Rfprice,
I can say that as of now if you order Elrogs from tubesusa.com(George Lenz) he'll ask about your specific amplifier in order to match operational parameters. Other vendors may now be following these same guidelines as well. |
Rfprice,
If you decide to choose the Takatsuki you won't be disappointed IMO. I had to replace one Takatsuki after about 15 months and they honored the warranty without issue. The Elrog ER is the best sounding 300b I've heard in my amplifier. The replacement pair as expected sound superb. As we all recognize, time with be the determining factor regarding these tubes. It is perhaps fair to say that EML and TAK are the "safer" choice at this juncture. They sound excellent(former 300b references for me), but I prefer the sound of the sublime Elrog(with direct comparison in my amplifier) and am willing to give them another chance.
Charles |
Amplifiers with gentle/conservative operating parameters are probably no problem for the Elrog. |
Hoping for a favorable outcome for all of us Involved. I will let people know of my ongoing experience and progress with my replacement Elrog tubes. This site is a valuable communication source. I feel committed to sharing the good news, and the not so good news when necessary. |
If Elrog has figured out the cause of the reliability issue causing premature tube failure this will be wonderful news for music lovers. I spent the weekend doing quite a bit of listening using the replacement Elrogs(what a pleasure it was). This is a special tube and contributes to superb music reproduction, really involving. Man, I sincerely hope that Elrog gets it all corrected, what a beautiful sounding tube it is. Come on you engineers! |
With continued listening to my replacement Elrogs ER 300b I've come to realize they sound "better" than my original pair. I don't know if better matching of the tubes to my amplifier's operational points is the reason or not. The natural sound and music reproduction is the best I've heard in my home to this point. "If" the tube durability can match the sublime SQ, this is the best tube recommendation I can offer someone. This tube is really something special.
Charles, |
I had initially ordered my first pair of the Elrog tubes through Trueaudio file.com. They were very professional and responsive, they had a backlog of orders and could not get the tubes right away, they kept me informed of the situation. After a three or four week period of waiting they contacted me and stated they weren't sure when these tubes would be available via the next shipment. They graciously refunded my payment for the tubes, I have nothing but good things to say about them and I wish them well. I did subsequently order my tubes through tubes usa.com and George Lentz was wonderful, fast and very responsive. When my original pair of these tubes failed, George was very attentive and supportive and was very
helpful in getting me the replacement tubes. Based on my encounters with
both of these companies I can recommend both for their service and professionalism. The Elrog in terms of sound quality is brilliant. As I and others have stated on this thread before, longevity and reliability will be determined over the following months and hopefully years.
Charles, |
I bought my Takatsuki pair direct from Japan with the 2 year warranty intact. My source was audio@amtrans.co.jp
, this was done in 2011. I believe Gary(Gsm18439) used them as well to buy his pair. I don't know for sure if they're still a source presently. |
Dracule1,
That purchase was 4 1/2 years ago and don't recall any import duty(it may have been factored in the cost I paided). The tubes were much less buying from them than Axiss who was the American importer at that time.
Charles, |
Hi Wyan001,
I know of others who tried Tak, EML and AVVT 32SL like I've done. As expected the ranking order varies amongst the listeners. As a group I felt that all three of them were excellent 300b options. I wasn't sure if the Elrog could exceed that elite trio but they did. Quite an achievement. I have heard nearly all of the highly regarded 300bs with the exception of the "vintage" version W.E. 300b. They're just too expensive for me to sample. |
Gary,
Yes, Amtrans is very solid and reliable to deal with. After placing my order(via bank transfer) the Takatsuki pair, they arrived in only 2 days from Japan. |
Wyan,
Do you rotate between your Frankenstein and First Watt J2 amplifiers driving your Voxative speakers?
Charles, |
Yes, the Takatsuki shouldn't be a problem at all, it adheres to all the Western Electric 300b specs. The Elrog with its thoriated tungsten filament has some deviations from the W.E. standard. I received some new recordings and listened to music for about 4 hours last night. I just love what the Elrog is able to do. There's no thought of audiophile /analytical evaluation. Nope, you are just engrossed in the music being played. IMO the sure sign of a good audio product.
Charles, |
Matthias,
I find it quite interesting that the filament material so positively influences the sound quality of a tube. All I can do is confirm what I'm hearing, beautiful music reproduction.
Charles, |
Dracule1,
What George will attempt to do is match the Elrogs to the operation points of a particular amplifier. This is done with the cooperation of the Elrog factory. George's tubesusa.com has been mentioned on this thread several times. He has stood behind his customers with strong support.
Snopro(Joe) glad you received your replacement Elrogs. Your Takatsuki-Elrog comparison matches my impression. Both on their own merit are excellent. Hard to believe but the Elrog is more natural and musical than the superb Takatsuki in my system (that's some feat!).
Charles, |
Dracule1,
By all reports the Lampizator Golden Gate is a top tier DAC. I hope the Elrogs work out for you in this application and that there are no hum issues due to the GG's AC heating design. |
Hi Germanboxers,
Our paths cross again LOL. We seem to have similar taste, this time the Elrogs. I didn't know you had the Lampizator Big 7 DAC. I thought you were using the Luxman DA-06 DAC. I suspect you'll love the Golden Gate, congratulations. You say the Elrog 300b was spectacular in your Audion Golden Dream PSET, I believe you my friend.
Charles, |
Hi Jordan,
I think your Audion Golden Dreams would be a very tough act to follow. I understand your curiosity regarding the Lampizator 211 amplifiers, there's so much stellar audio choices available to tempt folks these days. I can imagine how much music listening enjoyment you're experiencing.
Charles, |
Dracule1,
I hope the Elrogs serve you well. |
Dracule1,
If it turns out that you like the Elrogs in your DAC then it's money well spent. These tubes are expensive.However operating in a DAC circuit should mean low tube stress and very long life. |
Dracule1,
In my case the Elrogs were very good straight out of the box( and just continued to improve). I'd say broken in by 40 to 50 hours. I use them in a power amplifier and you have them in a DAC, not sure if that is a factor. |
The Elrogs in my amplifier are a smashing success. This solidifies my decision to keep these amplifiers the rest of my life. A premium 300b tube in an excellent designed /implemented amplifier just hit the right spot for my needs. Its has been 6 years of beautiful contentment listening to music. At some point I may replace the original Coincident power cords, That's about it. Elrog,Takatsuki or EML XLS are all worth their cost in a good 300b amplifier. Elrog leads this stellar group of tubes for my taste.
Charles. |
Dracule1,
Just goes to show that no product ever gets complete unanimous positive opinions/impressions. Variables and individual ears won't allow it to be. Sorry they didn't work out for you as they have for most of us posting here. I know I've raved about them, that being my honest experience with Elrog.
Charles, |
Hi Al,
Good point, but interestingly Wyan001 and Germanboxers use the same DAC with superb results. Could system synergy partially explain it? |
Stefan,
So far my replacement Elrogs are working fine(few months) in my amplifier. More time is needed to make any declarations regarding longevity/reliability. I'm hopeful. |
Dracule1,
I'm glad that you are able to finally appreciate the excellence of these Elrog tubes. |
Bill,
Take the cost of the Elrog and your Frankenstein amp.' With that sum what
could you purchase that will better what you are hearing now? We are not
crazy. You can spend much more and have a far more mechanical or
electronic character. Bill your money was Very wisely
spent😄😄
Charles, |
I listened to my new Elrog 300b today and I'll get to the point, this is a new standard of excellence for me. It does not blow away, embarrass or cause jaws dropping to the floor compared to Takatsuki and the EML XLS. No hyperbole is necessary as I feel these two 300bs are true reference quality and have bettered every other 300b I've tried. In terms of bass and dynamic ability the Elrog equals but doesn't surpass either(at least at this early stage).
The strength of the TAK and EML are balanced sound top to bottom, realistic, honest tone and timbre of instruments and voice. Comparing these to each other, the TAK just a "bit" more organic and refined. EML a "bit" more robust with authority particularly with larger scale music, but overall both are top tier in my amplifier.Just below these two are the AVVT 32B SL, Sophia RP and the KR 300b XLS.
The Elrog moves ahead in providing superior resolution,clarity of the nuances and low level information. This is a feat because the TAK/EML excel in this area. Elrog takes it further and has more presence and 'feel' factor. The sense of living humans singing and playing real instruments is first rate. Again a compliment considering how high a standard the other two set in this regard.
The breath of life factor is higher with the Elrog, you just hear and are aware of the tactile presence of instrumental energy. The air in the room seems to vibrate and is charged with natural sound about you. The Elrog offers more tonal and color/harmonic saturation closer to what you'd experience in a live setting. This is for me very impressive given the stout competition and quality of the two other reference tubes.
For my fellow 300b amp brothers, the Elrog is an absolutely superb tube if the objective is natural sound and increased realism. It moves a small but definite step beyond my two references but is not a "night and day" difference. All three of them will provide wonderful sound and enhance music loving involvement. If I could only choose one, the Elrog leads this stellar trio. I wonder how much impact the particular amplifier has on tube preference. I can only speak for results with my Coincident Frankenstein SET amp.
Charles, |
Bill,
How much improvement did you notice with your Elrogs as you accumulated more hours on them? They are so good with only a few hours(24 hour factory burn in). Bill, I can honestly say this tube in the Frankenstein is a stunningly good match. I am sure the same is true of other high quality 300b amplifiers as well. Given the pure satisfaction I have with the EML and Takatsuki(again better than everything else other than the Elrog) I wasn't sure of what to expect.
The Elrog has a lower amplifying factor and actually has a lower maximum power output than other 300bs, but it counters with 'higher current' delivery. Based on what I'm hearing, the current must be more significant than output power capability (at least in this case). The sound is "more" alive,vibrant, energetic and saturated not less. The music opens up, blooms, breaths and there's increased ambiance awareness and communication.
I don't know how much of what I am hearing has to do with thoriated tungsten filaments. I'll say this, they sure aren't hurting the sound. Based on my listening I can't imagine how any music lover wouldn't fall for this tube in a good SET amplifier. I'm still surprised the Elrog has more resolution/transparency than the superb Takatsuki, it was the king in this respect(with EML a close second). Once again, the 3 dimensional density and human presence factor is just special. Jazz drummers if well recorded have wonderful snap,impact and authenticity. These tubes absolutely increase the startle factor.
Charles, |
Cal3713,
The Mullard GZ37 is a simple plug in and play replacement rectifier tube. Cal, I tried to emphasize while conveying my Elrog description that the EML XLS and Takatsuki are still excellent choices. It's not as though I didn't enjoy listening until the Elrog came along(far from it). Believe me those two tubes will be an asset for any 300b amp owner. Please don't get the impression that a used EML wouldn't be an exceptionally good move.That's why I attempted to avoid hyperbole and risk going overboard with the comparisons/contrasts of these 3 top level tubes.
The Elrog does advance some attributes of the other two, Overall it is the best sounding of the 3 tubes by a modest but noticeable degree. that modest gap is worthy of recognition considering the stiff competition. The Takatsuki and EML were by no means "blown away". At some point you rank top tier items(all three tubes in this case)and the Elrog is my top choice.
Given a person's particular listening values and different system and or amplifier, someone else could possibly prefer a 300b other than the Elrog (even if that puts them in the minority). Cal, if your hearing/listening criteria are similar to mine you'll appreciate the 3 tubes under discussion but ultimately choose the Elrog.
Charles, |
Dmarkov,
In terms of specs (filament current and voltage) the Elrog is a drop in replacement. In terms of "sonically" matching, this will be an individual determination (as it should be). As with recommeations I've made to you and anyone else, they're all based on my listening and specific taste/preference. I'm happy to hear that my previous recommendations to you have been very helpful.
Charles, |
Hello Ddriveman,
I haven't had the opportunity to hear the"vintage" Western Electric 300b, Only the later era reissue version. I didn't like the W.E. reissue 300b in my amplifier. The EML XLS and Takatsuki were much better sounding in my system. The Elrog ER 300b is ridiculously excellent sounding in my amplifier. It preserves so much of the heart and soul of music, it's very humanistic if that makes any sense to you.
Charles, |
Hi Bill,
You should without question remain in your current "happy place". My only point in bringing up this issue was to illustrate how you can sometimes disagree with people whose ears you most often agree with. Subjectivity being what it is, at the end of the day you have to trust what you hear and just go with it, this is something I know we both do with confidence.In all honesty I have yet to come across any audio component, part or accessory where they will be 100% unanimous agreement, it just doesn't happen.this is interesting to me from this perspective. I truly find the Elrog a superior output tube even compare to other tubes I had considered to be excellent.
Charles |
Update,
I was deep in emotional musical bliss the other night when I suddenly lost sound in my right channel. No smoke,noise or drama, just no sound. I swapped the Elrogs left to right and there was no left channel sound. So one of the Elrogs failed. I spoke with George Lenz at tubesusa.com. The Elrogs are within their 6 month warranty period.George was very responsive(as he's been in the past). I'll return the tubes tomorrow and wait for the replacements.
Well stuff happens. I had to replace my original pair of Takatsuki after about 1 year(they have a 2 year warranty). Takatsuki said my case was very rare. I hope this is just an aberration and the replacement Elrogs are reliable. This tube is simply fabulous to listen to. I haven't lost faith. In the meanwhile I'll enjoy my warhorse EML XLS. It's a change from sublime to "merely" excellent sound.As a tube amplifier lover for 2 decades these type of episodes have been rare thankfully. Until I find a transistor amp that equals my SET experience I'm staying put and accept the fact that nothing is perfect.
Charles, |
Matthias,
Thanks for your contribution. Goerge Lenz of tubesusa.com called me today and gave me this explanation.I'm somewhat confused as Coincident president Israel Blume says the Frankenstein has a conservative design and is easy on the 300b tube. I'm no engineer and I accept what he said.My EML XLS seem to be doing fine with tthis amp(so far,2.5 years).
But again that's a different tube design.If a simple resistor change solves the problem that's good news(assuming there are no adverse effects of doing so).
George mentioned that there are plans to "tweak/modify" yhe Elrog to improve compatibility with certain amplifiers such as Coincident. Matthias the Elrog ER 300b sounds simply terrific in this amplifier, so congratulations! I sure hope the issue can be successfully resolved. The discrepancy between you and Israel Blume puzzles me(it's either tough or easy on the 300b).
Best Regards,
Charles, |
Based on my experience with 2 different pairs of Elrog ER 300bs, break-in is fairly rapid. In my system they were indeed excellent brand new. I'd say 50 hours and they're pretty much burned in. Joe(Snowpro) yes, as excellent as the Takatsuki sounds, the Elrog is fuller and has superior harmonic and tonal richness. The preference could certainly vary I imagine in a different amplifier/system.
Charles, |
Brownsfan, Drdavid, Scifi or Snowpro, have you Frank owners had early tube failure issues? |
Brief update,
So far,so good with my replacement Elrog 300bs. Dracule1, I also wish these tubes weren't so expensive so that more people could enjoy them. They are truly sublime in my amp/system. They simply make music. |
Hi Joe (Snowpro),
I have to confess, the more I listen to the Elrogs the more I'm in near awe in what they offer. If they prove to be reliable and durable I'll consider them one of my best audio purchases ever. For people who own a high quality 300b amplifier and cherish natural/organic realism of sound, this is your tube. Music is so alive, present and engaging emotionally with these tubes in use. Honestly striking in my system. It's very difficult to bring a listening session to a close. Matthias, you and your colleagues did a fabulous job with these tubes. Thanks. |
Scifi and Mike,
This is exacly why I always mention/address reliability when discussing the Elrog ER 300b. Scifi, Snowpro, Brownsfan own the same amp as I do and are hearing the same results. The same seems the case for Lampizator Big 7 and Golden Gate DAC owners as well. If the Elrog engineers have corrected the failure issue then a superb tube is available for us to treasure.
Scifi, I wish you the very best outcome with your replacement Elrogs. You are right, the sound isn't quite the same without these tubes in use. I'll continue to post periodic updates on my Elrog 300b replacement tube experiences. I feel like a guinea pig(early adopter)) in regards to these new products, but that's my willing choice. |
Scifi,
I've read nothing but high praise concerning the Joules OTL sound quality. I assume your speakers are pretty efficient if you're able to use the much lower power Frankenstein MK II SET. |
Hi Scifi,
I agree 100% with your comments concerning Georgr Lenz.
Funny you mention Audio Kinesis speakers. Before settling on Coincident speakers I had seriously considered the Audio Kinesis Jazz Module speaker(92 db and 16 ohm load). Others that interested me were Horning,Ocellia and Tonian Labs Classic 12.1. I've always been very impressed with Duke Lejeune's contributions and demeanor on this site. He comes across as someone with class and integrity, which you've confirmed. No doubt his speaker is excellent in your system and mates beautifully with the Frankenstein amplifier. Scifi, lets hope our replacement Elrogs withstand the test of time.
Charles, |
Hi Scifi,
It is a terrific Line Stage, every bit as good as the Frankenstein. You can email me for more detail if you'd like.
Charles, |
Ddriveman,
It would be fascinating to compare the effects of the Elrog in your 300 SET and Berning 300b ZOTL Siegfried amplifiers, very curious about that outcome. Could be something very special. |
Hi Wjt2005, I wonder if this problem was unique to your particular Frankenstein? I've owned mine for over 6 years and haven't experienced this issue(except for the original Elrogs). I can't speak for other Frankenstein MK II owners but I haven't seen feedback suggesting it's a common problem. It's certainly possible other Franks owners may share your same problem. |
Well the fact that I haven't had the same tube failures with the same amplifier would suggest it isn't every Frankenstein amp. All I'm saying is how widespread might this issue be? 10,35 or 80% of all Franks? I don't know. |
Maybe other Frankenstein MK II owners will share their experiences. I can only comment on my 6 years of ownership and I haven't had these premature tube failures. AVVT SL 32, EML, Takatsuki and Shuguang Black treasure. I've used these 4 different tubes long term(more than 3 years) without any failure issues. So far the replacement Elrogs are doing fine.
So for whatever reason there may be, my outcome isn't the same as yours or Jac's experience. |
So this is my point, not everyone has had early 300b
tube failure with the Frankenstein MK II. The question is how often is this problem occurring and what % of amplifiers are affected?
Markus I'm glad you are having the same wonderful Franks with Elrog tubes result as I am.
Chris, I am happy the Franks have worked out so well in your system. Wow! its been a year for you already? |
Scifi,
That's quite a compliment for the Frankenstein considering your coming off recent ownership of the highly esteemed Joule OTL amplifiers. Increased music listening engagement is the Frankenstein's best attribute in my opinion.
Charles, |
Mike,
It is interesting that the superb sonic characteristics of the Elrog ER 300b is consistent regardless of their use in a DAC or power amplifier. Your listening impressions very closely matches what I hear with them placed in my SET amplifier. I hope you get many years of listening joy from them.
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