Entry into tubes

dunno how well the rogue will do regarding bass - i am the new owner of a rogue 99 preamp, tweeked by rogue, & the only thing that makes it listenable in the bass range is the addition of n.o.s. ge 6sn7 tubes - and this is w/a pair of adcom gfa 555's driving a pair of vmps larger subs, w/a pair of electrocompaniet amps driving my bi-amped meret re's. rogue's *upgrade* phillips nos tubes are not very good. i dunno if the latest rogue integrated is an all-tube design or not, but my experience, coupled w/what i have read about their amps, is that their integrated would not be satisfying for you, if it's all-tube. i was fortunate to have a *very* knowledgeable tube-roller locally. http://www.bws-tube.com/ if there isn't one in your area, you should be prepared to deal w/a company like this via the mail, to try & get the response you are looking for, *regardless* of which tubed product you choose. (also, stereo subs will help your sound *immensely*). i would suggest a hybrid integrated, such as the pathos classic one, which combines a tube pre w/solid-state amps. $2k new, i've seen these things for ~$1200 on the used market. (&, they're drop-dead gorgeous!) or, as suggested above, find a separate toob pre & a solid-state amp. or, try a solid-state integrated, such as electrocompaniet or alchemist, that's known for a warm sound. there's currently an alchemist kraken integrated f/s on audiogon for $575, asking price - you would *not* go wrong w/this... doug

charlie (& Tm12), 1st of all, my comments regarding trying rogue stuff are directed at someone who specifically mentions that bass response is important, & that they want to use maggies, which are a hard load to drive, especially in the bass. the rogue will *not* do it, period. i have over 400 hours on my preamp now, w/~150 hours on the n.o.s. ge tubes, which bruce wenger (www.bws-tube.com) said need 10 hours at most, to break-in. while the bass response is now *ok*, w/my prior linn kairn preamp, it was absolutely *outstanding*. & i'm talking about acoustical upright bass, not electronic synth stuff. and, yes, this was w/my *junk* adcom gfa 555's, putting out 900wpc into the 95db/1watt/<1/3%thd larger vmps subs (-3db @ 17hz). there's no way *any* other amp would better the adcom's output here - jeez, we're only talking frequencies below 60hz! say what ya want about adcom stuff, *no* one has *ever* slammed the bass capabilities of the adcom gfa555's (except Tm12!). not even *one* hi-end dealer, even tho salivating at the prospect of a sale, has told me i would gain anything by upgrading my subwoofer amps. *every one* has said "don't bother". and, besides, since the acoustic bass only goes down to 44hz, the fact is, most of the bass output is being handled by my electrocompaniet aw100 amp, driving the woofers of my monitors. while the soundstaging dimensionality of my system is *definitely* nicer w/the rogue 99 in my system, compared w/my previous linn kairn, i had *real* low-bass & mid-bass w/the linn, & it's now gone. that's why the rogue is for sale - i want it *all*. the rogue products (like adcom) are nice-sounding entry-level hi-end stuff, but if ya want *more*, ya gotta spend more. if bass is important to you (as it is to me), the rogue won't cut it. several critical listeners have heard my current set-up, and the bass is fine for *them*. two of 'em specifically understood what i was referring to when i complained i miss the bass - they heard the difference compared to how it was previously - but, they dint care, cuz they liked everything else! Tm12, i am not saying your rogue stuff doesn't put out satisfactory bass for you in your system. it's obvious that there are one of two things going on here - either you've never heard what *real* bass sounds like on a home-stereo, or it's not a priority for you (like it wasn't, for my friends). i had *real-live* string-bass-players in my living-room before, and i won't be satisfied w/a preamp until they return! ;~) doug

Tm12, the *quantity* of the bass is ok - not as good as i've heard, but it's ok. it would be acceptable, but the *texture* is also lacking - not as tonal, more like hi-fi than the real thing. two albums come to mind where this is really noticeable to me - both by patricia barbour: modern cool & cafe blue. it's also noticeable on a bluegrass cd called skip, hop, wobble, w/jerry douglas, russ barenberg, & edgar meyer. you're rite - i may never get to *audio nirvana*, but i'm gonna get closer in the bass! ;~) & you're also rite - could be an impedance mismatch. a well-respected engineer sez i should be getting a 3db drop if i insert a 100 ohm across the leads from my preamp-to-x-over, if the rogue's impedence is as the factory claims. well, i get a 3db drop w/a 2.2k ohm resistor, 100 ohms give me more like a 20db drop! so, this may be part of the problem. i *am* gonna try another tubed preamp; i'll keep y'all posted.

tm12, i forgot to ad - i'm using a pentagon p-3 fono stage into the rogue... doug