Redkiwi:
Great to hear of your positive experience. it fits with mine. I'm running my Squeezebox into a Genesis Digital Lens and then into an Apogee Big Ben. Then I'm using a TacT RCS 2.0s and dCS Purcell and Delius. The sound of the squeezebox in this manner is nearly as good as CD sound from a modified Wadia 270se.
There are still some minor bugs that the SlimDevices folks are trying to work out. For example, sometimes my channels reverse for no good reason.
Harry |
Redkiwi:
Squeezebox is AMAZING!! AIFF is a totally uncompressed format supported by iTunes and Squeezebox similar to a .wav file. You probably won't be able to tell the difference between AIFF and FLAC, although to my ear...I liked AIFF better.
I'm running my squeezebox through a digital lens and apogee big ben....and then to a dCS purcell upsampler...and a dCS delius dac. Overkill you say?? You should hear the sound. It rivals my modified Wadia 270se.
There are still a few minor bugs wth the squeezebox. I occasionally notice that the channels are reversed. They are working on this.
It will be interesting to see how the new Apple Airport Express...with it's digital output and direct wireless link to iTunes compares. We'll see if it is sonically infereior.
Keep in touch.
Harry |
Haven't tried Apple Lossless files yet...but will. I'm running my squeezebox off of the 5V output of a B&K Linear power supply. I think I hear improvement, but haven't done careful blind testing yet.
Anybody out there modified their squeezebox yet??
harry |
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Sonance...I posted your response in another forum and Tonycdk replied in the following manner;
"Having a correct bit stream is not the problem . Almost all
players derive the correct bit stream (except for read errors that
may occur from really bad CDs).
Accurate digital reproduction requires that the original sampling
of the analog waveform from the microphone occurs at exactly
equal time increments, and then is converted back from digital at
exactly equal timing increments. If there is any slight variation in
the timing, either in the recording process or the reproduction
process (the two are independent of each other) the reproduced
waveform will not be exactly the same as the original.
It is basically more or less impossible to build hardware to
provide absolutely perfect timing. The slight scatter in the actual
length of the timing ( it is usually in the hundreds of pico second
range) results in what we call "jitter" and a slightly imperfect
waveform reproduction.
In any digital recording there is absolutely nothing we can do
about 'jitter' introduced by timing spread in the recording
equipment. This effect is encoded on the recording and can not
be removed. Fortunately most recording gear seems to be
reasonably good these days - although that may not be the case
for some early digital recordings.
Mostly, what we hear as 'jitter' results from the accuracy of the
timing in our gear. Having a perfect bit stream does not affect
the timing. This is why we put so much emphasis on accurate
clocking of the data stream - for example, why so many of us use
the Big Ben for re-clocking.
The short answer to your question is that having an accurate bit
stream is good, but is unrelated to the jitter issue."
This is why reclocking the signal pertains to the squeezebox even though the data stream originates from a hard drive!!! |
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Hi Everybody:
I picked up the Xitel Pro-HiFi link for $99 at a local CompUSA today. Very impressive indeed. It can play all my file types (AIFF, WAV, etc.). It also has both toslink and digital coax output. I simply plugged a USB cable into my computer and into the small silver interface box. From there, I plugged a glass toslink into my Genesis Digital Lens. For sake of completeness, the full path is as follows:
Computer via USB -> Xitel Pro-HiFi Link -> Genesis Lens -> ApogeeBB -> TacT RCS 2.0 -> Apogee BB -> dCS Purcell -> dCS Delius -> Placette Dual Mono Preamp -> Innersound ESL Monoblocks ->Martin Logan CLS II z's + 2 Vandersteen 2wq subs.
The Xitel Link is hooked to the Lens via Toslink and the Squeezebox is hooked to the Lens via digital coax. Otherwise the paths are identical except that the computer streams to the squeezebox via WiFi and the Xitel is hard wired via USB.
Bottom line is that both the Xitel and Squeezebox are both sonically excellent, but I must say that I prefer the Xitel so far. The advantage is that there are absolutely no dropouts or sonic glitches as I was occasionally seeing with the squeezebox. Additionally, I can use iTunes or anything else as my interface with the Xitel. With the Squeezebox, one is limited to the SlimDevices server software as an interface. With the Xitel, I simply went into system preference and set the audio output to the USB port. The Xitel worked immediately without a single glitch or dropout.
Sonically, I can currently say that the Xitel is at least as good as the Squeezebox, and possibly better.
So here are some advantages of xitel:
(1) Hard USB connection is more reliable than WiFi.
(2) Hard USB connection doesn't slow down family network and internet connection.
(3) Xitel allows use of any interface including iTunes. Any sound from any software can be directed to the USB port and out to the Xitel. Squeezebox requires proprietary SlimDevices server software
(4) Sonically at least as good as squeezebox, possibly superior.
(5) No drop outs, freeze ups, skips, noises, channel reversals etc. In all fairness, slimdevices is working hard to correct current problems.
(6) Xitel requires no firmware updates or server updates. It simply converts the USB output to PCM (or DD/DTS). It is MUCH simpler to use.
Here are the disadvantages of the Xitel:
(1) Requires wired USB connection. Less portability.
(2) No remote. All access is through the computer.
(3) There is no display on the box.
In summary, these devices are somewhat different in that one is simply an interface between the usb port of the computer and the stereo.....whereas the other is a more ambitious, but less reliable server based solution with WiFi potential and a remote.
For me the decision is a no brainer. With the squeezebox...I always had my computer in front of me for control anyway, and I felt that the WiFi aspect, while somewhat convenient, also led to lots of problems.
I'll be using the Xitel from now on...although I'll hang on to my squeezebox for now.
If anybody has any questions about this thing...drop me a line.
Harry |
Dmitrydr:
While I'm happy with the Squeezebox which has the advantage of being wireless....I'm actually a LOT more happy with the ESI Waveterminal U24.
harry |
Dmitrydr:
Agree with you on this. Not always, but often the quality of internal components correlates with price. By the way, I'm not using the internal dac in ANY of thes units. I'm simply running USB in and digital out. The digital signal then hits a Genesis Lens, Apogee Big Ben, TacT RCS 2.0s, another Big Ben, dCS Purcell, dCS Delius and then off to the rest of my system.
Harry |
Redkiwi:
That's the next step....i'll try wired Squeezebox. But I still have the issue of the squeezebox eating up a fair bit of bandwith on our network. I'll give it a try though.
Harry |
Yes...i forgot to mention this. The squeezebox also could not play streaming radio from Sirius because they have their own "player" interface...and the squeezbox server couldn't pick it up.
With the Xitel, I'm able to play the Sirius streams through my stereo. Incidentally, the streaming algorithms are improving and internet radio is becoming very tolerable from a sonic standpoint.
This stuff is going to get better and better!!!
Harry |
Ckorody emailed me and informed me that the company that had the great price on the U24 was totally bogus. First of all, it was a U2A which has been discontinued. Second, they don't even sell that one either. Deals that are too good to be true...are generally false!!!
harry |
Dmitrydr: You really should try a squeezebox. From a sonic perspective, it is truly outstanding. The only modification I have done is that I am running mine from the 5V output of a B&K Linear power supply instead of from the one supplied. I also am running the output through a Genesis Digtial Lens and an Apogee Big Ben.
My problems with the Big Ben have been two fold. First, it eats a fair amount of bandwidth, so my home network gets much slower while it is in use. Second, as with all new products there have been some bugs that can lead to occasional dropouts, channel reversal etc.
For this reason I've also been using a wired solution. So far, I tried a Xitel Pro Hi Fi Link. This also sounds pretty darn good, but the cheap chipset upconverts everything to 48k instead of leaving it in native 44.1k. I have a problem with this because it can add artifact above the noise floor and I think it has.
Soooo....yesterday I ordered a Wavetermina U24 which is, according to many sources, bit-accurate and sonically outstanding. Of course, this is a USB wired solution as opposed to wireless.
I'll report on this here.
harry |
Redkiwi:
i agree with everything you have said regarding the freedom of using ones computer as a soundserver. It just makes listening so much easier. Is the sound as good as my modified Wadia 270se?? No. But the convenience makes listening to tunes incredibly easy and enjoyable.
While I think the squeezebox is an excellent product, i think the wired USB solution with the Ego Systems Waveterminal U24 is better for me. The wireless aspect is unimportant to me, and I love the reliability, lack of dropouts or other problems, and the ability to use iTunes as my interface instead of the Slimdevices server.
I think both the Squeezebox and the Waveterminal will see a fair amount of action in my system.
I do have a question for you Redkiwi. When you speak of modifying the squeezebox with Black Gates...is this primarily for people using the analog outputs....or do you think this will have an impact for those of us who are using the digital output to a dac?
harry |
Redkiwi:
I'm addicted to having my powerbook on my lap at all times, so the monitor is a non-issue to me!!!
harry |
Ckorody:
I'm still loving my waveterminal. I was working through all of the network issues, pop and click issues, network slowdown issues, build quality issues.......and....well, I'm happy as a lark with my Waveterminal. If you don't mind a wired solution, all of these problems will disappear. The waveterminal works perfectly. And I haven't even started up the Waveterminal upgrade path yet.
If you continue with Squeezebox, you probably should find a way to use an external linear 5V power supply as oppossed to the the supplied wall wart. I ran my Sqeezebox of an external B&K Linear that I'm using to power other gear...and there was a definite improvement.
Incidentally, I copied my iTunes music folder to an external 250GB Lacie drive. Works great and saves your primary harddrive.
Good luck,
Harry |
Ckorody:
You better check to make sure it is a U24. It says U2A even though the picture is the U24. Make sure it's not an older discontinued model. If it is a U24 that is one AWESOME deal.
harry |
Ckrody:
I'm using 10.3.4 also. Mine worked immediately, and also included an OS 10 version of the control software, although it is unnecessary.
harry |
