How! Perrew
Tool ------- oh yeah!?
Cool, but then by any chance to make this THE one on HDCD also: "LATERALUS"
Wanna blow my head off, why not :-)
Axel |
I suggested Alison Krauss "so long so wrong"
If you got side two, 3rd (last) cut going fine, you got something going... :-)
Then let us know what you use also.
A. |
Hi,
yes, I guess we need an attempt to 'level the paying field' (pun intended).
"Folk Singer" as mentioned, also some possible synergy with digital, yes?
Now, 'Folk Singer' on UltradiscII UDCD 593 STEREO sounds very good, so it does on CHESS records HDR 1001, yet a typical item to be in favour of vinyl, in my system.
B U T, now lets look at some others:
- 'Sometin' ELSE' on UltradiscII UDCD563 sounds crap, to put it bluntly.
- 'Kind of Blue' Columbia COL 4606032 (CD, prod. by Teo Macero) is just as bad, and makes me wonder what everyone would want to rave about? Yet, having heard some more recent re-mastering, it's much better.
(Surely it must have been re-master 1 million time by now...)
Artistic performance is somethin' else :-) but NOT the sound of it. We will have those issues to 'weed out' else we are headed for some chaos.
One more for 'flavouring' is DECCA SXL 2248 'La Boheme'. I have the DECCA 'wide silver band', alas made in SA!
No idea if the 'Made in England' item is any better as far as plain old groove noise and tape hiss goes?
It is VERRRY dynamic and in places wants to dismantle your drivers! Horrific test for massed instruments, voice(s) et al. But as I said, groove noise --- bad news in deed.
Axel |
Right,
I vote for:
- A. Krauss 'so long so wrong'
- Santana (MFSL re-issue) 'ABRAXAS'
- Mussorgsky 'Pictures at an Exhibition' (Classic, LSC-2201) Reiner CSO
- Rachmaninov 'Rhapsody on a Theme of Paganini' (Classic LSC-2430) Reiner CSO |
I second 'hell freezes over' since there is a practically identical (mastered) CD easily available also.
Syntex, are you suggesting my two RCA re-issues are now TOO good? Or are you on about some other items?
Else might we need to have a "TOO good" elimination process also?
A. |
Hi Syntax,
Mussorgsky 'Pictures at an Exhibition' (Classic, LSC-2201) Reiner CSO.
As with some other living Stereo RCA's there have been some original full frequency/dynamic versions --- than came the complaints and they got much reduced in dynamics so as to be able to play them on most often then used TTs.
If you listen to one of these, well they are WELL below anything to write home about.
So, I guess it's the re-issue for this one. I has just about EVERYTHING on it, right across the full orchestra 'blow-out' to very very gentle passages.
I could have mentioned Richard Strauss - Also sprach Zarathustra - with Reiner, but that one might just have been too much, same as Jacques Offenbach's - Gaîté Parisienne ... with, well you will know who *).
Now as I understand you wanted to 'ban' some stuff 'cause it's too good, making 'everything' sound too nice. What did you have in mind, just to get some idea.
A.
PS: *) Arthur Fiedler and the Boston Pops ... just in case. |
Hi,
Most suggestions sound very good (the ones I have heard) -- B U T The Eagles "Hotel California" seems the exception here so far.
Tubean, the CD that I have (Made in Germany) is truly and utterly **non-audiophile**.
In contrast "hell freezes over", most of the live stuff, is far superior. Though the side one tracks (all studio), sounds awfully digital to me, even on vinyl.
Viridian, SRV is of course also on CD, but minus the bonus tracks on side 4 vinyl. (It is yet another CD that makes vinyl sound so much better).
Halcro, oh yes!
The Royal Ballet-Ansermet-RCA Victor-Record, actually all 4 sides, why only side 1?
It is THE vinyl to show off vinyl! :-) But as I should think just too good, it "makes every rig sound great"?
Be interesting to see what D. comes up with...
Axel |
Dee,
I got you, -- or was there any million $$$ suggestion, and I don't know :-)?
Have I mentioned some 'hidden' vinyl treasure?
All I own has cost nothing more than $30 and $0.20 the least. |
Stiltskin,
y.s.:
>>>Alison Krauss "So Long so Wrong" Good music, talented band, good recording however the studio mucked with the vocals too much.<<<
Most interesting comment. Any chance elaborating a bit on it?
I have an idea, but let's hear how you would put it, please. |
Thanks Stiltskin,
>>> Alisons voice is so sweet...<<< :-) too true! Some latter day Dolly Pardon?
But I think her is a bit 'thin' also, and what I can hear on some tracks they done a dubbed voice-over i.e. she sings it twice to make it sound less a bit fuller.
I was expecting you might have noticed some of that :-) |
Halcro, D.
>>> side one on the Royal Ballet set is dead on perfect phase - the other 3 sides are not...<<<
I follow this with great interest :-)
The one (for me) most important short coming of side 1, the stereo double album, (I also have the single 1st disc in mono), the cutter left that 'nasty' 50Hz buzz 'marking/trace' on the groove.
It can be clearly heard subsiding when going into dead wax.
There are a number of older recordings (period from 1958 to 1963) that seem to have that exact problem also, I'm thinking DG.
Maybe we can get 'Atmasphere' to comment on this, as he seems the one contributor most closely knowledgeable of cutting-lathes, and their problems.
Axel
|
Hi, one more?
"Ma Mère L'Oye" by Ravel with Ansermet and OSR?
Any comments on that one's 'PHASE'?
Another that's 'too good' by any chance?
A. |
Oh, oh, now we're getting down to brass-tacks!
Who'll be the judge on all this lot now?
Got to pull this Belafonte LP from under my locker and see what's what.
I do recall the music is not exactly down everyones alley though, my girl friend (17 year younger to say) is going to throw stuff at me I suspect.
A. |
OK, Belafonte at Carnegie Hall...
The applause on my lot supports Halcro's gripe, not very defined at all, the singer is there very nicely but superior 'hall information' .... I think I heard better. ---Now we are of course supposed to listing to the performers and they are very well defined.
Here is a clue: This album was **at least** 6 time re-issued and not getting better by the time I got my orange budget (I guess) label RCA.
Could explain some of it, yes?
A. |
Hi,
back to Belafonte.
The following I can dig up:
1) RCA LOC-6006 1959, 2 LPs, MONO (USA)
2) RCA LSO-6006 1959, 2 LPs, STEREO (USA)
3) RCA LSO-6006 ca. 1968, 2 LPs, Stereo (England)
4) Classic Records, RCA LSO-6006 1995, 2 LPs, STEREO (USA)
5) Classic Records, 1995, 1 LP, 45 RPM, White pressing (USA)
*) RCA 6006-2-R, 1992, CD, (FRG)
6) mine, pressed in Seoul, Korea, RCA orange Label,
etc. pp
So, it might just be a bit difficult in comparing this lot, as I had eluded to earlier.
Axel |
Hi,
let's maybe get some jazz in the mix also?
All time goodie "Time Out" by Dave Brubeck Quartet.
'6 eye' Columbia CS 8192
Or is this not so easily available any more?
Interesting with this one for me. When the set-up is fine you get a clear pre-echo when in the start-wax -- and the 'walking bass-line' becomes nicely noticeable, i.e. the timing sounds right, otherwise it can get a bit lost.
A.
PS: I tried my Belafonte again, the applause is annoyingly sounding like a 'waterfall', too bad. Yes, there is some 'live' hall information too. But that audience must have been done by the sound-engineer's apprentice . |
D.
I hear what you say, and as such there can be no argument.
If however everything (voices, instruments) sounds just right, and the applause does not (it's what I try to relate) then it doesn't sound like a VTA issue to me.
Unless, we are saying that applause is the 'new' guide-line in setting VTA, and not the voice/instrument.
It would mean we have to go from 'voicing' to 'applaucing'?
I do know that lesser resolving systems make applause sound more like water falling. But a good resolution makes it clear it is actually water and not 'white noise' also (if it is water :-) --- which is fine as far as my speakers go.
By the way, the percussion / cymbal work on the "Time Out" is pretty well captured, unfortunately not all of the piano.
Also there is a more recent HDCD of "Time Out" and I could argue that my rather old LP still sounds better, more palpable.
But is this LP still or again available, to your knowledge?
A. |
D.
thanks for the "Time Out" vote. Good to know it's available still/again on vinyl --- any source you'd like to mention?
As to: >>>ambient and individual details in a fairly quite audience are about the utmost low level <<<
Oh, YES, yes!
But excuse me, applause is not: "... about the utmost low level" and that is what Halcro, and I consecutively where on about.
The APPLAUSE is, well... 'lacking' in comparison to the rest, and becomes somehow a little annoying...
It sounds like some patched in 'canned' piece of sound track, to call a spade a spade.
A. |
OK, what about some POP 'side-kick(s)'
Peter Gabriel "SO" (detailed but may be a bit hot mastered?)
Paul Simon "Graceland" (explosive percussions, voices, the lot)
A. |
One more for the road, -- POP ~ cross-over.
Jesse Cook: "Tempest" on NARADA EQUINOX ND 63035
If this be available on LP, it'd be a knock-out album. Fast, up tempo flamenco guitar with punchy percussion, mostly instrumental (just as well :-).
This CD is used by some reviewer(s), which drew my attention to it. A CD I actually manage to listen to from beginning to end.
A. |
Hi D. and Frogman,
I thing your reply did not fully cover what Frogman was on about. But let's see if he concurs with my notion.
A. |
Tubetan :-)
I don't think you are a Philistine but 'projecting forward', our most valued Western thinking 'planning' genes kicking in.
Why not try to 'go with the flow' and see what materializes.
I guess there will be some to come of what you mention --- but there may be something useful also, I'm sure.
Just hang loose and try to avoid getting into some 'self fulfilling prophesy'. And you might find that bit of useful information you didn't even know to ask?
Greetings,
Axel
|
D. >> "better have them inside the tent peeing out...
LBJ actually said 'pissing'. I though that was cool... :-)
A. |
Dear Raul:
I think you have just earned a round of applause, thank you!
Axel |
Raul:
one question I have to add:
What about the pretty sibilant opening of the 1st track on side two "Tequila sunrise"?
It is even to some degree apparent on the CD.
Axel |
Hi,
So, what then about "Tequila sunrise" and sibilance distortion?
Would that be part of the test scenario?
A. |
Thanks D.
You may want to figure if Tequila Sunrise will be a test case (or not), -- as well as the much talked about last track from side 2 of "so long so wrong" AK, even the 2nd (middle track) seems a challenge.
B U T if we can determine that those two example are due to the vinyl it self, we also have learned something.
A. |
Oh yes,
the one's been kicked about in the "Killing sibilance..." thread,
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?eanlg&1245595534
and is well distributed. Doug's using it as some sort of test LP.
The Eagles' "Hell freezes over" ('Tequila Sunrise', 1st Track on side 2) was brought on by Raul he's using it as a test LP (but the 2nd track on side 2, 'Hotel California'), it's their 2nd last album and also available.
A. |
