Bobby is making me a set of Merlin TSM-MXs's, which is the latest version, in ruby red. The wait is something like 15 weeks and I still have something like 12 to go!
I bought the Stingray II based on Bobby's comments along with his buddy, Rich at Signature Sound. A lot of people echoed their approval for the match.
I was not planning on spending a fortune on wires. Cardas SE9 is supposed to be very good and I'll probably buy them for starters. I've got a lot of interconnects in my house and I'll mess with those before buying something else.
Rob |
I've heard the Wyred gear and it's quite good, but I feel there are a lot of good amps at that kind of price point. The Emotiva gear comes in at 1/3 the price, which is more than "bang for the buck." It's practically unheard of in the industry. When I hear Bryston or many others in the 2K plus range I'm rarely impressed. My opinion is that they are really no better than quite a few less expensive amps and worse than some. Of course a big factor is taste and the vast assortment of pre-amps certainly confuses these comparisons. It's almost of no value to compare two amps unless all of the associated gear and even the rooms are the same.
Rob |
Nope...that's why I have a brand new Manley Stingray II breaking in as I type. I'm trying to put 200 hours on it before my Merlins are delivered.
It's a wonderful amp.
Rob |
Plato, the unit you mention is only 125 WPC, while the Emotiva unit for 20% less offers 300 WPC.
Quite a difference, especially if you've got some tough to drive speakers or a big room.
A more reasonable comparison would be the ST-250 against the Emotiva UPA-2, which is also 125 WPC and sells for just 299.00. So as you can see Wyred is nowhere near the price point of Emotiva for comparable products.
Emotiva also sells a monoblock XPA1 for 999 where Wyred sells their slightly higher powered model for 1200. I'd say that they are in direct competition on the mono blocks only.
Rob |
I've also heard both and I find the Wyred too bright for my tastes. I heard the Emotiva with the Rogue pre and felt that it was a nicely balanced combo.
Unless you try a variety of pre-amps it's unlikely that you'll fully know the sound of an amp. And that goes for the Wyred as well, which I only heard with a Onkyo processor. Perhaps it has a lot more to offer.
Even an old Carver amp can sound quite musical when mated with the right pre, so I'd have to conclude that you had a pretty poor pairing with Emotiva.
When my XPA-3 is all setup I'll post a more "serious" review. I've got a new Manley Stingray II which is far more musical than either, so we'll see how they all stack up and I'll even throw an old Adcom into the mix.
Rob |
I'm still shaking my head at you replacing 1.6s with TSMs......>>>>
The Maggies were great, but they were a drag to move around, plus I was facing too many mods with them. The Merlins are every bit as good or better right out of the box and they are easy to move around. Believe it or not the Merlins disapear every bit as well, sound smoother and have an upper midrange clarity that eluded me with the Maggies.
Still, I probably would ave kept them except that I wanted a speaker I could move around a couple of times per week. The Maggies with Mye stands were a bit much. Great speakers and I'll own another pair down the road because I did like the sense of proper scale they gave on some recordings.
Rob |
Regarding "moving around" it's a way of life in my theater room. They HAD to be moved out of the way whenever we used the screen and with the filled Mye stands they were VERY heavy and tough to move...bulky as well with the stands.
Without the Mye stands it was a lot easier, but that's giving up a ton of performance without the stands.
Not only can I move the Merlins and stands easily, I can even bring them upstairs into my smaller listening room if I want. That was a project with the Maggies.
Rob |
I've heard more than one of the Wyred amps, none were brand new. The Wyred is a nice enough amp, but I don't hear a major (or even minor) sonic advantages over Rotel, Emotiva or Outlaw. They are all good, but flawed in varying ways. The only amp in that price group I felt took it to a somewhat higher level was my Odyssey.
This evening we tried the Emotiva out using a Denon receiver as a processor. The movie was the Blu-ray of Avatar. The sound quality was HUGE, powerful and extremely detailed/articulate. I doubt I could tell it apart from a Rotel 1095 in the front channels.
Next we left it hooked up to the receiver and used a Verve CD of Billy Holliday as a test disc. Though these recordings are old, they image beautifully with good gear. I've really been enjoying the amazing image created by the Manley Stingray II even with my theater speakers, which are Def Tech BP7004s. The Emotiva brought out the same detail as the Stingray, but failed utterly to come close to the imaging. Using a Rogue Metis pre helped, but still fell short of the Stingray. To be fair the Stingray cost 5 times more and the Emotiva has only had 10 hours of break-in.
It was bought for HT usage and I'm already VERY impressed. I'll post a followup when it's broken in, tested with another pre-amp and run with the Merlin TSM-XMrs. My initial impression is that the Emotiva is a terrific HT amp. For music I'd probably go for something better, but amps from Wyred, Rotel and a few others, if they are better all, are simply still to low in the food chain for serious musical reproduction...at least for my tastes in the low end of high end!
Now there's a snobby statement! I've become quite the elitist with my Stingray tubes aglow....
Cheers,
Rob |
So how many times has your Odyssey amp been shipped back to Klaus?>>>
Never. I have a friend with a set that went back though...for conversion to higher end monoblocks.
Odyssey is a fantastic because they are superior to most in the under 2K range (that I've heard) and you're not stuck with them. You can upgrade them instead.
If something does go wrong....your have a LONG warranty and Klaus will even upgrade the amp for you making it a happy occasion.
Rob |
UPA2 is quite a ways down the food chain from a pair of UPA-1 Monoblocks or the XPA series from Emotiva. I use a UPA-1 for rear channel. I find it the least musical amp from Emotiva, though the value is insane and coupled with good associated gear it still does very well.
Rob |
Well, as you can read, both Emo and the W4S have fans. Two points. Not all Emo amps are great sounding. The 200 watt monoblocks are the most musical and at their best with 8 ohm speakers. A tube pre-amp works very well with them.
Amps like the XPA series are more suited for home theater, but sound surprisingly fine with the Rogue pre.
In the price range of the W4S I prefer several other amps, such as the Odyssey. In the Emo range? Forget it.
Rob |
Between my friends and I we've used 4 Odyssey amps or 5 if you want to count monoblocks as two. The only issue is the blue Odyssey light blows easily!
Beyond that no problems nor have I heard of any unusual frequency of failure anywhere. That all said the Odyssey amps are quite special providing a better midrange than the W4S amps I've heard (Halo series mainly).
The Odyssey is backed by a LONG warranty so it's hardly the end of the world if something does go wrong. And Klaus is always ready to mod an amp to a higher spec. He's a great member of the audiophile community to say the least.
Rob |
He IS in the minority. I have spoken to many owners and problems are pretty rare for a product of this type. The fact that an older amp can be upgraded or changed into a monoblock and so on also adds a lot of value when compared to most amps in this price range.
It is also a SS amp with a high end ability that rivals some very expensive company.
Rob |
I'm no salesman and I actually prefer several amps to the W4S, including the Odyssey Stratos.
BUT....that's not to say that the W4S is a poor amp. It's excellent and my preference for other amps are not related to anything about the W4S that should be contrued as any more than a choice based on "taste."
Keep in mind that comments on amps are among the most highly suspect as it takes a variety of associated components to truly determine an amp's "quality" and "character."
Cheers,
Rob |
Yup...and so it goes with everything these days. We're pushed into thinking that the latest greatest whatever is a must....or we're missing out on being the true sophisticated souls we're meant to be!
Rob |
Emotiva has very little competition to deal with at their price point. It's products from Rotel, Parasound & Outlaw that they really compete with. As I've stated before, for home theater applications I find the Emotiva gear does very well against amps and processors costing 2-3 more. Placing them in higher end systems for music will reveal more limitations, but again this hinges heavily on associated gear. The differences in quality of musical presentation between the Emotiva XPA-2 and the Rotel 1090 was much smaller (with no clear winner) than with the tube powered Stingray.
Rob |
I get a lot of heat for making comments...like the one I'm about to make, but....
I've had some far more expensive SS gear in my systems and heard quite a bit of the megabuck stuff. My previous system was Odyssey Stratos, Rogue Pre and Magnepan 1.6. No other amp impressed me the way my new Manley Stingray amp does. It created a soundstage and sense of tonal reality that the SS gear could not manage.
By comparison the SS gear, ranging from 1500-5000 dollars had improvements that were hardly absolute. Yet the 20 watts coming from this set of tubes does things I would never have believed.
So I built two systems. The theater system runs on tons of power, 6 amps, multiple subs and SPL to make a clock run backwards. But it's the small amp mated to a pair of Merlin speakers that tends to impress people the most.
If you really want to take a musical step forward in your system, try tubes.
Rob |
It's funny that a thick skin is even needed, but there are some basic truths about audio that I've learned over the years.
1) People who spend more don't like to hear that they didn't have to.
2) People rarely get anywhere near the potential from their gear nor properly understand how it differs from the competition.
3) No speaker on the planet at ANY price sounds like live music.
Sheesh. People hate hearing that stuff! Quite recently there was a fellow who actually started e-mailing me "attacks" because I found my Merlin speakers superior to his. He just could not let it go and eventually started insulting everyone who didn't agree. He got banned! Then he started the same thing at another forum.
In the end the only thing that matters is this: Do YOU like your audio system? I don't care if it's Merlin or Bose or KLH; if it makes you happy and plays music that makes you smile....who really care what some guy with 200K worth of tube gear thinks? Chances are he's listening to GEAR and not music.
Listening to Billy Joel's stubby fingers dance across his piano is amazing on my boat stereo, car stereo or Ipod, and not more so on my expensive system. Know what I mean?
Cheers,
Rob |
