Henryhk, DAC6e and DCC2 are converting to DSD even the PCM from another transport. It is not nesessary to use the EMM transport in order to have DSD converted PCM. What really matters is the re-clocking of the EMM transport which can not be done using non EMM transport and that is where the big diffrence comes from. Both DAC6 and DCC2 are using DSD1700 DACs which are the Burr-Brown top notch DSD DACs. These do not support PCM.
Regards,
Alex |
Tgun5, there are two master clocks for the upsampling in DV-50. There is also another master clock circuit that provides six (6) more clocks for the PCM, SACD and Video processors. This totals eight (8) clocks needed for the machine. It is essential to start with upgrading the six (6) clocks that are clocking the above mentioned processing which is the heart of the machine. Then, it is not bad idea to upgrade the Upsampling clocks too. Upgrading just one (1) of the Upsampling clocks will sure bring some incremental improvement, but it will be like a plastic surgery to your face in order to mask your heart failure.
Regards,
Alex |
Springbok10, it was mentioned earlier that they will bring DAC6e (note the "e"). It is the new $12K updated version of DAC6 and is exactly the same as DCC2 less the built in preamp in the DCC2.
Regards,
Alex |
I am sure that you have previous experience of comparing digital front end equipment but I just wanted to throw in my few cents.
First of, it is very important that you have a Pink Noise CD and SPL meter to EQ levels. If you don't do that you can never get the right idea. Also, I would suggest the method of elimination for the shootout. Start A-B-ing two machines and vote on which you like better. Then add the next one to compare against your first preference. It would be best if you decide on one PCM and one SACD track for the initial A-B test. After you decide on the two best machines you can go into variety of other recordings in order to determine the winner.
Finally, the above suggested "blind" test is a very good idea. There is aways a way to do that.
Regards,
Alex |
I have started many messages that I was intending to post, but I deleted them.
You are right; slightly modded DV-50 is as good as or better than my Denon. Same applies about any stock, slightly or extensively modified digital player available on the market today. The difference between these is so subtle, so there is actually almost no difference just a matter of 1 or 2 points. I am sure that if the guy with the Meitner DAC6e and CDSD showed at this shootout, he would be really close in scores to all of these completely different sounding players (IMO) as well. Actually, the slightly modded DV-50 might be on the top of it as well.
Regards,
Alex |
Tom,
.As far as the Denon 3910, it is a completely redesigned unit that you put your name on. The DV-50 is something you modify if you have to. If this is not true, you could have stepped up at any point in this thread to say otherwise.
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>>> My DV-50 mod is complete re-design similar to the one in the Denon. It incorporates new clock, new DACs, power supply upgrades and new analog stage. Please read this: http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?ddgtl&1099737755&openflup&736&4#736
. The power cables used were different on each player. There was no isolation or bases used. The DV-50 was listened to single-ended instead of balanced, giving it a disadvantage. Some may consider that significant. If you want me to take the differences that I heard to the typical audiophile level, the facts are that the DV-50 was clearly superior. It excelled in bass definition, inner detail, and timing & pace. Even though the tube units were warmer, the DV-50 was more musical. It was equal to the other players in every other category. Are you all happy now? In my opinion, the owners shouldnt have voted anyway
..
>>> The above justifies unfair comparison. The tube units were warmer, but the DV-50 was more musical?.....strange.
I believe we all agreed to agree that day not only because it was difficult to choose a clear winner, but because we were having a great time. This is what the hobby is all about anyway. I really dont care whether you, Alex, believe it was close or not.
>>> It is not about belief; it is about knowledge and experience.
Ive been involved in hundreds of listening sessions and shootouts, many of which provide a clear outcome. FOR WHATEVER REASON this one was more complicated. In actuality, there was a larger improvement when Brian applied Optix and Nordost Eco to one of 711 smilins CDs. This difference was bigger than the differences between players seriously
>>> I like that - For whatever reason
.:-) I can not comment on your DV-50, but Ive heard Dans Sony 9000ES here in my system on two occasions. I am sure that many would like the sound of the Sony, but the difference in musical presentation was HUGE, actually night and day. There is no way in the world you can come up with similar ratings for these machines. If you do, then it is not for whatever reason, it is a problem somewhere in the system you have used for the shootout. It might be just a cable, but it is enough to pinch the hose in a way that everything sounds similar. Ive heard this before and I thought you might be aware of it as well. With the experience you claim to have, dont you think that it is a little strange all of these COMPLETELY DIFFERENT machines to sound similar?
Tom, I did not mean to offend you. I do not blame you either. I heard you have Maggies at home which I can trust as they are linear (uncolored) speakers. I am going to soon complete one demo unit because many are interested to hear it. It would be really great and fair if you are willing to listen to the Denon in YOUR system for 3 days and then come back and tell us the outcome.
Regards,
Alex |
Audio_girl, unless you have heard the "slightly modded DV-50" and the "full blown" Denon 3910 in your own system or under FAIR conditions, your posts do not make much sense.
I can not stand the "fact"? You must be kidding...:-)
Regards,
Alex |
Jayctoy, "Fla the transport in my cdp was not an issue.If I were you, I will email Dan."
Hmm, I really think that YOU should call Dan. "Fla" is right, too many transport problems with the 9000ES.
Fla, yes the 999ES has been updated. Also, Dan's 999ES mod is a successor to the 9000ES mod - much better, IMHO.
Regards,
Alex |
Jayctoy, I am glad for you that you are happy with Dan's 9000ES. Let me tell you that I have heard the 9000ES as you have it on two occasions in my own system. Also, I've heard it in a local reviewer's house in his system. In both cases, we compared the 9000ES to my previous reference mod based on Phillips SACD1000. Further more, I have measured the frequency response of the 9000ES here in my lab.
The 9000ES has some strengths making it sounding colorful and somewhat enjoyable. In general, and in my opinion, the 9000ES is highly colored sounding machine made to "please the ear". It has nice and lush midrange which is the reason for its "musicality". Other than that, the bass is of nice amount but is flabby (not well controlled), and the highs are significantly rolled off. It will be hard to say that the 9000ES offers the necessary top end detail, air and transparency.
Of course, this player would be very desirable for bright and thin sounding systems as it will add its colors resulting in good synergy and more enjoyable sound from digital. On a true sounding and really revealing system, the 9000ES shows its flaws immediately. This can also be seen measuring the unit in the lab.
Dan made the 9000ES to be more musical, not accurate.
The real puzzle is to design a digital player which is musical, accurate, realistic, detailed and extended without being fatiguing, just like professional analog reel-to-reel machines.
Regards,
Alex |
Jayctoy, as I mentioned, I have listened to your player on three occasions and in two different systems. What I heard (and measured) was consistent as well. I also know in detail how your player is built from the AC power inlet to the analog outputs.
I am really happy for you that you like the sound of your 9000ES. You are right; the music enjoyment is what matters most.
I wish I could fly you over here with your 9000ES because this would be the only way for you to understand what I am talking about.
Till then, enjoy the music!
Regards,
Alex |
