Guys, please contact Fraser on the email contact I posted 12-11-13, he'll be able to give you definitive answers to tech qs. I can help out with user experiences. |
Jarraa, have left it at only connecting the preamp to the Silver Tellus. We tried one from the earthing post on my phono stage, but this actually didn't enhance the sound. This may not be the case on every system, the dealer was a little confused by this, but kudos to him, he accepted the fact. And my cd player only has balanced jacks, and Entreq haven't yet released a balanced i/c, although this is imminent.
When the system beds in, I'll try the cd i/c and possibly give the phono i/c another go. At present there is no way to try connecting power amps or integral powered subs, to the Silver Tellus in my system.
The enhancement starts to work within about ten minutes, but really kicks in after about ten days, and then seems to stay consistent.
I feel the Silver is a significant improvement over the Copper, well worth the extra cost.
Dan, hi, we've spoken before. Just demolished my ESCCO stylus. GRRR! Great I'm in the queue for another. Yes, it's taken the system up several stages, I really believe more than a whole system swap. It's THAT dramatic.
But I do live in an area with severely compromised mains. In the country etc, or other areas where mains is purer, the improvements may not be as dramatic. Insist on a home trial. |
Jea, yes maybe it is more accurate to describe Tellus as a grounding box, especially since it's separate from the grid, and is not meant to replace the (electrical) protective earth. The box is passive and standalone, and might best be described as a sump that mains borne and component generated nasties ie rf/emi etc drain into, isolated from the system and grid.
Jaraa, the Silver Tellus has a calmer quality than the Copper, and does it's job even more successfully, that a certain warm colouration still present in vinyl with the Copper is absent with the Silver. Also, check out balanced power first, any cheap 4kVA isolation transformer will bring a transformation in corrupted mains areas. Then, try the Tellus. |
Entreq Silver Tellus continuing to weave it's magic. In conjunction with balanced power, I'm getting that "after midnight" sound 24/7.
Convinced this combination is minimising the inherently high noise floor in my system re mains borne hash.
One interesting side effect of the Tellus is a projection of the soundstage further into the room, hence increasing immediacy, and depth/transparency. Some increase in soundstage height.
NOT the same as an artificially inflated soundstage as I've heard eg with Avantgarde horns, where instruments take on a gigantic perspective. Just a refined aspect of what I'm used to. |
Hi Msom. Revealing is the word. On a par with my move to balanced power, both really complement each other. However unlike you I didn't perceive an improvement with the Apollo Eartha i/c to the earth of my phono. Just switched to a Straingauge cart, so will try the ground on the SG200 energiser box to see if analog worth pursuing with. |
Msom, I'm struggling to find where to attach any Eartha cable to my tt - I have direct cart-phono stage silver cabling, with no tonearm cable jacks, so this may be a blind alley for me. But there may be an interesting solution.
Next port of call will be a balanced Eartha btwn cd player and Tellus.
Tell me more re your QV2's. |
Msom, I'm going to stick with a combination of 8kVA balanced power and Tellus grounding. A match made in Heaven. |
Msom, do you mean where did I place the unit physically, or how it ranks in system sound improvements resulting from it's use? |
My power is in physical sequence: modded consumer unit wired into domestic consumer unit, in hallway behind listening space. Then, specialised mains cabling to dedicated unswitched 2 socket box at ground level adj to AV components. First transformer installed, a 4kVA standard non-audiophile unit, hard wired into one of sockets, sitting behind AV rack, supplying 2 laserdisc players, blu ray, AV processor, surround sound amps, and CRT projector.
The Westwick is a pro studio 8kVA unit, not hard wired, plugged into spare socket, and sited about 3' from main audio rack via long captive power lead. Not noticing any hum issues. |
About to audition a couple more Entreq Apollo i/cs, a balanced one for my Emm Labs CDSA cdp, and another spade end one with my Soundsmith Straingauge SG200 energiser box. Prev phono performed worse with an Apollo, so this will just be speculative.
LOVING what the Silver Tellus is doing to lower the noise floor with just a single rca Apollo to the preamp. |
Just installed a spade-spade Apollo from my Straingauge energiser box earth terminal to the Silver Tellus, and a balanced-spade Apollo from the spare balanced output of my Emm Labs CDSA SE cdp to the Silver Tellus - all alongside the rca-spade Apollo from the Hovland HP200 preamp to the Silver Tellus.
The effects of all this are phenomenal. An amazing reduction in noise floor allowing subtle details to emerge from blackness, and a general reduction in hash and bloat.
Aiming to add a last pair of spade-spade Apollos from the earth terminals of each of my new Audion Black shadow SET monoblocks.
All really enhancing, and taking fwds, the effects of balanced power on the system. |
Listen guys, the purpose of this thread is not to bash Miguel. My one and only contact with him by private email took the form of a patently absurd claim for his product, esp. made worse by the fact that it was a situation that was theoretical and would be nigh on impossible to arrange.
So, again, I have no issues with his product, just the relentless hard sell.
Yes, Fraser is a salesman, but who isn't these days? The High End certainly isn't a charity. However, he allows the product to speak for itself.
All I can say is that Troy may be better than Silver Tellus, but I'm ecstatic as to how the Silver Tellus is augmenting my system.
It's bringing a total sense of solidity and ease I've not gained with any other upgrades save the move to balanced power. Both complement each other.
And I really prefer to spend my hard-earned £s/$s with individuals I feel comfortable with. |
Audiotunesx, a few years ago I went from running my system straight out of the wall to using a Burmester 948 power conditioner. I achieved a fantastic improvement in consistency, transparency, delicacy and detail retrieval, but something wasn't quite right - a sort of softening of the sound and clipping in dynamics. So a frustrating improvement and deterioration at the same time.
A couple of years ago, I investigated the benefits of balanced power, and took a bit of a punt - installed a dedicated consumer unit, high grade wiring and spur just for the audio/av system, and hard wired a 4kVA balanced power transformer into this from which the audio/av system is powered.
Frustration for about a month, with all the bass gone and treble burning my eardrums - this in retrospect I discovered was 25kg of cold copper in the transformer gradually warming up.
Then a month passes, and the sound transforms - all the delicacy, transparency and detail retrieval of the Burmester was retained, and surpassed, but now in conjunction with unlimited dynamics and preservation of leading edge of notes with full sustain.
Really getting that "after midnight" sound 24/7.
This is the rock solid foundation that the Entreq Silver Tellus/Apollo ics are building upon, and I really was skeptical that there could be any room for improvement prior to the Entreq UK dealer installing the rig in my system.
Wow, was I incorrect. Each step in upgrade (Silver Tellus grounding box with Eartha Silver i/c from preamp, then this Eartha Silver i/c changed to Apollo i/c, then addition of Apollo i/c from Straingauge energiser box (eff. my phono stage) and Apollo i/c from cdp, and next most likely two Apollo i/c's from each monoblock) has been a revelation.
I would summarise the improvements as a further reduction in noise floor from the already-low level achieved by balanced power, a solidifying of the soundstage - projecting it slightly forward and fixing it rock solid btwn the spkrs, relegating surface noise from vinyl to a layer well behind the soundstage to be insignificant. Amazingly, the effects amount to an increase in excitement and ease at the same time.
In my system at least, it appears noise is the limiting factor, and balanced power followed by Entreq grounding is really revealing what my system is capable of. |
Hi Agear. Personally I don't care how good Miguel's Troy is, his claims in the one communication I had with him were quite absurd. I don't doubt Troy is the real deal, but I'm really allergic to the hard sell.
Fraser of Kog Audio in the UK is quite the opposite, infectiously enthusistic for his Entreq product, but not at the expense of rational discourse.
Of course at only a quarter of the cost of Troy, there's nothing wrong with that.
And the Silver Tellus/Apollo i/cs really hold up, notes are seemingly carved out of the air - an analogy I've coined is that the soundstage pre-Entreq was wavering, almost like the distortion in the air you get with heathaze on a hot day in the desert, your senses dulled by the humidity. With Entreq, it's like a crisp, still morning where your senses really are finely tuned. |
Agear, we all have our standards, and what we're happy to expect from people, in personal affairs, and in business.
I can't begin to tell you what one eminent head of an audiophile amp company told me when I believed something was wrong with the piece of his equipment I'd had trouble with. Let's put it this way, he had a pretty low opinion of me. And he never got any more of my cash.
Miguel was adamant his approach was vastly better than anything out there bar none, and his claims of total superiority over any other solution in a situation he put fwd to me, even though he could not have had experience of this situation pushed me away from his product.
Or am I just to sigh and accept with no opinion? There are a lot more heated, negative opinions on this board than mine. Personally I am glad he seems to thrive and has many converts to his products. The joys of a free economy.
Btw, no discount on my Entreq purchases. |
Agear, the Entreq UK rep will be visiting me in a few days, I'll put some of these qs to him. |
Agear, not a definitive explanation but here goes. It may be possible that grounding occurs in two planes, the component via it's earth apparatus, and the signal itself. Hope this isn't BS. My area is so blighted by hash via light industrial motors and transformers, and mobile/internet aerials, and broadband 24/7 in my apartment block.
So, components may well be grounded according to specs that allow them to work and not be electrical risks, but the signal remains vunerable to adulteration.
I firmly believe Entreq grounding is somehow acting as a sink or conduit to siphon the excess rf/emi/other hash present in the signal, allowing the purer signal to be more robust hence providing a more unadulterated signal via the loudspkrs, and quantum leap up in listener enjoyment/involvement. |
Hi Msom, I've been fine, thanx for asking. Good luck with your moving/changes, always a scary concept, disturbing a well set up system.
Getting great results with my Silver Tellus and five Apollo grounding cables on the end of a newly-installed Westwick 8kVA balanced power transformer.
Next looking at the Entreq Powerus/Cleanus, and then possible upgrade re Atlantis add-on grounding box, and Apollo to Atlantis leads.
Balanced power and Entreq grounding continue to really open up the sound of my system.
Re my Hovland HP200 pre amp, no, I don't believe there is a phase reversal function. What's the aim of your q? |
Hi Msom, may I ask why you've gone for separate Minimus for each component? I'm running a single Silver Tellus, to which 5 components are grounded via Apollo leads. The UK rep rates this better than separate boxes.
Aiming for upgraded Atlantis cables and Atlantis add on box, but at a later stage when my power grid, i/cs and p/cs are fully sorted. |
Msom, that sounds like a thorough and forensic way to come to your final conclusions - trial and error with a purpose!
Interesting that you've taken to attaching some Entreq grounding leads to equipment chassis'. This seems to be the favoured way of Tripoint Troy, whereas Entreq prefer to attach to unused rca/xlr/earth terminals.
Personally I'm getting such great results attaching to various terminals to not bother investigating chassis grounding, so going to stick as is (five Apollo leads from pre/2 SETs/phono/cdp, to Silver Tellus). Once I finalise power grid set up and overhaul of ic/pc loom, I'll reinvestigate Entreq to poss upgrade Apollo leads to Atlantis leads, Atlantis add-on box to Tellus, and maybe Powerus/Cleanus.
Getting FANTASTIC results with upgrading grid to 8kVA balanced power. The best way I can describe things is that Entreq grounding has sharpened up the soundstage, enhancing detail, stillness, and dynamics; and balanced power has revealed the natural warmth and power of the system, imparting such bass grip and control, that major issues I had with in-room bass interaction are almost totally eliminated. An amazing feat. |
Msom, I gather you don't live in the US? Maybe the UK like me? What's the rest of your system?
I really feel fortunate to have discovered the Entreq grounding/balanced power direction. It's totally opened up my system and allows it to perform to a level I really didn't think poss. I'd spent years tolerating digital, but now find it's really closed the gap with analog. Lps still take pride of place, but I've had an epiphany in really respecting the potential of 16/44 rbcd, all because of grounding/balanced.
Currently about to max out balanced power by installing a dedicated consumer unit, running an Oyaide radial main from it to hard wire into my 180lb Westwick 8kVA balanced transformer, from which I'll run 4-5 20A Oyaide dedicated lines into Furutech rhodium plated wall sockets. Then I'll run components direct from the wall, with Entreq grounding running in parallel. |
Yes, it is a little confusing. Basically each different box has a different number of grounding terminals on the back, each terminal able to support up to 2 grounding leads ie ground up to 2 components.
So, the Minimus has 1 terminal which means that your integrated amp AND cdp/dac can be connected (if cdp and dac are separate, then obv. not all 3 can be connected to Minimus). Silver Minimus will also support 2 max, but with better results due to higher quality of unit.
The only issue here is that analog and digital components are best connected to separate ground terminals, which means that Tellus (6 components max on 3 terminals) or Silver Tellus (8 max on 4) will still be most practical choice. Minimus will always restrict you to max 2, and those are best both analog or both digital.
Quite a few customers start off however with a Minimus/Silver Minimus, usu. just to preamp to get the biggest idea of grounding positives, and add on extra Minimus/Silver Minimus at later date if they want to extend the grounding options, or onto Tellus/Silver Tellus. |
Goldeneraguy, I'll speak to the UK rep and find out for you. I'm quite the convert, sat with my arms tightly folded in skeptic mode to begin with, only one ground lead from preamp in place, to be replaced 10 minutes later to use those very arms to help lift my jaw off the floor!
The great thing is that the biggest change was the first one, so if you stick at this you'll likely be eternally pleased w/out having to go as far as I have over time. |
At the moment, Entreq don't have representation in the US.
Just spoken to the UK rep and he'll be happy to advise you/provide units if practical. His name is Fraser Robertson of Kog Audio and can be emailed on: scotty-42@hotmail.com |
If carriage is covered, then boys, I say 'go for it!'. Entreq has totally transformed my system, but in the most subtle yet demonstrative way possible (if that's not too much of a paradox).
It's not at all similar to eg putting in a new component, where the nature of the sound will dramatically change. It's more like whatever you admire about your system will be enhanced to the max. So I'd mainly recommend it if you've got to a point where you rate your system, and don't feel the need to upgrade components to a radically different sound, or if you feel there is a possible bottleneck in the sound re signal quality that could be removed. But if you want to find out where the sound you've worked all these years to get to can stretch another 50 percent plus, then Entreq grounding, and in my case also overkill balanced power are totally serious options to consider.
If you guys want me to illustrate how we integrated Entreq into my system, and my jaw dropping early experience, and a recent experience that totally cemented Entreq's quality in my rig, I'll be happy to do so in a future post. |
Goldeneraguy, I omitted to answer your earlier q. Entreq is applicable in the same way to all-analog or all-digital systems, or those with both sources.
Start off with running an Entreq ground lead from an unused input or output on your preamp to their grounding box. This is still the best bang for your buck in the whole grounding experience. If you want to go a little further, try a grounding lead from the earthing post of your phono stage to the grounding box. Here, YMMV - initially with my Tom Evans Groove Plus SRX phono stage taking a signal from a Zu Denon 103 and Transfiguration Orpheus carts, I didn't get good results. But when I upgraded to a Soundsmith Straingauge cart, a grounding lead from it's SG200 Energizer now really worked, and I find months later both options are irreplaceable. |
G'guy, the chain of command from base level up is, I believe: Minimus, Silver Minimus, Tellus, Silver Tellus and Silver Tellus w/add on Atlantis box.
Minimus supports 1 component only, so if one was to restrict to a single grounding lead to eg preamp, this would be the choice, with the Silver Minimus having a greater performance envelope. Tellus supports up to 6 components, silver Tellus up to 8, with the Atlantis add-on box supercharging the effects of Silver Tellus.
If you were to stay at one component only, my recommendation would be to stretch to the Silver Tellus, and if you want to consider grounding your whole system eg pre/monoblocks/cdp/dac/phono/subs/distribution block, go down the Tellus/Silver Tellus route. |
Dragon, I concur that the prices can seem totally crazy and unjustifiable. In the UK at least, Entreq prices are c. a third of Tripoint Troy, hence easier to swallow.
I have no experience of Tripoint, but both it and Entreq are trying to address the same shortcomings in systems. All I can say to you is that the effects of Entreq grounding are beyond spectacular in my system, so much so that spending 2-3x the price of my system as is on component upgrades I don't believe would result in the same positives.
And I'm someone who's walked away from other expensive tweaks, finding more than a hint of snake oil about them. Unlike a lot of these, which spout "quantum" effects babble (was this term and "organic" ever so abused?), the principles behind grounding are rooted firmly in traditional electronics engineering and physics principles. It's just that other than Entreq and Tripoint, v. few are actually following thru on these. |
D Vibe, I'm just about to install an 8kVA 85kg Westwick 8k balanced power transformer. Together with Entreq grounding, my system has been taken to a whole new level. The cost of these upgrades is equivalent to a pre amp/pow amp upgrade in the scheme of my system, but the improvements go well beyond a simple component change.
Basically, if you like what your system is doing, this is a great way to go if you want to improve things to the max. |
Paul, I'm not privy to what's inside, but from what I can gather it is a combination of silver and copper plates and tightly packed minerals. Unsure how it all pertains to the neutral, earth and positive. The UK Entreq rep may fill you in further, email scotty-42@hotmail.com. I believe this all acts as a sink to balance impedances across those components grounded to it.
Enjoy your experience with it at your friend's place. I live in E. London, so if you'd like a second audition, feel free to contact me. |
Paul, I believe Entreq works at the level of the signal ground (hence the RCA leads that insert into spare terminals), Tripoint Troy works on the chassis ground (hence the leads that screw into the component bodywork).
Please post your experiences with your friend's Entreq rig. It's a little hard to do a simple a-b dem since the effects of Entreq take some time to bed in, even when reinstalled after a short break, but hopefully you'll get a flavour of what it has to offer.
Together with 8kVA balanced power, in my system, Entreq grounding has been totally transformative. |
Goldeneraguy, re analog, this was the only area not initially impvd by earthing. My Tom Evans Groove Plus SRX phono stage/Zu Denon 103R/Transfiguration Orpheus was muddied by use of Entreq, but grounding it's replacement, the Soundsmith Straingauge, via the SG200 energiser box, has been wholly positive. YMMV, obv.
Do contact Fraser Robertson via the Kog Audio UK website, to see if he can help you further, and put you the way of their US dealer, I believe one may be being set up. |
Goldeneraguy, a US dealer should be able to provide at the v.least a demo service/sale-or-return. I do know that Fraser set up similar sale-or-return for a client outside the UK, he's a 5 Star guy in this regard.
I'm confident you'll "get" the effects of Entreq grounding - once "heard" it can't be dismissed. |
I've asked Fraser to look out for your email. If anyone can help you, he can. |
Golderanaguy, any help from Fraser? |
Ok Goldeneraguy, I'll do my best to answer your qs - fire away! |
Dragon, that's not so good. In all things audio YMMV, grounding just like anything else. I personally don't spend big $s/£s on anything w/out home demo/sale or return guaranteed. I'd recommend Goldeneraguy to def wait for trial facilities in the US before he considers trying it at home.
What are the circumstances of your exposure to Entreq? |
Tbg, I've been in quite a bit of correspondence w/Lloyd re this, and I'm sure he can answer your q. Indeed he runs both Entreq and Troy. Entreq signal grounding and Troy chassis grounding. I believe he feels they complement each other, bringing different attributes to the table. Imho, it is somewhat overkill to run both - by all means audition both, but choose one.
For everyone's info, the US Stillpoints dealer are the go-to guys for Entreq trials. |
Hi S, I wouldn't try connecting to the EquiTech just yet, I'll check w/the Entreq dealer on this. My biggest bang for $/£ was grounding my tube preamp. Maybe go for your headphone amp first? Worth experimenting on going thru the different options if you can hold onto the stuff for long enough, you can get varying results depending on the individual system/how "dirty" a particular component is.
Silver Minimis is deffo a worse option than Silver Tellus, since the additional grounding mass in latter is really advantageous, and ability to hook up multiple components l/t is more flexible than just the max of two poss w/Minimus.
Btw, what was your issue w/the Westwick? In the UK there is little chance to hear Equi=Tech, Westwick is the only high end way to go. |
Simon, interesting link. I've actually plumped for the top of the range Westwick 8kVA unit, custom built w/10 o'l's hard wired, meaning I can use it as in effect an over specced distribution block. It's 65kg+, and 8kVA, so not far off Mike Lavigne's 10kVA Equi=Tech. I wonder if you'd heard this would you have plumped for the Equi? No sweat, it sounds like it's been wholly positive.
So, does your Equi have sockets hard wired into the back of it? If it does, grounding it via a mimics or Tellus might still not be the way to go. My final configuration is to use a Silver Tellus, up to 8 Apollo leads from my components, then to plug an Entreq Cleanus into a spare socket on the Westwick, and in effect ground this combination back to the S. Tellus via another Apollo, audition early next year.
So, my strong recommendation is to either a-b Minimus v Tellus (pref Silver) w/an Apollo from whatever equates to your preamp, and take it from there.
You're welcome to pop over and chill out if you're visiting London and have the time. PM me. |
Simon, do post your thoughts here. I don't want user experiences to be too limited to just me and a few others.
I still contend Entreq grounding is a revelation, that uniquely of all major upgrades, leaves the voicing/character of one's system UNCHANGED, but maxes attributes like low noise, stability of image, texture and low fatigue, so that the voicing/character is wholly strengthened . |
