Richardkrebs: In response to your inquiry as to my tt project.... it's at least a year from reality. there won't be much new ground broken here, I'll be using my current VPI platter/bearing, there will be prescision engineering in all phases, a (4) pod design, (motor, pulley/pinch roller arrangement, tt plinth, ET pod.)
My hope is the "anal" focus on prescision mating of parts and excecution will be a plus. The use of differing materials from wood to high tech options. I'll either fall flat on my face or end up with something very special. |
Dover: The granite surface plates vs. a CNC machine = my version of "shade tree mechanics" in my world. |
Ct0517: Sorry, should have replied earlier... Holy Testosterone Batman!!! |
Richardkrebs: I have aquired the necessary equipment and will be constructing my TT in my own shop. Your comment regarding constructing the arm pillar and pod ( assumming we are talking about the same thing) as one, doesn't seem necessary to me and in fact seems a step backward, IMO. I choose to go with Bruce's original design as much as possible, bowing to his expertise on design and knowledge. I will be using the 'granite surface plate' to have an accurate 'plane' as a reference for the build and final placement in my system, not for actual use in my system. The arm's final trueness will have at least one separate adjustment, the 3 point ET arrangement. My focus is to make each of the four portions 'true' in every step of the build process, all the while knowing I have multiple other options available in my personal system/set-up that I can count on to get me to the 'true' point. My personal goal is perfection, then knowing that isn't always acheivable, I can rely on the ET adjustment/ arrangement.
I have to say that as regards to using acrylic as a platform for the vinyl record and in my own system, IE: the armboard, I do agree with Fremer that this isn't the best material for great transient response, tight, controlled musical bass @ realistic sound that I crave. Of coarse this is solely from my own system experience and personal preference. |
...... another important factor. I, as I'm sure you all are aware, from decades of listening, the effects of certain materials on sound quality. This is where most of us have experience that novices don't or will have to wait for, until these important factors can properly be evaluated in your projects. This is where time listening, experience, and most of all, patience is critical in going forward with aftermarket projects. |
An lp recommendation... Jason Isbell "Southeastern". STRONG! |
Wow, when I post, I post!
If this has been addressed in the past, I apologize... I notice some choose to "hang or mount" their counterweights from the top of the I-beam. I choose to hang mine from the bottom.
In the past, (a long time ago), I A-B'd these settings and preferred the way I do it. From my logical standpoint, I would think hanging the counterweights below the center of gravity, from the spindle's point of view, would be the preferred method. Any takers? |
Hi all.
I really want to respond to each & every post made since my last one. However, I feel I need to preface any remarks I make from now on. Here is that preface:
(1) I've tried to make my journey as open as possible. Over the years, I've read & DO read others' postings, and while I don't doubt their relevance, I wonder if (my) postings of late have any real (relevance) to you all. I say this because it seems to me they have "divided responses", and are taken out of context.
(2) I'm a passionate Audiophile! I believe there is most likely no doubt about this. This passion is the essence of all of my postings.
(3) I do realize that I lack basic social skills that are prevalent in my posts. This lack of social skills should (I hope) not be taken as a lack of respect for, or a lack of the fact that I realize what others may be saying in regards to my posts and (my not taking their opinions to heart).
(4) I, unlike several here, opted to make most, if not all, of my current system, ( in the past), a part of those posts. I currently have deleted it. I believe that this was/is important!
(5) I've had other posts recently that have come under intense scrutiny.
My goal as of late has been to bring forth subjects that others dare to talk about and in all honesty, IMO, (this site has needed some influx of pointed questions) that have enough relevance in order to bring out some "member thinking".
My latest post regarding the affect or non-affect of differing materials on the audio signal has intrigued me.
Frogman's latest post regarding this, leaves me wondering if he really understands or has ever had personal experience in testing differing materials. I have always respected his even, controlled, knowledgeable opinion, as I've referenced in earlier posts, also, (in my personal emails to him, I've referenced this fact as well), but I have to wonder regarding his latest post, (that seems to cover every aspect, whether it's pro or con, on this subject), he seems to want to make his point, regardless of whichever side one comes from!) IMO, he's covering ALL bases.
I feel it is now necessary to make this a pointed question as follows:
(1) Frogman references my DIY sandboxes and there lack of, IMO, their ability to deal with vibrations. Frogman states that the vibrations are most likely to be dispersed as (heat). This either, may be fact or most likely be fact or may not apply at all... the FACT is that in (my) personal tests that I tried to describe, I was not at all impressed and in the context of my tests that I decribed, my DIY sandboxes failed. I have to ask Frogman the following... please enlighten me/us all, the projects you've undertaken/experienced, in which your comments would have greater relevance? A simple question?
(2) Frogman's post regarding Richardkrebs' use of epoxy in the context of (his) project... this is really what I was trying to express... that, it's all in how we use materials in a certain project and how those materials respond in the (way we use them), that ultimately makes (the difference) in the (context of our own system).... Am I, so, out of the social conscience, that my earlier remarks are taken any other way? If so, I really want someone to explain this to me. Please.
(3) I tried to ask/inquire of others regarding their projects in order to gain (insight), but I don't feel I really received any helpful answers. I thought my questions were relevant and my willingness to provide my past projects' information would have garnered a response from those who were "like minded". I seem to have failed here as well.
(4) Frogman says that , and I'm paraphrasing, that he feels that it's not possible to "overdamp" electronics or cables. I completely disagree!. It really seems that even Goeffkait's project reveals this, moreover, my years of applying various amounts of differing materials on my, and in some cases, inside of my audio equipment, has left me with the complete opposite result from Frogman's comment/results. I'd like to know more about Frogman's testing/history that has led him to make these statements and that others' follow.
(5) Frogman's question: "How can eliminating spurious vibrations be a bad thing?" Here's how. In my system, over years of testing various materials, in various components, I find that statement to be more than "half-hazard" and one that really isn't worthy of Frogman's apparent knowledge and intellect....
In one of my past subwoofer experiments... A Mirage ,single 12" woofer box, using a small amount of lead shot on the top revealed good results. (The best results were upon using brass cones on the bottom.) I found that increasing the amount of lead shot, muddied the bass, the bass was less musical. (Probably, twenty years ago). I'm currently performing similar projects, (that result in the same effect) now! This was, as I said, early on and have conducted more relevant tests but since we are starting from (zero), this is my first response/question to you.
So, Frogman, while I DO respect you, I still have to wonder, based on the above items, how you draw your conclusions and what history/projects you've performed that have led you to those conclusions? Thanks. |
Rugyboogie: If you set your mind to it, you can make a trough fairly easily. Get the appropriate diameter pipe. Cut it in half. Find an adhesive similar to the 3M and GO FOR IT! It's really not that hard. |
Rubyboogie: Sorry, I just assume others have access to the necessary equipment for these things. After cutting the pipe in half you could fashion an end piece. It can all be sealed by silicone. |
Dgarretson: Regarding your statewment about fashioning a tonearm wire from AN silver. That is on my list also. I'm seriously considering your "egg beater" design in the final product. Isn't that the whole point of these forums? To learn from others?........
A note. I'm considering drilling a slot on the opposite side of the ET armwand so one channel can exit from either side, thus a more stable tonearm wire set-up. IE: less opposing force, get it? I think it can be done without sacrificing armwand stability.
If you conceive it before me, I want the royalties. |
Well, it's 2:20 EST and no response.
My last post. I feel if we aren't referencing a specific lp, how in the heck can we continue to go on as if there is something else as our reference?
We can go on and on about this and that but in the end we come back to the music. I'm feeling that this is what some may be afraid of? |
Harold-not-the-barrel: I guess my diatribe was kind of my "swan song". I was kind of dreading any responses but was ultimately disappointed that there were really no responses.
For me, music reproduced well in my home is my life. It's what means the most to me. From other's non-response tells me I may be the only one with the passion I have deep within me. I am really sorry I am the only one here who feels this way. |
Hi guys, while you all are on this topic, I'd like to know if any of you have experience with the Jun-Air 16-25 compressor? I've had one waiting in the wings for a long time and it has one issue. It has the option/with a tank that captures excess oil/moisture. When it reaches the maximum pressure setting, it immediately starts expelling air, then at the appropriate low pressure setting, starts the process all over again. I feel like it's a simple fix if the solution can be identified. A stuck valve maybe? Any help will be verymuch appreciated. |
Ct0517
That sounds exactly what I'm experiencing with my Timeter!
The solution is: a local/or alternative for my Jun-Air.
What would these companies do without our issues?!
Thanks! |
Wait!, I missed something. Do you mean to tell us all, they have Home Depots in Canada??? |
Something has bothered me for quite a while. I'll ask the question and disappear.
A while back Frogman responded to a post I made on the subject of the regulator I am using stating that he was surprised I could hear the difference between my stated 18.5 psi and other's 19 psi.
I kept wondering why he didn't question Ct0517's ongoing use of 19 psi? Why question me at 18.5 psi and not Ct0517's 19 psi? This, to me, makes no sense.
I'll leave this to all of you.... |
Ct0517: Thanks for your going the extra mile on my compressor issue. This avenue would have been my next one. I have of late, been focused solely on very pointed issues and didn't take the time to inquire with the obvious source.
On another front. Regarding the end users preferred listening air pressure. I know you and a few others are set on 19 psi. I have varied but keep coming back to 18.5 psi. I find over & over again that I lose valued bass definition and weight. With my latest upgrade,a pair of Martin Logan Depth i, this is even more clearly defined. What is it you or others prefer going to 19 psi? There certainly could be the difference in system synergy/integration within one's room and end user's preference. |
Frogman: Your point is well taken and one that I failed to address: the possible differences in manufacturing processes of the wide variety of pressure guages. I do listen in a small room/nearfield which is conducive to my hypersensitivity on a wide range of issues. By the way, do you or does anyone remember the ET upgrades offered and reviewed in 1995 by Roger S.Gordon? He reviewed a (Montronix Acuflo Air Regulator). This is what I have, only the DIY version. It is way overdone for 'our' needs but the Montronix sold for I believe $400.00 then, I got the DIY for $150. In his review were the following:
Build-it-yourself-air pressure regulator
ET II Large diameter high pressure manifold
ET II Magnesium Tonearm
Damper trough
Bright Star Padded Cell
His conclusion for most Bang-for-the-Buck was the BIYS air pressure regulator. FWIW.
Ct0517: I ordered my 2.5 so many years ago and without the benifit of this forum that I couldn't tell you what mine is specifically built for. I actually emailed Bruce about this a couple of years ago and his only answer was that it is probably built for the way I'm currently using it. I guess this means no detailed maufacturer/sales info on file record. Anyway, all I know is what I hear and that's good enough for me.
Thanks again for your input on my compressor issue. By the way, as we exceed over 1000 hits here, I want the thank you for your vision and your extraordinary follow-through regarding this thread. It's easy for one's efforts to be overlooked. You are to be commended Sir! |
Dlcockrum: Thank you for the posting of the MA article.
On a different note... My system is sounding absolutely awesome! I hope this is a sign for things to come in this new year. |
Richardkrebs: My "low cost" way to smooth out air pulses to null and at the same time trap any and all moisture has seemingly been lost in this thread. For around $100 one can have it all in a small package, low maintainence, HIGH performance in an "all-in-one" product. The Motorguard filter... the M-30 & M-60, I use the M-30 in my stereo system as it comes with a mounting bracket and readily accepts the fittings we normally use in this application. If one wants to investigate there are user forums one can search on line. I highly recommend it! |
Ct0517: (While you all are on compressors),I finally took my Jun-Air to be repaired. I am excited about it's return and my thought to add the ability to expand it's capacity by way of an extra air tank. By the way, it's a 6-25 not a 16-25 as I mistakenly wrote earlier. |
Frogman & Ct0517: I feel the need to admit the fact I was wrong. Early on in this thread, there was a discussion regarding the sonics of "The Nightfly" lp. I've been modifying my wall panels and decided to replay this lp. My verdict is while it's obviously a digital recording, I can now listen to it and enjoy! Ahhh! CT0517, you were right, it was my room. |
Everyone: I now see that, based on your non-response to the postings I made, I need to make my focus elsewhere. It's sad that others don't share my passion for music. I'm afraid... (and I eluded to it earlier)... that my fear was the majority of you were more interested in equipment to reproduce music well, than a passion for music reproduced well and the software needed. My friends, there is a difference! |
Richardkrebs: I'm using the air regulator I previously posted... the Motronix knock-off, Schrader , model 35501030,
it does expel air, this is to keep any pulsing action to a minimum as the arm sees it. However, with the M-30, this is a non-issue.
My feeling is that when I receive my Jun-Air 6-25 back from repair, although it does cut off after building up pressure in it's tank/s, I'll be pleasantly surprised if there is any at all, sonic benefit, from this arrangement. I say this because I'm SO confident in the M-30 and it's filtering properties!! |
Richardkrebs: I finally introduced the Jun-Air 6-25 into my system. I had it modified to allow the use of an additional air tank. I'm still using my tried and true Motorguard M-30 filter. The only thing that has changed was taking my Timeter PCS 414 (a compressor that runs constantly)out and putting the Jun-Air in. To my surprise there is additional openness/transparency now. This results in greater frequency extension, dynamics and transient response. These compressors run extremely quiet, around 45db, and are known for producing 'clean' air. I'm very happy with the results. |
Aguser: A couple other thoughts: Is your tonearm wire run in a manner that allows the arm to move freely/no resistance at the lp extremes? Also, everything has to be very level. |
The difference I noticed comparing compressors is not night & day. It is however noticeable to me and I think a seasoned listener would notice. (This is a testament to how effective my Motorguard filter is) A lot of baby steps... in the end result in a more enjoyable, meaningful listening experience |
Ct0517,
We should note the findings of the many long time users here on this thread that take the ET to a much greater listener experience than even Bruce eluded to in his own manual. Those who have followed this thread closely will know exactly what I'm referring to. (Hence the "long term relationship")
There are several things that weren't specified in Bruce's manual. This IS the reason that this thread is SO valuable to me and to other interested parties!
(I'm ready for a long term relationship, if, and only if, I can find a female music lover that is committed to this arm!)LOL! |
To all: My 25 + years of experience in audio, all comes down to this: common sense, logic, & listening.
Regarding the ET arm
(1) Logic: It's design allows the user/listener to track an lp as the original 'cutter head' does. (This is important)!
(2) Common sense: (Refer to the comment above) It's very gratifying that two of my "points" are in sync with one another. This is not "by chance".
(3) Does your listening time, make you want to either, quit or put thoughts in your head about the "next" time you can listen?
When your ET is set up RIGHT, (this isn't a forgon conclusion") you will say to yourself, "DAMN GOOD!", 'ALRIGHT", "This is what I always thought it should be'!
These days, time and time again, I just want to plop down in my listening seat and let life pass over me while I soak in the MUSIC! Life can be good. For me, right now, after 25 years of system building... life is Very, Very , Good!!! |
Ct0517: "None!" How many other tonearm owners are advocating their virtues?!!!
OK, Here's my ultimate lp recommendation! There are very few times that all of the stars align. This/these are those times.
The was a label: Audioquest, from years ago....
Majic.........
Something happens when people just want the very best, forgetting about there personal interests.
This, my friends, are the lps that represent the "very best". It will most likely never be produced again!
The Audioquest label gave us some FINE lps!
I can only remark on the ones that I own.
Robert Lucas, "Luke & the Locomotives"
"Usin'"Mans's Blues"
Terry Evans. "Puttin' It Down"
So, what's the difference? IMO, It's obviously the recording engineer, "Joe Harley", plus the total lack of compression!!!!!!!!!
Even the bass has noticeable transient response! Can you say that about any current,recording you are currently enamored with? Hell no!
If you have the time, seek these out! |
Harold-not-the-barrel: I submit the following, I "needed" to get the above (out of me), you see, it's the on-going conversation I have within myself....
First & foremost... I love my ET arm, it will always be the mainstay of my system. The ET... for me, it's like some feel about the vinyl playing ritual itself. It's the CONECTION to the music, the connection to your system, the connection that brings so much enjoyment from this hobby, or dare I say, life.
For me, If I'm "involved" with my music playback system, I'm much more connected, much more (a part), much more invested.
Music IS emotion! |
Being anal has it's rewards.. at least in audio...
All my talk about "level", and other things....
When one gets to a certain level in audio, this becomes important! Somehow, all of this kind of this talk is somewhat "otherworldly" until, one get's to a certain level of audio reproduction. Then and only then, does one see the "lightbulb" go off. (Maybe this is why one has to pay $$$$ for an accurately machined tt!) Of coarse it is!
Frogman: I agree with your assessment of Bruce's personality. I wish I could be that way. The important thing is that we realize this and build upon it. |
Frogman & others: An example of how Bruce deals with his customers: Years ago, I called him on a Sat. I was having issues with air output. He (never) left me feeling my issue was not important. We talked for at least 30 minutes. I was the one that decided the conversation had reached it's end!
I hope and assume he's trained someone to "take over" when he's gone!?
He may be of a breed that we'll never see again? Let's support him/his products while he's here. |
My mentioning of having to "ream out the spindle hole", got me to thinking. (Sorry).
We spend thousands of dollars on equipment. Then we see a need for (tt owners) high priced speed controllers. I hear no one talking about the lps that we so cherish, being pressed in the very way that most of the time gives a market for these high priced accessories. If you pay attention, I'd say 80% (conservatively) of the lps we purchase today are "off center". This is (the) very basic issue, that we, (as people who spend a major part of our live's, by time and treasure and as lp listeners), should be more vocal about.
My audiophile "toolbox": I mentioned earlier the Bosch level, this should be in every audiophile's "toolbox" as should an Exacto knife,(lp players only), for reaming out the spindle holes of improperly pressed lps. There, I said it. I keep this knife very handy at every listening session.
If at some point in time, I put an lp up for sale, and that lp has gotten this treatment, you will be the beneficiary. |
"The Book", Chapter one...
Music.. what is it? How does it connect with us? What is it about people playing instruments, reaching deep into their souls that, somehow reaches into our souls and then makes us "clean"?
This very subject could have been a novel idea for a dissertation.
The instruments are an extension of our "very being". The very basic feelings that are within us all. So, what does it take for these very basic instincts, that are within us all, to "come out"?
This question is essential to our understanding of who we all are.
These are the very questions I should have been asking myself back in the late 60's early 70's.
Is it time for Chapter two?...
No matter... I think that many chapters later, Bruce has found a way for us all to experience these unasked question, whether we realize them or not. |
"Audio Gymnastics"... Definition: in audio reproduction terms, IMO, it means a "passing moment in time" where one enjoys the sound one is hearing, however, this "passing moment" doesn't please in the long term.
We are all willing to make these momentary audio pleasures a focus, while "in the moment" very compelling, in the long term, "uninvolving".
This is a very compelling aspect of how we are drawn in to buying very expensive audio components.
Upon evaluating our life long audio pleasing "moments", we, if we are being honest, "WAKE UP", to the fact that we are just "feeding" the "machine'.
All we need to do is please ourselves, not what we feel, (not by other's standards, saying we should please ourselves).
This, my friends, is how some audio companies, feed upon our most basic, true, feelings. Yet, without much thought, we succumb to their knowledge of this and we "line" their pockets with our hard earned money.
Is there a "Book" 3 in the works? |
Harold-not-the-barrel: Here are the questions I should have asked...
(1) The marker you gave 'O'(I can't duplicate it), followed by mad scientists, .....
Why is it you and only you who have the courage to respond?
Why is it when (I), give from my heart, my feelings regarding the whole musical experience, regarding us , vinyl spinners,... no one, no one but you responds?
Is it the lack of passion for the musical experience?
Is it that others just want to respond to those who may have specific knowledge of equipment they own?
Maybe it's because no one really wants to address the main issue. That main issue is MUSIC. It's not equipment. It's not "mine is better than yours, it's not, who has listened to or had the opportunity to evaluate more eguipment...
Are any of you seeing my reason for this post?
There was a time, not long ago that I was intimidated by this whole process. No longer.
I think this is where I part ways with you all.
I just don't get it. |
...Without (a materials' resonant property,) there would not be very much substantive discussion in all things audio related. |
Hello People: I recently sent my Acutex to Axel in Germany for a rebuild. (1000 hrs +++)
According to him, the stock diamond is an elliptical. An upgrade, which I chose, is the Shibata diamond.
I'll, at some point, update on the difference.
It most likely will be quite a while. I'm having too much fun right now with me Dyna D3! |
Hello!!!
Coming out of my audio shell....
I've noticed lately that, the ARC/POST has an issue.
(This is an ongoing issue with the ET design)
If, you can look at your ET from dirrectlly behind. you'll notice the the arc block / post doesn't "square-up".
This is a disappointment! Bruce, (if you're) listening, you/I would appreciate a (CNC) type of mounting here.
This is where some of us, (experienced users) will have an issue.!
Slaw, out........ |
Sorry, I had to jump in.. "leveling the arm"
If you have Everything else level, all that is required is to have the arm over a record or over the platter and again (assuming everything else is level/accurate), just move the arm cueing lever up & down, being careful not to touch the platter. You will see if it moves in one direction or the other. Simple. |
another way is the following...
(This assumes you watch your arms movement as you lower it onto a record.)
If you have zero to little movement at the beginning of the record and when the record finishes, there is no "arm kick back", you've achieved greatness! It's not hard people. |
Since there is no standard for the run-out grooves on vinyl, each individual lp is different. The majority of lps have a less aggressive approach, (this is when one should never see any arm "kick back" at the end of a record). Some have a more aggressive approach and this is when no matter how level/true your arm is set up, you will get backward/inward movement, but it should be gradual if things are set up right. |
by the way, in my decades of owning my ET, I never acquired the set-up jig. A big waste of money.
Bigalt: Did you just say.. adjust the two leveling screws while the arm/cartridge was spinning on a record?
You are "dead to me"!!!!
There are so many things wrong with this method that I'll defer to the other Sharks.
I'm sorry, but I have more, way more feelings for my records than to even comprehend this action. You're "dead to me"... as Kevin from Shark Tank would say!
Of coarse, I'm having a little fun with you but please find another way!
Thank you! |
This is how I see it... Again, assuming everything is level, I prefer to use my method as it is taking into consideration playing lps in real time.
According to the correct way, as stated here and in the manual, I've done that countless times over the years. But there are other factors, wire loom and it's effect, warped/uneven records, damping methods.... having said this, there's really no way you can get perfect level given these unforeseen factors. This is why I choose my method that takes into consideration the arms movement under dynamic (playing an lp) conditions. |
Confucius say: "Become one with the arm" |
Ketchup makes perfect sense. (Although with the extreme adjustability this particular arm offers, you can adjust for a faulty set-up.) It has been my contention that if one uses this arm, (in order to get the maximum pleasure), you need to have your tt setup so you can visually see how the arm moves across the lp by looking at it from the left side facing the tt. (There is a whole lot to be said for the vision God gave us). A great check is to look at how parallel the spindle is with a lp while the arm is "half way" through it's travel when looking at it from the left-side-facing standpoint. At this vantage point, it's very easy to see if the spindle is correctly parallel to the lp surface. |
I don't mean this statement to reflect anything but as a point of passing on information.
There is obviously a learning factor with this arm. One of the Et's great abilities is it's flexibility/adjustability. This can be a negative or a positive. It all depends upon one's logical understanding of how anything mechanical works. The longer one lives with this arm, and the more that person realizes that this arm is really simple in it's overall design, the easier it will become to set up and use. The virgin user will see it as an obstacle to overcome, while the veteran user see's it as the extension of everything in life. |
FWIW: Here is my audio creed...
U = understanding
L = listening
L = logic
C = common sense
This has been my formula for my ongoing pursuit in all things audio. |
