EMT 927 vs. Micro Seiki 5000 or 8000 - different?

Dear Lewm: +++++ " Does anyone know what is so special about the big M-S turntables, apart from their obvious build quality, which can after all be matched by several of today's high end belt drive turntables? " +++++

IMHO there is nothing especial other than MS was one of the TT heavy weight BD design " pioneers " .

I agree with your friend on " "good" but not mind-blowing " TT and IMHO several today TT's are better and more neutral than the MS.

I had my first " encounter " with MS through an USA japanese audio items importer company named Japanese Stereo that was located in LA ( I think in Wildshire Blvd. ). The model I saw the first was the SX-8000-II and I was no less than " shocked ": beautiful machine when in those times I was playing with Technics SP10s and Denons DD TTs that against the MS looked like " baby's toys ". I never had the money to buy it even that Japanese Stereo had it very good prices. I can't remember the 8000 price but the RX-1500 full equiped ( vacuum plater and the like ) was for 1.3K.

Btw, was through this distributor where I bought my SAECs/Audiocraft/Goldbug/Koetsu/Highphonic/etc, etc japanese tonearms, cartridges, mats, clamps and the like.

Japanese designers trusted on heavy weight TTs, I think that the heaviest was the one from American Sound with a 50kg on the platter alone where the biggest MS has " only " 28kg.
The Final Paruthenon named here weights 140kg and that from AS 170kg. Seems to me that these people were " crazy " about heavy weight and its influence on TT quality performance.

I'm not with that heavy mass used to damp or taking away " resonances/vibrations " ( of course for speed inertia. ) and I think that even today several TT designers and persons that posted here does not find out yet where precisely reside or which is main factor/ characteristic for a neutral TT: heavy mass can't do it, at least is what several TTs shows and showed till today.

+++++ " The motor assembly seems quite large but probably in part due to the incorporation of an elecronic drive system. " +++++

the motor it self was build by a Matushita group company and the TT controls design inside are not first rate, the weight seems to me need it to compensate for the heavy TT platter. Some today TTs comes with a stand alone motor and separate TT control/electronics.

I can tell you that for almost any person that never been in direct " touch " ( other than readed about. ) with the MS ones and bought it IMHO his first impression will be as mine: WOW WOW and certainly that that WoW will translate on a non-true WoW " feeling " about its quality performance level. After the time people learn about and then put these mahines where it belongs against other TTs. Well there are persons either that never learn.

I for good left the MS audio " stage/step " behind and follow " the road " in front/forward: the life is short.

As always only an opinion.

Regards and enjoy the music,
Raul.

Dear Thuchan: Agree, I'm not an expert on MS I'm only a music lover and an always learning and in " movement " audiophile.

Are you a MS expert?, yes? : well, what makes do you " convert " in a MS expert against a " rockie " like me? what do you mean with a " well installed 5000/8000? are you suggesting that mine was not " well installed "? why is that?, please explain me I appreciate your advice seriously. As you know I'm always ready to learn and improve.Thank you in advance.

Btw, could be /is there any " tiny " possibility that things are the other way around and you did not learn yet enough on the MS whole subject?. I understand you like the easy to mount a tonearm through the MS units but for example in the Acoustic Signature TTs is in different way similar easy but this TT characteristic has nothing to say when we are talking of neutrality and quality performance level or maybe you think that the flywheel makes the difference. I don't know that's why your advise is mandatory.

Anyway, waiting for your learning ( and I mean it. ) answers as other MS owners I think are waiting too. Many of us participate in this forum to share our audio/music experiences and learn from other people audio/music experiences.

Regards and enjoy the music,
Raul.

Dear Dover: Yes, high mass help to speed stability especialy on BD designs and you are totally right: power supply makes a difference and the MS ones are not great ones, I have to modified my unit and improved but my take is the same with the MS TTs.

I never had the opportunity to heard your Final TT but that " sine wave generator " for those old times means a lot in that power supply design contrary to the MS ones. Today Acoustic Signature TTs works with similar power supply Final characteristic but this is 25 years after/latter!! my hat-off to Kitamura San.

Regards and enjoy the music,
Raul.

Dear Dover: Just curios. I understand that Final marketed in Japan a phono cartridge ( I think with an integrated headshell and I think an expensive one. ) that was very well regarded as something truly special.
Do you own this cartridge? was Kitamura its designer or that cartridge is a different " Final " manufacturer?

I disturb you because there are not many ( only a few. ) Final products owners as you are so a first hand experience always is a learning one.

Regards and enjoy the music,
Raul.

Dear Thuchan: Even that you don't give your answers yet I would like to add ( for you take in count with your answers. ) why you follow that myth that using a thread is way better than a rubber belt with the MS TTs: could you?

Thank you in advance.

Regards and enjoy the music,
Raul.

Dear Dertonarm: I never had on " hand " the Melco that I assume was the ones made it by Maki Engineering Laboratory Company. I don't know other that its heavy weight how could compare against the Final or other today top TTs.

A Contest ( as you name it. ) with main heavy weight TT characteristic means IMHO almost nothing about quality performance level.

Permit me to ask you: what is your " take " here?

Regards and enjoy the music,
Raul.

Well, maybe this could help to other persons to figure it:

http://www.google.com.mx/search?q=melco+turntables&hl=es&prmd=ivns&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=2vnCTduVJOvKiALU642wAw&ved=0CD4QsAQ&biw=1360&bih=634

R.

Dear Thuchan: Deal, but something that disturbing me a little is: what could you do with out your beloved great audio system? where your " life " goes? and after my opinion no one will be interested to buy it.

No, I think is better that I be there with out given my MS opinion: don't you think?, our hobby is not only an important part of your and my life but a critical one.

Btw, seriously for all of us: what if our each one audio system suddenly " disappear " and we can't any more enjoy music at home like today? how could affect you this hipothetic " fact "? do you already thinked?

Regards and enjoy the music,
Raul.

Dear Dover: I owned that 13D but with stock body, very nice performer.

If you like the Shure cartridge ( as back-up ) then try to find a 140HE, recommended.

Btw, whom is your source cartridge re-tip?

regards and enjoy the music,
Raul.

Dear Dover: +++++ " My turntable speed never changes so I only check it once a year or so " ++++++

for a BD: WoW!, this speaks a lot of your overall TT design, build quality and excecution of the design. Not many BD TTs I know can share that statement and I know MS can't match it.

I readed somewhere that you was an audio distributor/dealer ( right? ) and I would like to ask: when was that? and which " names " do you carry on?. Thank you.

Regards and enjoy the music,
Raul.

Dear Geoch: Agree, speed stability in the " short time " is the main problem/target/issue for TTs and what we choose on it.

DD makes " things " really well on that subject. You DP-80 is a good example, I can't talk on the Thorens one because I never heard it in my system but I take your opinion as " mine ".

Regards and enjoy the music,
Raul.

Dear Geoch: I'm with you, the very " short time " speed stability is more important that that long year.

IMHO this characteristic in a TT is " elusive " in some BD designs and less in a DD one like your DP-80.

Regards and enjoy the music,
raul.

Dear Nandric: IMHO only an audio myth ( I mean with heavy mass TT designs. ): not proved theory.

I tested ( posted somewhere at least twice. ) that myth not with one cartridge running but with three cartridges running at the same time with no speed minute changes in different recordings and at different position in the Lps: near the spindle, outer tracks and in the middle.

Even, now that I remember, I made other tests where I changed the cartridge VTF using it at maximum ( on its specs. ), I run too a test with the motor switch-off and even with the platter with out " belt/thread " to test its time to stop.
I really made several tests, for different reasons, and the cartridge drag when in playback did not showed influence. Where I detected influence was with out motor/belt and even differences ( tiny tiny very tiny ) due to a diffrent cartridge stylus shape and VTF.

Regards and enjoy the music,
Raul.

Dear Jaspert: No doubt about the froces involve on that stylus/LP friction ( Newton Law. ) that exist. Fortunatelly IMHO the " ears " can't detect it.

Regards and enjoy the music,
raul.

Jaspert. The video did not showed but it could be interesting to test what happen/differences at middle and inner grooves too.

Regards and enjoy the music,
raul.

Good lawyer.

R.

Dear Logeen: Are you saying that in the Walker TT can we detect that speed non-stability due only by the stylus drag?
and are you saying that DD TTs like Technics needs adding " motor controler " to achieve shor time speed stability or is a misunderstood from my part?

Regards and enjoy the music,
Raul.