Every day I see another turntable recommendation...


After digging into this topic, I am convinced now I need to go a bit higher on this first vinyl set up. I think all in, I am prepared at this point to go up to $5k, for the table alone, not including arm or cartridge.

But frankly, being on this forum is like drinking from an information firehose. I have learned a bunch and yet somehow, I am less convicted than before.

With that in mind, to narrow down the decision, I am want to restrict myself to things I can buy, hear and, if necessary, service locally. My local dealers stock, AMG, AVM, Basis, Clearaudio, Michell, Musichall, Pro-ject, Rega, VPI, so I am likely restricted to those brands. I am certain my view will change by the end of this thread.

saulh

Showing 5 responses by mijostyn

@cleeds, of course I have a rumble filter, a very steep digital rumble filter with a cut off frequency of 18 Hz. The rumble is coming from the record. My subwoofer amps will go clear down to DC and although the subwoofers can't project much under 10 Hz they will gladly bounce of their bump stops at low frequencies making a rather disturbing noise. 

All in all judging by your comments you do not have a lot of experience with vinyl and high performance systems or you would know these things. You could argue that because of all the low frequency rubbish on records the environmental noise does not mean much, a very valid point. What you do not seem to know is that using a properly isolated table designed the way the Sota is a joy. You can handle it without having to be do so gingerly. I can put my hand down on it without inducing skipping. I can bump into the cabinet, no problem. I can accidently drop the dust cover.  Children can run around and play in the room, jump up and down and even bounce of the cabinet without any effect what so ever. I can play the system at patently ridiculous volumes without any problem (once I solved the feedback issue).   

@cleeds , always a pleasure. Having owned two Linns I can certify that the AR XA is more stable than the Linn. The Linn is not tricky to set up at all. You set it up just like any other turntable. You just have to put it in a bullet proof situation, a very stable platform. The problem is that there is no reasonable platform stable enough. I sold the first Linn in frustration but back then I did not know near as much as I do now. After several other turntables it became obvious that the Linn sounded better than other turntables of the day so I wound up getting another one. I sold #2 in 1980 or so when I got my first Sota. What a breath of fresh air. 

There are plenty of videos showing an earthquake wave traveling along the ground. Obviously seismology is not your subject. Earthquakes are not happening on a continuous basis but they are happening all the time. Most of them so mild you do not feel them. Really big earthquakes, above Richter 5 are fortunately not frequent. 

Many audiophiles tap around their turntables to determine the level of isolation. Michael Fremer does this occasionally. Is a hammer excessive? Not if you want a turntable that is totally immune to everything. You may not want this but I do and there may be a few other nut jobs out there like me who want it also. I mention it just to let people know it is possible. I can bump into my turntable, drop the dust cover, run into the cabinet, etc and not only will it not skip but you can not hear a twitter through the system with the volume maxed out. The result is a dead quiet turntable. Is this excessive? Given that the background noise on the record is magnitudes higher, it probably is.  It certainly is for you.

 

@clearthinker , no wonder. I owned two Linns over the years and they have to be the poorest suspended turntables made. Very unstable. The problem was they were a great sounding turntable for relatively reasonable money at the time. I got rid of my last one in 1981 and never looked back.

False clearthinker. There is loads of low frequency noise in the environment that is transmitted to the turntable. Don't believe me? With your turntable on, place the stylus down in the run out area and turn the volume all the way up. Keep an eye on your woofers. Have a friend or significant other turn on the washing machine and watch what happens. Have them walk around the room, jump up and down. You will hear your furnace light up and your AC compressor start up. You might even hear cars going up your street. A severe earthquake is just visible evidence of a wave traveling through the ground. The earth is quaking all the time at levels you can not feel, but your cartridge can and if you have a good system you will see it in the woofers. 

Currently, the way my Sota is set up if you do the same experiment, and I have, all I ever get is a little hiss from the phono stage and I have boosted subwoofers. With the high pass filter off my system will go right down to DC. I can hammer the side of the plinth and you can not hear a thing and I mean hard enough to dent the wood if I did not have a wooden block in the way. Try that with your table but you might want to turn the volume down first and be ready to catch the tonearm. Like the earth quake this is a severe example. People do not normally hit their tables with hammers but you will see in your woofers how plenty of noise you can't hear makes it's way into your system via the turntable and it does not matter how much the turntable weights, this is just lay intuition. 

@saulh no it is not a suspension at all. The magnetic field is compressed by the weight of the platter until it is almost as stiff as a solid thrust mechanism not to mention that the platter is still located by a solid spindle. 

@clearthinker, vibrations can pass through springs but only below the resonance frequency of the suspension. Springs are mechanical low pass filters. The suspension on my Sota is set at 2 Hz with a very high Q so by 8 Hz everything is blocked. No mechanical vibration above 8 Hz gets to the sub chassis. Since the sub chassis is entirely enclosed by the plinth and dust cover much less airborne vibration gets to it. 

MASS DOES NOTHING TO ISOLATE A TURNTABLE FROM MECHANICAL VIBRATION. I will say this until I am blue in the face. It does help with airborne vibration but not mechanical vibration. This is the vibration that is passed on to the turntable through whatever it is sitting on. Some people have called it "room Rumble" as it occurs at very low frequencies right about where tonearm resonance hits which only serves to amplify the rumble. Foot fall problems are "room rumble" generated by walking. Room Rumble is generated by anything and everything that is going on in the environment from the cement truck running down the street to various house mechanicals turning themselves on and off. Mass does not protect you from this and in the minds of some (Rega) can make things worse. Sound waves travel through the ground just like through air. When they get severe enough you get an earthquake. There is a constant din going on in the background it is just below the level and frequency our own senses can detect but not the cartridge, it feels everything. That is what it is designed to do.

So, clearthinker, throw away your Kuzma Stabi XL DC AIR and get yourself a real turntable like a Sota, Basis, Avid or SME and enjoy listening to music without rumble. It will be an entirely new experience for you.

Saul, of the brands you mentioned Basis is handily the best. The 2200 is $8000 so it is not in your range. The Inspiration is one of my favorite tables but it is beyond my monetary comfort level. If the 2200 is beyond yours the closest match at a reasonable price would be the Sota Nova. All those other turntables you mentioned are not isolated by a suspension. They will not shield the cartridge from extraneous vibration ( sound) as well if at all. The Rega turntables offer the most for the money. The RP10 is as good as any of the other turntables.