M925, with a little less resolution and clarity of staging/imaging. I further conjecture that they may be a little nmore prone to mid-treble distortions... But, as I said, this is somewhat conjectural. Regarding M825, the device is now shipping, with a list price of $32K. |
Hi Denon1, I will call the factory next week and will ask about Continuum S2 status. meantime, on pure conjecture, based on the fact that Rowland has selected a new more advanced supplier of power conversion modules for Continuum S2 (Pascal), and that Rowland changes component parts only if warranted by more desirable audible performance or reliability, I suspect that the new S2 is likely to sound sweeter than C500. CS2 also uses the circuit of the new Capri S2 as linestage (designed in partnership with Holm Acoustics), and is compatible with the new DAC card designed for Capri S2. Continuum S2 will also be compatible with the external PC-1 PFC-based rectifier. Saluti, Guido |
Hi French-fries, Concerning Model 9 variants versus M825 and M925, I have exchanged a couple of emails with Ron Gaston, proprietor of Black Forest Audio in well, you guessed it... Black Forest (CO), and long time Rowland dealer and friend. Ron has extensive experienced with every Rowland amp since the original M7. Here is what Ron wrote on this subject: "The Model 8/9 amps are big, rich and earthy in presentation. They are not, however, a match for the 825/925 in soundstage, detail or palpable realism. They seem downright sluggish in comparison. I believe the 625 to be superior in nearly every respect to these older, very great amps." Ron further explains that Only in the bottom end authority M9 variants can outperform the little M625. Just in case you asked, Ron's house was not affected by the recent fire... Ron, family, and his gear are doing fine. Guido |
Hi French_Fries, the primary duty of my tuner is to feed FM interstation pink noise hash to the amps. Secondary duty is to let me enjoy the musicology lectures of Bill McLaughlyn... Quality of sound is suboptimal for the rest of the system. But I still enjoy the experience. As of today, I have no immediate plans to replace the little NAD tuner... But who know what the future may bring! Guido |
I did enjoy the experience immensely French_Fries.... It was in fact remarkable that the bass was so clear, and the voicing of various instruments so distinct, in spite of the ancient vintage of the darling tuner. On the other hand, I am not implying that what I heard was close to what the system is capable of when playing back a top notch CD on the X-01 player. I should like to point out that with amps that graced my system prior to M925, results on tuner were less satisfying. I am not an expert in tuners at all, so I really cannot make any meaningful recommendations. |
All, my apologies for the long absence from updating you on M925 progress. Today at 1,780 hours of operations per my Excel break-in tracker, progress has been steadily significant since the 600 hours mark discussed earlier in this thread. I use the term steadily significant on purpose, because I am not sure that the progressive refinement of this amazing amplifier has abated yet. Reality is that, starting about the 700 hours mark, I have been tempted several times to declare the amplifier fully broken-in After all, when one perceives no constriction anywhere, frequency and harmonic coverage is a linearly sculptured affair throughout the spectrum, treble intermodulation of multi-part violas and violins has vanished, your mind freely zooms in and out of musical detail, Authority as well as micro/macro dynamics have established such a right to exist that you do not even perceive them as isolated factors in the musical whole And most of all, you simply get lost in the music without reservations Well, you would thing the creature is just about ready and stabilized. Yet, things have continued to refine until now . Perhaps we could claim that by the 1,100-hour mark the amp is 100% broken in I would have assigned this milestone to the 1,000 hours mark, except that at about 1050 hours I experienced the very last performance oscillation, where M925 showed a slight warmishment for just 4 to 6 hours, after which things have returned to normality without further flexions. To my surprise, all audible parameters have continue to refine after this point, leaving me quite befuddled about how much immersive music the whole rig, starting from Rowland Criterion and ending with the Vienna Muzik speakers, is increasingly able to extract from my old Esoteric X-01 player. Will things continue to evolve even further? I have no idea yet... But will et you know. if anyone were starting to wonder if my couple of months of silence meant that perhaps yours truly were having second thoughts, falling out of love, or succumbing to the pangs of obsessive second guessing, or simply getting a little case of audiophilic wandering eye (or is it wandering ear?) Nothing could be further from reality Rowland M925 has firmly established itself as my absolute reference amplifier by far. Saluti, G. |
Hi FrenchFries, I am delighted that you are experiencing long term nirvanic persistancy... Very rare among us sufferers of Degenerative Audiophilic Chorea (DAC). At my end, the entire lovely review loom of Aural Symphonics wires had to go back to the manufacturer... While I am pleasantly surprised about how well M925 are doing fed by simple stock power cords, I am looking for alternatives that will bring their performance to the next level... I will be scouting RMAF for likely candidates. Guido |
Thank you Psag. My intent on this thread was not to "rave" nor to mislead, but to share my own experience with these amps in as much detail as possible throughout a break-in process that was replete with ups and downs. At the end of the process I do adore these devices... But I will never say that they are "the best", or that they are "better" than anything else... I am prepared only to tell you what they do for me... What is in my ears correct, and the reasons why.... And if I hear a flaw, you will read about that as well. Since the 1050 hours mark I have not heard obvious defects. I have a lot of respect for some of the brands you mention, as well as some of the brands you have not mentioned, like ARC and VTL. AT RMAF I am looking forward to have my first listen to Solution, and hopefully to the Boulder 3000 series, and a few others. If I have the opportunity of listening to M925 or M825 in the same context with other top shelf amps, and the exhibitor or owner manages to convince me that the amps are completely broken-in, I will talk about the differences that I perceive. G. |
Hi Psag, I appreciate your misgivings. I heard M201 monos a few times... Driving Maggie 1.6, Maggie 3.6, Vienna Mahler, Vienna Beethoven Grands... In all cases, M201s ran out of steam at the first indication of dynamic excitement... When they did not run out of steam, the sound was clean, sweet, and transparent, but not highly emotionally involving. M201 were not representing the state of the art in class D amplification at the time of their release. They were based on mid-power ICEpower 500ASP modules, and were implemented as an entry level product. They had neither the power to drive demanding speakers like M501s, nor the power supply / PFC refinements of all the old M3xx series. By extension, they are not indicative of the behavior of any current products, from M525 upwards. G |
"Even if you have to have "the best", i would hope that sound and reliability would be the primary criteria to determine the choices made." Thank you French_fries for pointing this out. Yes, I choose my gear based on my own subjective perception of extremely high musical/sonic performance, as well as of manufacturer's track record of high reliability. As you know, I am blind. As such, esthetics is for me of secondary relevance only, and not a purchasing criterion per se... It remains however, a charming bonus not to be despised or otherwise shunned out of facile masculine pride. Bottomline, I judge the tree by its fruits, not by its roots... But I think you heard this paraphrase of Stravinsky's Poetics of Music from me before. G. |
Hi Fredmiu, while I loved the M725 monos, the performance of M925 is simply of a totally different caliber. M925 combines a an immersive transparency in its harmonic density, an authority that seems to have a natural right to its existance, rather than forcing itself on the user. Yes, M925 has loads more authority, transparency, and detail than M725.... But not in a sterile manner that means detail for sake of audible acrobatics... It is a presentation that gives you much deeper insight into the music: both from the point of view of the music composition/song, and of the depth of the performance/interpretation. This is a very long topic... PM me if you would like to chat offline. Guido |
Sorry Bernard, the generalized class X versus class Y discussion is meaningless... In practice, no class is inherently superior to any other class... There are amps ranging from superb down to mediocre in every class... The only thing which matters is the individual design, and how its sound is in synergy with your particular taste in sound and in music. The only SS brand in a similar price level as M825 and M925 that peaked my interest at RMAF 2013 was Solution. Guido |
Fred, the problem with 3XX series is that it covers two generations of amps.... Results differed greatly, depending on model and internal revision... * I found the original M302 stereo to be sweet sounding, but lacked ultimate emotionality and dynamics. * M312 stereo was an almost complete internal redesign... And the difference was telling... Much denser harmonic content, finer macro/micro dynamics.... Result: very involving/emotional to my ears. M301 monos... Really this was two amp models instead of one.... The first series -- I believe up to serial number 68 or so, was based on internals similar to M302, and showed the same shortcomings. Subsequent serial numbers were based on M312 design, and shared many of M312 sonic attributes... I still preferred M312 though. Having said this, M725 greatly surpasses M312 and late M301s... While M925 is simply in a totally different league for all audible parameters. I have not heard M825 yet... But my understanding is that it might sound extremely similar to M925, but has half the power supply capacity. I will hear M825 at RMAF next week. |
All, I have received the list of RMAF suites where we will be able to listen to Rowland amps coming Friday through Sunday: The M825 stereo amp, Aeris DAC, and the Capri Series 2 preamp will be playing in suite 8032 with Joseph Audio speakers and Cardas Clear wires. M825 and Aeris will also be heard with Lawrence Audio in Tower Room 1122. The Continuum S2 integrated will be making music in public for the first time in Tower 2001 (the Rowland suite), together with Aeris If I remember things correctly, they may be using Cardas Clear and Clear Beyond wires, and Raidho speakers. Other Rowland products will be mostly on static display in room 2000 and 2001: including M925 monos, M725 monos, M625 stereo, M525 bridgeable, Corus linestage, and Capri S2 pre. Saluti, Guido |
Fredmiu and all, apologies for my oblique posts last week.... A couple of days ago, JRDG has finally posted a partial list of M925 and M825 technical features and specifications... Bottomline is that yes, you are correct. In the output phase of these amps there is a circuit running in class D... based on the fabulous Ncore NC1200 technology to be more specific. http://jeffrowlandgroup.com/kb/categories.php?categoryid=212 http://jeffrowlandgroup.com/kb/categories.php?categoryid=213 Note that The amps do not utilize the small companion Ncore SMPS made by Hypex... Power management is designed by Rowland specifically for these amps... a PFC rectifier feeds high voltage DC into a large 2500W SMPs... Seems that the resulting low voltage DC is then cleaned up further by 4-pole capacitors. Signal imputs are transformer-coupled with large Lundahl transformers... There is a little bit more info on the links above, but not quite as much, or as clear as I would like to see. I will try to gather more details from Jeff, Lucien, and Brandon while I am at RMAF. Saluti, Guido |
All, here are my assorted Rowland-related ramblings from RMAF 2013
. M925 was on static display in room 2000. Conversely, M825 was making music in two suites. In room 8032, M825 + Aeris + Capri S2 were driving a pair of Joseph Audio speakers The system was connected by a complete loom of Cardas Clear / Clear Beyond wires, ranging from PCs to speaker wires The total result was enchanting: I visited repeatedly to listen to more music. As the equipment had time to settle, the musicality became more and more organic for lack of a better word. In 1122, M825 drove a pair of Lawrence Audio speakers Apparently, the speakers were fresh off the Lawrence factory floor and showed it . On Friday afternoon, total synergy was still less than perfect, as the unbroken-in speakers were generating a fair amount of artifacts in the treble region. By the end of the show, I was told that the sound was a lot more organic, but I had to leave by 4:00 PM on Sunday, so I did not have the time to visit the suite for a second listen. In room 2001, Rowland showcased the brand new Continuum S2. Fed by the Aeris DAC, the new integrated drove a pair of Raidho D1 monitors. Initially the D1s were not perfectly setup, and so showed their propensity of overwhelming room acoustics with midbass By Saturday afternoon, the positioning of the speakers had been optimized and the result was quite delicious for its musical purity and clean authority. If Continuum S2 had been hidden away from sight, no one could have guessed that D1s were driven by a integrated targeting the market under $10K. While the chassis of S2 is virtually undistinguishable from its Continuum 250 and 500 predecessors, except for the display, S2s finely textured sound is miles above from what I remember possible with the performance of the original models. Interestingly, Continuum S2 could be further enhanced by the PC-1 PFC-based rectifier However, No PC-1 was being used Hope to hear an A/B comparison at some future time. I was totally delighted by the Nordost suite in Blanca Peak: Expansive, rich, and emotionally involving was the sound, and enveloping was the music The room featured a complete loom of new Valhalla 2 wires, with a complement of Titanium and Bronze Sort Kones supporting Rowland electronics, while twin quartets of brand new Bronze/Aluminum adjustable Sort footers coupled Audio Physics Virgo 2(?) speakers to the floor . After three long visits, Nordost V2 wires and Sort Kones are in my very short list of highly desirable and musically goldilockian reference candidates to connect and support my system. The Sort footers are designed specifically for enhancing heavy speakers, and not to support electronics. Under the Audio Physics, they were clear contributors to the overall magic of the Nordost room. Admittedly, I would love to gage the effectiveness of these footers under my own speakers Unfortunately, the positioning of the Vienna Die muzik with their swivel-heads is a total bear to optimize, thus replacing the Muziks factory footers with the worthy Nordost Sorts would force a new detailed round of split-raking optimization Not something that I would relish doing without professional assistance. Hmm Now that I think about it, I just got a wild idea Experimenting with a double trio of hefty Sort Footers under my 160Lbs M925s may be an intriguing proposition if it were only feasible Mumbledee mumbledee.. Saluti, Guido |
All, besides waiting for Aeris, my next crucial step, which might take up to one year to finalize, will be to equip the system with a loom of wires, and possibly power management products, that maximize synergy with my speakers and Rowland electronics... and meet my goldilockian preference for evenly textured musicality and broad frequency coverage. Based on my RMAF 2013 visit, and on prior experiments, I have narrowed my short list down to three fantastic product lines, which all bear further examination, listed below in totally random order... * Nordost Valhalla 2 -- What a stunning surprise... In olden days I sometimes felt that the original Valhallas were a smidgin to slender and trebly inclined... But the new series that I auditioned in Blanca Peak is magnificently harmonically texttured, and is an incredible imager/stager, while maintaining the broad frequency extension that the Nordost Valhalla line is well known for. * Cardas Clear and Clear Beyond -- performed magnificently musical and resolving in all Rowland-based system that I heard at the show; * Shunyata Z-Tron Anaconda and Pythons -- A long time love that is still going strong... I experienced their synergy with Rowland and Die Muzik in my own system a couple of years ago.. No reason to believe that I would love Shunyata products any less today. I am positive that any of the three series above would make for heavenly system-wide looms in their own special way... If you have experienced any of these products, do let me know your observations, comparative or not as they may be. Saluti, Guido |
Excellent choice Krell888... While M725 remains an exceedingly fine monoblock amplifier, I found M825 to outperform it.... More revealing than M725, and more musical at the same time.... And I fully expect a single M825 to deliver a larger stage and more authority than an M725 monoblock pair... M725 delivers 330W/8 with a 1200W DC power supply on each chassis... The M825 stereo delivers 400W/8 and 750W/4, and shares a 2500W DC supply for the two channels. There is also a direct growth path in M825 without loosing your investment... You will be able to add a second M825 chassis at a later time for even greater authority... A toggle switch in the back of M825 ties the left and right channels... This means that the two NCore NC1200 modules, would be processing the same input signal... You would connect one M825 output channel to the lower binding posts of an Amati Anniversario, and the other output channel to the upper binding posts of the same speaker. You would then connect the second M825 the same way to the other speaker. Best, Guido |
Excellent questions Bernard, let me try to address them
You are correct about the inherent sonic/musical limitations of old amplifiers based on the past generation of ICEpower modules. Without a lot of work from the amp designers, ICEpower ASP series modules invariably yielded sterility. NCore NC1200, and a few other new generation modules, are completely different creatures. In my own experience, even simple NCore NC1200 implementations, such as the Merrill Veritas that I have reviewed for PFO at http://positive-feedback.com/Issue68/merrill_audio.htm exhibit a degree of musicality and control of intermodulation distortion which is rare in amplifiers of any technology. I have listened to M825 at some length at RMAF 2014 over three days. I used my standard test CD that I have been using for all auditions during the last 7 or so years Grand piano; string sextet with double bass; Diana Krall with her band; Symphonic; vocal ensamble + sax in a cathedral, Anne Sophie Mutter on violin with orchestra . There was no audible trace of any harshness in the treble, which would have been the tell-tale sign of intermodulation sidebands. Neither multipart treble sostenutos of high strings, woodwinds, high brass, or fff transients showed any sign of ever breaking apart . There was never any hardness nor shrillness, just exposed harmonic complexity. Compared to M925, I could not detect any M825 degradation of staging and images, which would have been the sign of cross-talk leaks. You are correct If your Amati speakers are not bi-wirable, part of the benefit of adding a second M825 unit might be lessened. I have owned M625, M725, and M925 I comfortably prefer M925 over M725 for every conceivable audible parameter. Conversely, I found M725 to be somewhat closer to M625, although I still prefer M725 over M625. The difference in frequency response between M725 and M825/M925 has no bearing on any audible parameters of music reproduction . The sonic/musical advantage goes to M825/M925 by a significant amount. Traditionally, amplifiers with very high damping factor have shown a propensity of generating hard cardboardy bass . Not so NCore based amps The bass resolution of M825 and 925 is controlled in the sense that it has no wooliness or pillowing, but it is deep, correctly fast, and filled with harmonics starting at the fundamental . Do not be concerned about M825s high damping factor. Class D designs do continue to evolve, and so do other class of operation . However, while class A and A/B designs, with some exceptions, seem to be evolving relatively slowly, The underlying technology in some class D amplifiers have recently performed a quantum leap in inherent musical performance Of course, to experience the absolute magic they are capable of, one needs to have the patience to go through a lengthy break-in process, as I have outlined earlier on this thread. Bottomline.... M825 and M925 are phenomenal amps in the absolute sense... , Hope this helps... Let me know if you have more questions, Guido |
Hi Bernard, here are the reasons why the cooling blocks of M825 and M925 look the way they do.... * The semi-enclosed Venturi chimneys of these cooling units are more efficient than traditional blade designs in accellerating upwards air-flow and dissipating heat. * The Venturi chimney design was first introduced in the M10 and M12 amps, and then re-introduced and finalized in the M625, with the prismatic faceplate first introduced in mid-production M312. Since M625, higher end Rowland amps have maintained the same consistent design. * M825 generates more heat than you might imagine... Only NCore modules in M825 operate in class D, and by themselves generate more heat than old ICEpower modules used in old M3xx series... And there are two NCore modules inside M825. The rest of the circuit does generate larger amounts of heat than the power conversion modules, particularly in the power supply unit, where the SMPS and the PFC unit are quite massive... My music loft reacheas a normal temperature of 86F under air conditioning during summer months: in this season, the Venturi chimneys are a real blessing, because the unit becomes uniformly toasty to the touch... The uniform heat distribution ensures that internal components do not overheat, and so long term reliability is maximized. * Of course, the total designs does contribute to pride of ownership... Doesn't it *grins!* G |
Hi Bernard, I spoke to Lucien at Rowland this morning... Your dealer is in close contact with the factory... They are working together to solve your issue ASAP. Concerning your other questions... The audible performance of a brand new M825 is not faintly close to what the amp will be doing once it has completed break-in of 1200 to 1500 hours... I fully expect that a brand new M825 would not sound as sweet as a well broken in M625.... But before long, will leave the lovely M625 in the proverbial musical dust. As you can read in my M925 break-in log in this thread... Patience is golden. Switch mode power supplies (SMPS) range from 25 cents parts for charging cheap phones to sophisticated and highly reliable units developed for aerospace and mission-critical applications... Rowland uses these highly reliable and expensive SMPS in its amps... Fact is that Rowland has been using exclusively high grade SMPS for the last 15 years because of their superior sonic performance and high reliability, and failures in Rowland SMPS are extremely rare. Guido |
Hi Bernard, glad that your M825 replacement has arrived.... Its sound will keep evolving for a couple of months. You can play 24/7 as the unit generates very moderate heat. When you are not listening to music, you can feed it interstation white noise from an FM tuner. Expect that, particularly during the first few hundred hours, you might experience a few sonic ups and downs.... This is normal.... But overall, the performance curve will point very much upwards. Do keep us posted, Guido |
Yes, my beloved Rowland M925 monoblocks have been making fantastic music without a glitch since May 2013... For the last few years, I have been feedin M925 directly from an Rowland Aeris DAC,this powered by the Rowland PSU ultra-capacitor-based external power supply. Yet, I have been wondering for some time if my audio nirvana could ever be uber-nirvanized, as the technology of audio reproduction has continued to evolve. So, when Rowland released its statement integrated amplifier in the form of Daemon, I became curious. Could an integrated equal, or at least get close to my Aeris + PSU + M925 trio? Thus, I have been long hoping to evaluate the Rowland Daemon 1500W Superintegrated amp. Could a class D integrated fulfill my yearning for sonic bliss, or would Daemon leave me pining for the wonderful music of my separates? Eventually, a Daemon review unit was delivered on February 28th. I Started break-in the following day, and have been scribbling my listening notes since… The writing project will continue for at least a few months, until the device has stabilized, and I have exercised several of its many input and output features. I have been waiting for a long time for this 99Lbs single box critter. It is Jeff Rowland’s integrated statement. The DAC + Preamp + 1500W/8 (2500W/4) dual-mono power amp in a single chassis measuring 17.5” x 15.25” x 9.5” is sounding amazing after just a little more than 300 hours of break-in.
Discovering the extraordinary musical beauty that Daemon produces is being a fascinating experience… Already I am stunned by Daemon's power reserve and unreal tonal grace. Join me to chat about my adventure with this integrated flagship around its new Audiogon watering-hole:
And, feel free to PM me with any questions about it.
Saluti, Guido |
Hi Sam,
in some past, the single box design inherently compromised the performance of an integrated... Just to site an example, a single power supply was mostly used for all subsystems because of size limitations, thus cross-talk and distortion could leak among subsystems. Conversely, on devices such as Daemon, there are individual regulated SMPS on various subsystems.... In the amplification section, there is a dedicated power supply on each channel, making Daemon's amplification a dual-mono design.
But I realize that in the end, proof of goodness must be in the pudding... So I will eventually compare the performance of Daemon feeding Die Muzik directly to that of Daemon feeding M925, and those into Die Muzik speakers.
BTW, all my wiring is by Cardas... Clear Beyond XL for power cords, and Clear Reflection for speaker wires and analog ICs... I found that Cardas has extraordinary synergy with Rowland equipment, and am in fact amazed about the glorious sound I am getting, even though the Reflection line is at least a couple of levels below Cardas's Clear Beyond, which is Cardas's top of the line for analog ICs and speaker wires.
Saluti, Guido |
Hello Chazzzy, the most notable discussion of M925 on Audiogon is by WhiteCamaroSS, Audiogon's very own amp marathon-man... He considers the Rowland M925 monoblocks the best amps he has ever had in his own system. He has chronicled his enthusiastic comparative experience with M925 on his thread, starting at:
Look at his posts mentioning M925 on the page above, and the following pages, starting on 04/30/2018.
Outside Audiogon, Marc Mickelson has posted an extremely favorable review of M925's stereo sybling, the M825:
http://www.theaudiobeat.com/equipment/jeff_rowland_model_825.htm
Note that M925 and M825 share the same design... Only difference is that M825 has two output stage converters to serve in stereo mode, and a single 2500W DC power supply that feeds both channels.
As for myself, I am ever more in awe with my M925 monos, which I have owned since 2013. Lately I decided to feed them through the new Cardas Clear Beyond XL power cords, with Cardas Reflection XLR ICS and speaker wires, and Clear coax to complete the cabling loom.... The result is even more jaw-droppingly resolving and musically immersive than the high performance level I was used to until now. I'll be happy to chat with you about M925 if you send me a PM.... Or post your questions about the monos to this thread.
Regards, Guido
|
Thank you so much @Alstewart... You summerized my own M925 experience to a T! The reason why M925 monos never get really hot to the touch is that they have an efficiency of approximately 93%. Ther power is approximately 430W into 4 Ohms, reaching 850W into 4 Ohms. Their 2500W DC power supplies let them generate a peak current of 45A per chassis. I never heard them breaking a swet on my Vienna Die Muzik speaker, even with the extremely high dynamics of Mahler symphonies at high SPL. The M925 have achieved recently a new quantum plateau in my system. I have adopted a full loom of Cardas cables in my system.... I started with the new flagship Clear Beyond XL power cords, and so to leave still room for future upgrades, the Clear entry level Reflection for XLR and speaker wires.... The result still stuns me: there is definitely a magic synergy between Rowland and Cardas, because I have never heard my system as refined and immersive as it is now. Interestingly, the break-in process for Cardas wires appears to be quite benign.... About 300 hours likely takes the entire loom to over 90% of their performance potential.... Even from the first few hours one can tell that there is something truly special goiong on..... Of course, there is a bit of performance fluctuation for the first 70 or so hours, after which the performance arrow points steadily up. Did I mention that bass is spectacular and harmonic development is to die for? And I have heard sweetness of treble that I do not believe that any other wires have yielded until now. Yes, I have loved my M925 monos since 2013 and have never suffered of an audiophilic wandering eye about them... But with the addition of the Cardas loom, these amps have achieved peaks of musical beauty that even I did not believe possible. I am working on a detailed review of the Cardas loom in the context of my system.... I am still gathering some technical information.... I'll post the full review to Audiogon as soon as it is ready. Saluti, Guido
|
