Chris: I think I oversimplified my response to this now, I appologize.
Dgarretson: I looked again at your "egg beater" wire loom. Very interesting and "smart" execution. Question, Do the two 'outer strands' of your egg beater design, need to be slightly longer to acheive proper "force vector"? If so, does this have an effect on your balanced cable design? |
Chris, Yes, humour is only as good as it relates to us intimately. The best audio products are those that require and respond to our attention.
And now... for those 6 copies of The Who " Who's Next". lol! |
Chris: I think I see what you are saying. For clarification, I have two wall shelves, one supporting the motor and the other supporting the tt, phono stage and SDS. These are both connected to the same wall which has a huge effect on the sound, I agree. I tried to touch on this in my virtual system page. I do believe that it is a huge factor on how the system as a whole performs. I actually have plans for one day to 'rebuild this wall' to my specs. Thanks for reminding me of this, lol. Hope you enjoy the S Covlin. I got the 12" 45rpm maxi single recently. Sounds great! |
To anyone that has or is using the ET with a VPI acrylic armboard... Have you tried using it with and without the aluminum spacer that ET provides? If so, what were your impressions?
I personally have only tried it with the spacer, but now wonder if this could be a source of unwanted resonance using the acrylic armboard? |
Another point of possible resonance, to me.... As I've mentioned, I'm thinking of working on my current wire loom and will be building a new one also. The choice of cartridge clips is one of my concerns. I know that the Cardas are widely used and very economical. From my experience with these, they are so delicate that I have to wonder how much resonance they impart, especially after being unhooked from time to time. When I see a close up view of them, I cringe! I know in using the Acutex with it's angled pins, that I need something different from my current clips. The Vanden Hul look very promising. They seem to be made sturdier with an internal triangle shape that would grab the cart pins more securely (at three points) while the cable end still having the flexibility to slightly bend outwardly if necessary to allow enough wiggle room to mount the Acutex on the ET.
Any thoughts? |
Nandric: I thought of the Cardas deluxe, ( I assume you are referring to the ones with the spring retainers). I'm not sure of how they will work in my particular situation. Thanks for your input. |
One last thought....
No disregard to Frogman, ... I think anyone who listens to Donald Fagens "Nightfly" will hear easily that it is a digital recording! I LOVE the music but it's obvious!
I'm not a pushover, but I am obviously a lover of well recorded music and therefore have a definate opinion on what I hear.
"Nightfly" is an awesome lp, but does not sound "analog".
I love music, therefore, my thoughts.... I hope you all understand. |
Nandric: I took the plunge and ordered the Clearaudio. On Take Five Audio's site, they looked to be short enough to work well. Thanks for the tip for EBay.UK, which is where I ordered. |
Thanks guys! I am not confident at all when it comes to soldering these little tonearm wires to heavier gauge clips. I just received my AN wire... boy is it skinny! The great part about it is, it is extremely flexible, which will ultimately be a plus with an ET wireloom. I have at least 3 projects ahead of me, all having to do with the ET.
Chris: My post regarding the aluminum plate supplied w/ the ET was just to hopefully get anyone's experience w/or w/o the plate on a VPI acrylic armboard. My concern being that the acrylic may be too soft or not, to be used w/o the plate, and how each may have sounded. I have, as an upcoming project, a DIY armboard, so I'll most likely eliminate the plate as I'll be using a harder substance as the interface. That's my plan and I'm sticking to it, (for now) lol.
Any tips on soldering will be very much appreciated. I'm usually more likely to take my sweet time getting mentally prepared. |
All of the tips are greatly appreciated. Tinning both the wire and clips sounds logical. I've finally decided on armborad materials and will probably start that project first because of the familiar sound of my system at this point.
Frogman: In dressing the AN wire, did you twist the 4 wires together at any point for possible noise rejection? |
One other thing, It's my understanding that the insulation on the AN wire serves as it's own flux, therefore negating it's prior removal. Is this correct? |
Nandric, Are you an early morning listener like me? Cool! I'm a little concerned when asking me to "wonder" though.
Just to share something I've recently discovered. You may see a need?
When I changed to high pressure, during this process is when my Airtech tank exploded, I used 3 moisture traps to help eliminate the moisture I was accummutating in my line. ( By the way, I noticed that these had the additional effect of eliminating the pulsing from the compressor).
I ultimately ended up using, on the upstream of the final regulator, a dessicant filter. While this worked and allowed visual proof that some moisture was still getting through, it became an expense that I didn't want to incur forever.
Enter, toilet paper filter. Yes. Some of you may be aware, but I recently discovered it. Initially it seemed odd. After researching it on several forums, I ordered mine.
I'm sure there is a DIY of building this but I figure in my own time and effort into such things along with the other more important things I can do. Anyway, the intial cost and, in a low flow situation as the Et is, there will probably be little to no replacement filter needed. They can be removed to dry out as an option to replacement.
Even if one thinks there is no moisture in their line, it may be worth putting in, (a one time basis), a dessicant filter, just to try. |
Here's the website:
www.aircomparts.com
Click on filters, may be the need to follow again.
If you Google 'compressed air toilet paper filters', you can follow links to user forums.
My test is as I descibed earier, by using the disposable dessicant filters vs this one. Maybe not scientific but I'll stand by my 'end user' method. |
Dover's suggestion was a very good one that I failed to acknowledge. I appreciate all of the info I'm getting here. |
I've been listening to my DIY armboard and thought I'd try to give some of my impressions. Since it's totally DIY in nature, there's really nothing to compare it to.
The materials are 3 layers consisting of: the top plate is 1/2" Purpleheart (a very dense hardwood), the 2nd layer, which I bonded to the top layer, is 3'8" Baltic birch plywood, the bottom interface, (which I view as a combination of isolation/damping), is a 1/4" sheet of engineered wood flooring underlayment. (I purposely didn't bond this layer in order to have a way to evaluate other materials in this situation). I have no idea what the actual materials are but I'm sure it's a recycled product. I experimented with it when I was constructing my motor enclosure.
I'm a self-described "shade tree mechanic" of the audio world. I don't have any scientific means of evaluating materials, just soaking in everything I've seen, heard and read about over the years, then somehow, coming up with my own variations of the above.
I'm going to try and post pictures of it temporarily on my virtual systems page, just to let you get an idea of it visually. Since it's a prototype, I didn't go for a visually pleasing product overall.
The overall sound is very, very good. I realize that there are several changes here, one is the absence of the stock tonearm/armboard interface plate. I really wanted to get rid of anything that could be a resonance inhibitor.
I'm sure you all are aware of evaluating changes in your system and how they are 'recording dependant'.
Let's start with my standby recording in which I use to evaluate any changes I make. Shawn Colvin "Steady On". I can't say it's a reference recording but it meets my criteria not only as a damn good record, but it has most of all of the aspects one would need to evaluate every aspect of a recording, IMO.
The vocals on this @ (every lp I've heard since) are spot on. No hint of any unnatural element. Actually, the vocals seem noticeably more well integrated into the whole picture. I hear no loss of detail or inner detail. What seems to be of any concern at all is, on some familiar records, there could be a slight, "rounding off or softening" of bass, though no loss of bass lines. Upon listening to Van Morrison "Moondance" Direct Disk Labs, it sounds pretty awesome! I'm wondering, given all of the unknown changes here, if this may be a factor due to the removal of the factory plate mentioned above? I realize there's more going on here than that however.
I'm really intrigued by the end result of this project, given the unknown scientific nature of the differences I'm hearing.
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I meant to explain the most important aspect (IMO) of these changes. I am still getting the swag my head, stomp my feet, getting into the music, viscerol feeling that is so necessary to ultimate joy of enjoying music.
That says something?! |
Could this armboard be more receptive of the forthcoming AN wireloom upgrade? |
Yes, much fun. After more listening... Esperanza Spalding "Junjo". I'm realizing that what I'm hearing or maybe more experiencing is like being front row, maybe 10' from the stage in a small night club and besides hearing the music in a much more involving way, I can sense I see Esperanza's physical human form right in front of me. That is cool!
I can't thank you enough for putting me on to this cartridge. |
Chris: Since you started this thread....
I'm really thinking of going McGiver on my TT. Discard the base @ plinth, which will result in a separate armpod. I know you'll agree with that, me too. Anyway, this is going to take priority over all my other projects.
I wanted to take part in a Acutex listening group. Since you sent yours to Bruce and others don't seem to be anxious, I'm not that concerned about it anymore. Oh well....
Looking forward to hearing what Bruce may have to say... otherwise, I'll be developing my projects for some time. |
Hey Chris: I can recommend some more female artists if you like. If not here, send me an email.
I'm very happy you are enjoying the SC! |
Everytime I've put on either of my copies of "The Nightfly", I took it off before the 1st song was through!
This was for the purpose of listening to (enjoy), and I still couldn't get past it.
As you can see, I'm very passionate!
This is me. I think it's very important to let other's know.... |
Chris: I didn't go back to review posts... from memory, my initial response to "Nightfly" being a lp we could all compare was, "it is one of the first digital recordings ever". I don't think my system is state of the art by any measure. What I'm confident of is that when ever I put any of my "Nightfly" lps on, I can't listen through a side. My system/room weakness, yes, I'm perfectly willing to accept that. Most SD lps are made with prescion, that coupled with the advent of digital recordings is a connundrum. I can only report on what my ears tell me.
Dover: Thanks for your thoughts. I know now my wire loom is not the best. My thoughts on building a new 'separate' plinth, completely discarding the VPI base all together, will be a totally different venue for a separate armpod to be introduced. I probably didn't make this clear before. (I wouldn't be surprised if it isn't clear now). (A laugh is appropriate here). I have the AN wire waiting in the wing. Awesome! I hope.
You're suggestion regarding separating the crossovers from the speakers is one I haven't thought of but I sure can see the sonic value. I'll keep it in my to do list located somewhere in my mind. While I have some thoughts on 'better' stands, your idea is probably more cost effective with better results. Thanks. |
A comparison: Put on a copy of Aja,(77') then compare it to Nightfly, 82", I think you'll get where I'm coming from.
No comparison, IMO. |
Dover: Your idea has my excitement level on a 10. Thanks, I will pursue this, separating the speaker crossover. |
Sorry for overwhelming.... I meant to share that I recently went to a evening called Music Matters with my audio buddy. I was 10' from Fremer. Our 'analog man'.
He played some hi-rez files from his Continuum table. Some Joni Mitchell, Who, Rolling Stones.
These sounded GREAT! My friend remarked to me later how the rhythmic drive, propulsion of the music was apparent. That made an impression on me. The Stones as we all know aren't known for sonics, in this case, it was the best I've ever heard. The source was a MFSL lp. The tt in the room was a SME 10. A copy of The Band was played, the sense of realism was apparent.
I, of course made a fool of myself when I remarked about his giving a copy of "Rough Mix" to Classic for their reproduction of that lp cover. maybe I'm the only one who noticed. |
Chris, Thanks for your forsight regarding sending the Acutex to Bruce for his impressions. What more can I say... here are some excellent lps to check out...
(I hope there are "gals" reading this. Give me a call....)
Calexico/Iron @ Wine "In The Reins" an excellent, dynamic lp!!!
Neko Case "Fox Confessor...." Her vocals are awesome here, soundstage is somewhat diminished but an excellent lp.
Jenny Lewis @ the Watson Twins "Rabbit Fur Coat", Great!
The National "High Violet" not superior sonically, but a damn good record!
Birdy "selftitled", a 15 year old that can make you/me cry!
I could go on........... |
"High Violet" = this lp gets better with the resolution your system is capable of. A 'GREAT' lp IMO. |
Somebody stop me... Suzanne Vega "Beauty @ Crime" dynamics in spades!!!! |
Frogman: I really appreciate your "measured" responses! I, on the other hand, am quite the opposite. I know that I don't take the time to explain my position, so I'll give it a try here.
Steely Dan: I think I am much harder on them, given their history of making awesome records. The Nightfly ( I have two copies), while it is much more open (a somewhat general term I am using), it strikes me as irritating in a way that I can't enjoy listening to it all the way through one side. IMO, it sounds somewhat unnatural and slightly "in your face". My comparison, while not the best, to "Aja", I think is telling.
I have three copies of "Aja", none of them I'm confident are the 'best'. (This is where I may separate from some). I am very aware of different pressings and how they sound. My yellow label ABC seems to provide me with the most enjoyment of the ones I own. With regard to these 3 lps, they are, in my words compressed, (with this one having a wider sounstage), as are a lot of SD lps, but the difference between the analog era and the digital era is apparent to me. While I notice this difference and understand all of what I've laid out, I can sit back and enjoy "Aja" all of the way through. I cannot do this on "The Nightfly". This is even though I love the music! To me, it's all about the enjoyment, the escape, the freedom I feel when I take the time to listen.
I do want to say my comments about "The Nightfly" were in no way a reflection on anyone here, just my personal view. I hope anyone here who's willing to take the time to compare, will respond.
Here are a couple of very good recordings in my view:
Chris Isaak "San Francisco Days"--- sadly out of print
Mark Knopfler @ Chet Atkins "Neck @ Neck" -- again, sadly out of print.
Both worth the price necessary to have in your collection!
I hope everyone had a great Thanksgiving!
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....I tend to post 'in pieces'.
Just wanted to mention that the two lps I recommended earlier, even though they are or the 'digital age', in my view, are again examples of recordings done "right" as opposed to "The Nightfly". I can listen to them and enjoy completely. |
Frogman: I tend to agree with the jist of your comments. I do think you misread my assessment of "Aja", as I stated that it is compressed. Thanks for the effort taken to respond so in depth.
I know music is a very personal thing with me and can therefore only conclude that other's feel the same. It is an area that should be carefully discussed with other's feelings at the forefront. |
Just a general comment on the ET arm. I know others have had similar comments but here is mine. I've owned mine for over 20 years and just recently when I put in my new armboard I realized how quick and easy it was with an even greater degree of 'getting it right' the first time with even more accuracy than I've had before. It's a long term relationship that is well worth it. IMO. |
I appreciated Chris's song list earlier, I also agree with a few others there. I've come across an interesting item that I'm currently using. I plan on integrating it into upcoming projects.
www.DragonPlate.com. I'm using the PP core plate.
I can only state the remarkable sonic upgrade it has made under my EAR phono. You can decide for yourself.
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Saubmgc: I had a Medo AC120 (I believe) and while it performed well beyond it's stature, it did run hot. Still no trouble in the long run. It's been gone for quite a while. I'm running 18.5 psi with my current compressor. |
Nandric:
I'm an interested party in regards to a second Acutex 420STR. I love mine! If it wasn't for Chris I wouldn't have mine.
I'm enjoying my system more than ever now! No turning back. |
Chris: Regarding your recent reply about the 420str... I'm really not sure what I'm suppose to take from this. Frankly, I love the cart/the sound w/my system. I was the one that initially remarked here or to you privately that the cart pins/angle would be an issue. I'm not one that really wants to try cart after cart. when I find one that sounds this good, I'm good. ( I have thought of a way to remedy my much earlier cart/pin/overhang issue when I decide to take the time). I'm just having too much fun listening and frankly don't want to take the time to change right now. Too much good music, too little time! Yes, it's true! |
It seems we may be getting into symantics,?
Read between the lines......
My message has been, 'focus on the music'. Why do we need to discuss varionses between this or that component... at this stage... the most important thing is the music. May be, we should be discussing how many times we seach out new music?
Myself, I'm spending $300.00 + per month on LPs!
Yeah, that sounds right?! |
I'm bowing out, while whatever I offered, maybe, somewhat remembered. ( for what, that is for you to determine) Good luck to you all! .... remember the dragonplate... I'm not associated...> |
Bigalt: I tried to inject humor in my recent posts. I hope you realized this, also, I hope I haven't turned you off from this important thread.
At this point,(in this thread) it may be hard for first time users to get a say?
I'm sure we all will appreciate anything you need help with. |
Question regarding how the whole 'arm' structure/material and how it 'mates' with grounding, regarding tonearm wire?
Some arms are prewired with a 5 wire loom/ one lead specifically for ground. Why is this not needed/offered with the ET? How does magnesium serve as an electrical conduit? |
A note.... the level of information and experience here is remarkable! I'm glad to be a recepient. Keep it coming.... |
Dover-Chris, Thanks... I'm using a carbon fiber arm wand. My main concern in my upcoming tt design is the tonearm wire construction, and implementation. Some of you may remember, I have the AN wire in the wings, I'm not very confident on my skills as a small guage tonearm wire constructor. "Huh?" I've had several carts, throughout the years, mm & mc's, there is more noise associated with MM's. Should/could I try to run a ground from the armwand separately? My belief is that the CF armwand is a cf skin, on a magnesium or aluminum core??? The headshell is the same for all armwands??? |
Frogman: Can you explain the outer wire (it seems) that you have wraped around your armwand? |
John47: What? I assume you are making a statement. Can you tell me what or how it pertains to this thread? Thank you. |
Apologies for making this statement without reading all I've missed. (My father passed away and I had been his primary caregiver for several years, this has severely dampened my ability to give my (all) here for quite some time).
Just wanted to add... I've been using aftermarket 80W silicon fluid available at hobby stores with no sonic degredation,( paddle barely skimming the fluid)( I use an oral syringe to add/subtract fluid as needed, it's so much easier than fiddling with the paddle!), also using DuPont NLGI #2 w/ Teflon white lithium grease in my VPI bearing (ceramic ball bearing) to excellent effect. |
Richardkrebs: That is quite an unique design, so unique that it becomes very different from the standard ET design we are all using. In this respect there may be little use for any comparison. Therefore, I understand Ct0517's remark above. One thing I've been thinking about for some time for my upcoming tt project is machining tolerances. Checking my pricy platforms (Symposium, BDR) and even the acrylic top on my VPI plinth @ platter with a accurate level, there are enough variations in the degree of trueness that leaves me extremely conscious of the importance of the ability to machine as true as possible. This is one reason why I like the added flexability the stock ET design offers. |
Does your design allow enough adjustment for the differing heights of the various cartridges out there? How about overhang? Any adjustment for this? Of course, these two go hand in hand most of the time. |
I can only add: when I set up a cartridge, I try hard to set the appropriate VTA for said cartridge in the "neutral zone", (my term), of the arc block. The "neutral zone".... This to me is the (center range) of the arc block, where as if I adjust upward or downward, it will have the least effect on overhang, ( which I choose to reserve for differring weights of vinyl), this is in fact the center of the arc. Logic 101! Yes, I choose to make this adjustment for the differring thickness of vinyl records. What makes the ET such a great arm (for me)is for such a choice. Despite what is written in the manual, an up or down adjustment of the arc block results in another adjustment that needs to be corrected for overhang. There is no doubt about it! Yes, I'm probably anal. So what?! If we are going to the lengths we go to to extract every inth of information from vinyl, that to me is a definition of anal. Why Fremer chose years ago to suddenly forgo this, is beyond me and frankly deminished any respect I once had for him. |
Dover: I agree about the 3 point leveling of the ET. Your acknowledgement of engineering differing materials to the same level of trueness... This is what I'm getting into now, I'm aquiring a granite surface plate with a remarkably true surface that I'll be using to "true" each and every section of my upcoming tt project. The "anal" part of me would prefer that my project is as level/true as possible, all the while knowing I have the flexability/adjustability of the ET to take up the slack if needed! I know that no matter what one's skills are, they are for not if the 'right' tools aren't being applied to a project. You have some interesting points regarding overhang! |
Ct0517: Whoa! My testosterone runneth over. That armwand... did I miss something?
Is this a true one-piece design? I assume you've seen the 3D printed VPI arms... any thoughts? |
